View Poll Results: Have you had problems with your stock rod bolts?
I spin my '99 or older LS1 to 6400+ on stock rod bolts
50
39.37%
I used to spin my '99 or older LS1 to 6400+ on stock rod bolts, until a rod bolt let go
4
3.15%
I spin my '00+ LS1/LS6 to 6400+ on stock rod bolts.
71
55.91%
I used to spin my 00+ LS1/LS6 to 6400+ on stock rod bolts, until a rod bolt let go
2
1.57%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Who's had stock rod bolts fail
06-29-2008, 04:42 PM
#1
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Poll: Who's had stock rod bolts fail I'm seriously considering swapping rod bolts on my 99 C5 since I already have the transaxle out, and am planning on doing a H/C swap as well... I figure at this point it wouldn't be that much more work just to pull the motor and swap the rod bolts with the motor out of the car (and do the H/C with the motor on a stand).
I'm just curious how many guys that spin their motors pretty high have actually had their rod bolts fail on them, so answer the poll if it applies to you.
I'm just curious how many guys that spin their motors pretty high have actually had their rod bolts fail on them, so answer the poll if it applies to you.
06-29-2008, 06:55 PM
#5
On The Tree
for those of you spinning bearings.. im curious..
did you replace one bolt at a time and retorque it, or remove the cap, swap the bolts and then torque both bolts in steps back to spec?
i see a few writeups people swapping and then torqing one bolt at a time, and that just doesnt seem right to me. i've been building engines since i was 13, and ill be damned if im going to torque half a cap at a time
did you replace one bolt at a time and retorque it, or remove the cap, swap the bolts and then torque both bolts in steps back to spec?
i see a few writeups people swapping and then torqing one bolt at a time, and that just doesnt seem right to me. i've been building engines since i was 13, and ill be damned if im going to torque half a cap at a time
06-29-2008, 07:19 PM
#6
for those of you spinning bearings.. im curious..
did you replace one bolt at a time and retorque it, or remove the cap, swap the bolts and then torque both bolts in steps back to spec?
i see a few writeups people swapping and then torqing one bolt at a time, and that just doesnt seem right to me. i've been building engines since i was 13, and ill be damned if im going to torque half a cap at a time
did you replace one bolt at a time and retorque it, or remove the cap, swap the bolts and then torque both bolts in steps back to spec?
i see a few writeups people swapping and then torqing one bolt at a time, and that just doesnt seem right to me. i've been building engines since i was 13, and ill be damned if im going to torque half a cap at a time
06-29-2008, 07:45 PM
#7
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I had my katechs put in along with clevite bearings last year..Its been runnin fine;also in feb I put in a bigger cam and strapped it on the dyno and no problems either
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06-29-2008, 09:36 PM
#8
On The Tree
well.. one of the engines i built in highschool... the stroked FE in my sig. We got some mismatched rocker arm to pushrod ball and socket from crane when we ordered a custom setup.. they misread my order card and eventually reimbursed me after some nasty emails.. but anyway it circulated some metal through the engine.. so.. being the obsessive individual that i am.. i swapped the rod AND main bearings out, motor still installed. i just pulled the pan and did it.. no issues whatsoever, i put 30K hard miles on that truck since with no failure or change in oil pressure.. then again that rotating assembly is spectacular.. it was robbed from a mid 70's 427 that saw nascar duty. neat stuff.
instance II small block ford 332ci with about 16lbs from a vortech on pump gas, guy blew a headgasket didnt realize it, lots of water in oil and run for too long that way. same song and dance, dropped the pan, replaced the bearings because it was a $8,000 engine in parts alone, (aftermarket block, billet rotating assembly) and i wasnt about to let it go south on my watch being as i built it. replaced the bearings in the car (after dropping the k member) no issues from that either. but in neither instance did i replace the rod hardware. to date thats the highest profile engine i've built.. im not warren johnson or anything, but ive got a few under my belt pulling 600rwhp duty to this day
on top of that i wouldnt be surprised if the new hardware is flexing the rod and cap slightly different from where they were machined to begin with, possibly causing an issue.
