Anyone using total seal rings w/ chromoly top ring?
07-08-2008, 02:33 PM
#1
Anyone using total seal rings w/ chromoly top ring? Looking for someone that has experienced using Total Seal brand, file to fit rings with a chromoly top ring in a boosted application. A chromoly top ring is supposedly used in higher compression boosted motors.
In particular, did you experience any trouble getting them to seat? If so, how long did it take? I have heard it takes longer then normal, and should use conventional oil to better seat them.
Let me know the pros or cons.
Anyone?
In particular, did you experience any trouble getting them to seat? If so, how long did it take? I have heard it takes longer then normal, and should use conventional oil to better seat them.
Let me know the pros or cons.
Anyone?
07-09-2008, 12:32 PM
#4
9 Second Club
Im using Total Seal rings. Gapless top, conventional second.
Cant recall the material, but the top is not stainless.
After previous blowby issues relating to lack of bore prep. Im amazed at how little blowby these rings have. Virtually none !!!! breather cans stay clean at all times
Cant recall the material, but the top is not stainless.
After previous blowby issues relating to lack of bore prep. Im amazed at how little blowby these rings have. Virtually none !!!! breather cans stay clean at all times
07-09-2008, 09:13 PM
#6
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I am using that exact set up - 2000 miles on motor and still having trouble getting them to seat totally - complete break in done on Rotella T 10W 40 so far - not that happy - Total seal website says 2000-3000 miles.
Maybe it was my break in procedure - but you know how that goes, like other things - everyone has an opinion on the right break in procedure:
-started and varied rpm 1500 - 2500 rpm for 20 mins
-drove for 200 miles at 3500 rpm or less - stop and go, around town driving - no extended idling periods
-then finished tune and did multiple WOT runs, at normal heat temp (185ish).
I have driven normally from 200-2000 miles - multiple WOT runs, getting on it around town - having fun with car - breaking it in like I plan to drive it.
I hope they totally seat soon - I am starting to get worried.
Maybe it was my break in procedure - but you know how that goes, like other things - everyone has an opinion on the right break in procedure:
-started and varied rpm 1500 - 2500 rpm for 20 mins
-drove for 200 miles at 3500 rpm or less - stop and go, around town driving - no extended idling periods
-then finished tune and did multiple WOT runs, at normal heat temp (185ish).
I have driven normally from 200-2000 miles - multiple WOT runs, getting on it around town - having fun with car - breaking it in like I plan to drive it.
I hope they totally seat soon - I am starting to get worried.
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07-10-2008, 11:40 AM
#8
i always wondered about gapless or total seal rings.....say you would have some blowby on a regular ring set,fine,you make a little less power and may have to change the oil more often etc.But on a gapless setup you wouldnt have the blowby,but it would put more force on the rings and would seem to be more likely to lift them.At least thats how it sounds in my head,but what do i know.
07-10-2008, 11:49 AM
#9
All I know is the new GM block was hones to match the pistons, all done by a long term reputable machine shop.
The issue is, just making sure that the correct rings were chosen. And it looks like they were. Just need to change to dyno oil and drive it more to seat them.
These are not gapless rings, but file to fit.
The issue is, just making sure that the correct rings were chosen. And it looks like they were. Just need to change to dyno oil and drive it more to seat them.
i always wondered about gapless or total seal rings.....say you would have some blowby on a regular ring set,fine,you make a little less power and may have to change the oil more often etc.But on a gapless setup you wouldnt have the blowby,but it would put more force on the rings and would seem to be more likely to lift them.At least thats how it sounds in my head,but what do i know.
07-10-2008, 01:20 PM
#12
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Total seals make both gapless top and second rings and conventional.
With the gapless, people that have used them with boost, the rings wound up lifting off the seat and creating major blowby. From what I have found out they are not worth it. The gap in the conventional rings is very minute.
With the gapless, people that have used them with boost, the rings wound up lifting off the seat and creating major blowby. From what I have found out they are not worth it. The gap in the conventional rings is very minute.
07-10-2008, 01:22 PM
#13
9 Second Club
Lifting off what seat ?
So far Ive been using mine for about 4 months. Virtually zero blowby. After my initial sealing problems that were down to bore prep ( or lack of ), I am very impressed with them.
So far Ive been using mine for about 4 months. Virtually zero blowby. After my initial sealing problems that were down to bore prep ( or lack of ), I am very impressed with them.
07-10-2008, 04:36 PM
#15
9 Second Club
How can they lift off ?
Ive used a few sets...had 2 good experiences, and 2 bad.
The bad are down to my own fault.
First time was a gapless top in stainless, and conventional 2nd ring. I used these honed, but defo not round bores. I had no time to bed them in, as I literally built the engine, and was going racing a couple of days later, so it was flat out within 20-30 miles.
Despite the poor bore condition, there was very little blowby, and the 346 actually ran very well, covering about 1000 miles, some 30+ passes and a standing mile pass all without any problems whatsoever.
The next set with new pistons and new +0.005" bore....well, I blew the crap outta them and the pistons lol. So cant really fault the rings.
Next set was stainless gapped top ring........I did not prep the bore after the previous destruction, as there was only 500 miles on the bores.
big mistake, lots of blowby.
Quick hone with a ball flex tool, and new gapless moly top ring etc, and virtually zero blowby. My current rings are working far better than anything Ive used to date.
Ive used a few sets...had 2 good experiences, and 2 bad.
The bad are down to my own fault.
First time was a gapless top in stainless, and conventional 2nd ring. I used these honed, but defo not round bores. I had no time to bed them in, as I literally built the engine, and was going racing a couple of days later, so it was flat out within 20-30 miles.
Despite the poor bore condition, there was very little blowby, and the 346 actually ran very well, covering about 1000 miles, some 30+ passes and a standing mile pass all without any problems whatsoever.
The next set with new pistons and new +0.005" bore....well, I blew the crap outta them and the pistons lol. So cant really fault the rings.
Next set was stainless gapped top ring........I did not prep the bore after the previous destruction, as there was only 500 miles on the bores.
big mistake, lots of blowby.
Quick hone with a ball flex tool, and new gapless moly top ring etc, and virtually zero blowby. My current rings are working far better than anything Ive used to date.
07-10-2008, 08:54 PM
#16
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i've been running the total seal stainless top ring in all of our fi applications with no problem-alot of guys were having problems with the top ring fluttering with the gapless rings in fi applications