as far as removing the bearing from the saddle.. i dont see the big deal, its not like they are glued in or anything, you just slide em in on a CLEAN backing(mating surface of either cap or rod) free of oil and any kind of debris and tighten em up
i feel like my discussions is related but really and truly off topic so i wont pollute this thread any further with my comments. also i have zero experience with swapping the ls1 hardware so ill check in later to see what those who actually do have to say.
instance II small block ford 332ci with about 16lbs from a vortech on pump gas, guy blew a headgasket didnt realize it, lots of water in oil and run for too long that way. same song and dance, dropped the pan, replaced the bearings because it was a $8,000 engine in parts alone, (aftermarket block, billet rotating assembly) and i wasnt about to let it go south on my watch being as i built it. replaced the bearings in the car (after dropping the k member) no issues from that either. but in neither instance did i replace the rod hardware. to date thats the highest profile engine i've built.. im not warren johnson or anything, but ive got a few under my belt pulling 600rwhp duty to this day
on top of that i wouldnt be surprised if the new hardware is flexing the rod and cap slightly different from where they were machined to begin with, possibly causing an issue.
as far as removing the bearing from the saddle.. i dont see the big deal, its not like they are glued in or anything, you just slide em in on a CLEAN backing(mating surface of either cap or rod) free of oil and any kind of debris and tighten em up
i feel like my discussions is related but really and truly off topic so i wont pollute this thread any further with my comments. also i have zero experience with swapping the ls1 hardware so ill check in later to see what those who actually do have to say.
06-29-2008, 10:08 PM
#9
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I just replaced my rodbolts with Katech's. Did them one bolt at a time time will tell. FWIW I spun this motor to 6800 on the stock rodbolts and did not want to tempt fate. If a stock bolt lets go there's alot of $ in potential damage.
06-30-2008, 09:02 AM
#10
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Yeah, from what I've read Katech's are the way to go if you're swapping the bolts without taking the rods to a machine shop.
I just want to see how necessary new rod bolts really are... everybody on the internet says the stock rod bolts are weak and need to be replaced if you plan to rev the motor, but I've never personally seen a catastrophic failure from a stock rod bolt.
So far it looks like nobody in the poll has had it happen to them either.
I just want to see how necessary new rod bolts really are... everybody on the internet says the stock rod bolts are weak and need to be replaced if you plan to rev the motor, but I've never personally seen a catastrophic failure from a stock rod bolt.
So far it looks like nobody in the poll has had it happen to them either.
06-30-2008, 05:16 PM
#12
I've been spinning my un-touched 02 bottom end to around 6800-6899, with the limiter set to 7100 for almost 2 yrs and about 13k. I have my shift light set to 6700 and I can tag the next gear in less than 200 additional rpms. I only have my limiter set that high because I was trying diff shift points right after getting the heads/cam in, and wanted to see where it liked to be shifted. It was the best for my setup having the light set to 6700. I have HP Tuners on the way, and will drop it down to 6900 when it comes in.
I keep a check on my oil level, and keep it topped off if it moves even one cross-hatch on the dip stick. I also use good oil and I don't run it for rediculously long intervals. I often wonder how many people that spin bearings were low on oil then, or at some point in time. We all know the LS1 likes to use a little oil, some more than others, so if you run the **** outta it, you better keep it's life blood full, and clean.
I keep a check on my oil level, and keep it topped off if it moves even one cross-hatch on the dip stick. I also use good oil and I don't run it for rediculously long intervals. I often wonder how many people that spin bearings were low on oil then, or at some point in time. We all know the LS1 likes to use a little oil, some more than others, so if you run the **** outta it, you better keep it's life blood full, and clean.
06-30-2008, 05:39 PM
#13
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I keep a check on my oil level, and keep it topped off if it moves even one cross-hatch on the dip stick. I also use good oil and I don't run it for rediculously long intervals. I often wonder how many people that spin bearings were low on oil then, or at some point in time. We all know the LS1 likes to use a little oil, some more than others, so if you run the **** outta it, you better keep it's life blood full, and clean.
That's a good point you brought up. I'm the same way with my oil. Mobil 1, I check it almost every time I go out. It's cheap piece of mind and extra insurance for your engine.
FYI I changed my stockers out with ARP Pro Series bolts last winter when I did my cam. Works fine.
06-30-2008, 06:38 PM
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well no **** I've been spinning my un-touched 02 bottom end to around 6800-6899, with the limiter set to 7100 for almost 2 yrs and about 13k. I have my shift light set to 6700 and I can tag the next gear in less than 200 additional rpms. I only have my limiter set that high because I was trying diff shift points right after getting the heads/cam in, and wanted to see where it liked to be shifted. It was the best for my setup having the light set to 6700. I have HP Tuners on the way, and will drop it down to 6900 when it comes in.
I keep a check on my oil level, and keep it topped off if it moves even one cross-hatch on the dip stick. I also use good oil and I don't run it for rediculously long intervals. I often wonder how many people that spin bearings were low on oil then, or at some point in time. We all know the LS1 likes to use a little oil, some more than others, so if you run the **** outta it, you better keep it's life blood full, and clean.
I keep a check on my oil level, and keep it topped off if it moves even one cross-hatch on the dip stick. I also use good oil and I don't run it for rediculously long intervals. I often wonder how many people that spin bearings were low on oil then, or at some point in time. We all know the LS1 likes to use a little oil, some more than others, so if you run the **** outta it, you better keep it's life blood full, and clean.
FWIW I done arp pro rod bolts when i done the first cam last year..also put new clevite bearings in.....beat the **** out of it all of last summer no problems.....
07-01-2008, 12:40 PM
#16
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FWIW, I've been spinning my 98 up to 7k for the past year and no problems. This is a stock short block with heads, cam, intake, exhaust and 89,000 on the clock.
08-07-2008, 09:37 PM
#17
friend of mine has a 02 ws6 6 speed. he owned since new and has put around 45,000 miles on the motor. he installed 12 bolt, bolt ons, 231-237 cam, patriot stage 2 heads back in 2005. he beat the living **** out of this car. he reved it 7k like it was it's job. he ran cosistant 11 sec passes on. finally last year, a small peice of the piston come apart. it didn't hurt anything but it just had blowby. he never touched his rod bolts. he just changed the oil every 2500 miles and made sure the level was topped off. he does have a ls6 block
08-08-2008, 03:07 AM
#18
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spun a bearing on my 99 ws6 (same rod bolts as your c5) on the second dyno pull after H/C. IMO, you should replace the bolts (i went ARP, but katechs work well too) and add fresh bearings when doing a H/C swap. Hell, they are so damn cheap compared to rebuilding the entire motor (trust me, i know)!
08-08-2008, 07:54 AM
#19
A buddy of mines 99 ws6 has H/C and a 150 shot and he revs it 7000 on the stock bottom half and it has 94000 miles. He bought the car with 52000 miles and the H/C went on soon after. He drives it like he stole it and it runs 10.50's. No rod bolt failure but he did have a lifter failure
08-08-2008, 08:32 AM
#20
TECH Enthusiast
I CAN'T BELIEVE people are just slapping rod bolts in the stock rods without resizing the big end of the rods....No way that sh*t is gonna keep the bearing clearances right... Not to mention the balance of the rod.
My car is a 99 with the stock bottom end(incl. rod bolts) and the limiter is set at 6800rpm, I shift it at 6500-6600 spraying a 150 shot and never had a problem. Not saying that it won't blow tomorrow....but I am not gonna create a problem until there is one. My car has 38k miles, gets full synthetic changed every 2000-2500 miles...
IMOP, you are asking for more trouble just slapping bolts in the stock rods without pulling them and resizing....
My car is a 99 with the stock bottom end(incl. rod bolts) and the limiter is set at 6800rpm, I shift it at 6500-6600 spraying a 150 shot and never had a problem. Not saying that it won't blow tomorrow....but I am not gonna create a problem until there is one. My car has 38k miles, gets full synthetic changed every 2000-2500 miles...
IMOP, you are asking for more trouble just slapping bolts in the stock rods without pulling them and resizing....