C6 Z06 TT, how much power will I make?
08-07-2008, 06:25 PM
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C6 Z06 TT, how much power will I make? Well title says it all, Im kinda confused, and I need a few educated guesses if you guys dont mind.
Parts have been ordered, but I dont want to have high hopes and get low numbers etc...
Set-up is:
C6 Z06
Forged 427 Warhawk (9.0:1 CR) + TTiX @ 17PSI of boost (turbos cannot go further)
Hand ported World Warhawk 6-bolt head (no flow numbers yet)
no cats
Medium size cam (no specs yet)
93 octane fuel, no meth.
1- How much power do you think I could make with 93 octane pump gas
2- How much can you guess that number would change with meth.
3- Finally, using race gas.
Guys, I hope you dont recommend different parts, like AllPro heads, I choose those parts for some reasons.
Parts have been ordered, but I dont want to have high hopes and get low numbers etc...
Set-up is:
C6 Z06
Forged 427 Warhawk (9.0:1 CR) + TTiX @ 17PSI of boost (turbos cannot go further)
Hand ported World Warhawk 6-bolt head (no flow numbers yet)
no cats
Medium size cam (no specs yet)
93 octane fuel, no meth.
1- How much power do you think I could make with 93 octane pump gas
2- How much can you guess that number would change with meth.
3- Finally, using race gas.
Guys, I hope you dont recommend different parts, like AllPro heads, I choose those parts for some reasons.
08-07-2008, 07:05 PM
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Seems that the turbos die out at higher RPMs though I did get a confirmation from TTi that the turbos can hold 18PSI of boost on a 427. Well see what happens, all I could do is sit and pray, oh right and wait
Well are you serious about moving to Dubai? If I would say anything about Dubai id say its heaven on Earth (minus the weather lol)
08-07-2008, 08:33 PM
#6
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What you need to keep in mind when pushing the limits of a fuel (93 octane in this case), is their is always a -possibility- of damaging something. You just need to accept that possibility if you want to run high numbers on pump fuel. When you are making the most possible power on 93 you no longer have any margin for error.
It may be a rare occasion, but in the unlikely event you get a bad tank of fuel with a stock vehicle, you'll likely have some pinging and the ecu will pull timing. If you get a bad tank of fuel with a 1000rwhp car you'll likely severly damage something.
Another factor to consider is liability of the tuner. Finding the true limits of something means breaking it, and I personally do not want to be breaking customers cars on the dyno. I suppose the best thing to do then is set a reasonable, safe goal and creep up to it, watching for knock and reading plugs along the way.
Driving style and understanding the combination goes a long way towards longevity as well. If I personally had a 1000rwhp 93 octane combination I wouldn't start a wide open throttle run at 2,000rpm in 5th gear with the controller set at high boost on a 95 deg day. (though some other person might, and damage the vehicle that would otherwise be -safe- if driven -properly-). Take into consideration ambient conditions, fluid temperatures, driving style, etc, making a conscious effort to not be excessively harsh with overloading the engine and drivetrain.
My general recommendation with this combination is to add race fuel at at 700/750+rwhp levels. Driving around with 700 rwhp on the street is still plenty enough to have fun and if you plan for the times where you think 1000rwhp would be usable (which I too think is possible) then adding race fuel is not much of an inconvinience. Higher #'s on pump gas are certainly possible if you want to accept the risk.
With a build this expensive (or any build for that matter) race fuel at higher horsepower levels is cheap insurance, and one doesn't need to be quite so careful as you will have some margin of safety that is not afforded with 93 octane.
It may be a rare occasion, but in the unlikely event you get a bad tank of fuel with a stock vehicle, you'll likely have some pinging and the ecu will pull timing. If you get a bad tank of fuel with a 1000rwhp car you'll likely severly damage something.
Another factor to consider is liability of the tuner. Finding the true limits of something means breaking it, and I personally do not want to be breaking customers cars on the dyno. I suppose the best thing to do then is set a reasonable, safe goal and creep up to it, watching for knock and reading plugs along the way.
Driving style and understanding the combination goes a long way towards longevity as well. If I personally had a 1000rwhp 93 octane combination I wouldn't start a wide open throttle run at 2,000rpm in 5th gear with the controller set at high boost on a 95 deg day. (though some other person might, and damage the vehicle that would otherwise be -safe- if driven -properly-). Take into consideration ambient conditions, fluid temperatures, driving style, etc, making a conscious effort to not be excessively harsh with overloading the engine and drivetrain.
My general recommendation with this combination is to add race fuel at at 700/750+rwhp levels. Driving around with 700 rwhp on the street is still plenty enough to have fun and if you plan for the times where you think 1000rwhp would be usable (which I too think is possible) then adding race fuel is not much of an inconvinience. Higher #'s on pump gas are certainly possible if you want to accept the risk.
With a build this expensive (or any build for that matter) race fuel at higher horsepower levels is cheap insurance, and one doesn't need to be quite so careful as you will have some margin of safety that is not afforded with 93 octane.
08-07-2008, 09:45 PM
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What you need to keep in mind when pushing the limits of a fuel (93 octane in this case), is their is always a -possibility- of damaging something. You just need to accept that possibility if you want to run high numbers on pump fuel. When you are making the most possible power on 93 you no longer have any margin for error.
It may be a rare occasion, but in the unlikely event you get a bad tank of fuel with a stock vehicle, you'll likely have some pinging and the ecu will pull timing. If you get a bad tank of fuel with a 1000rwhp car you'll likely severly damage something.
Another factor to consider is liability of the tuner. Finding the true limits of something means breaking it, and I personally do not want to be breaking customers cars on the dyno. I suppose the best thing to do then is set a reasonable, safe goal and creep up to it, watching for knock and reading plugs along the way.
Driving style and understanding the combination goes a long way towards longevity as well. If I personally had a 1000rwhp 93 octane combination I wouldn't start a wide open throttle run at 2,000rpm in 5th gear with the controller set at high boost on a 95 deg day. (though some other person might, and damage the vehicle that would otherwise be -safe- if driven -properly-). Take into consideration ambient conditions, fluid temperatures, driving style, etc, making a conscious effort to not be excessively harsh with overloading the engine and drivetrain.
My general recommendation with this combination is to add race fuel at at 700/750+rwhp levels. Driving around with 700 rwhp on the street is still plenty enough to have fun and if you plan for the times where you think 1000rwhp would be usable (which I too think is possible) then adding race fuel is not much of an inconvinience. Higher #'s on pump gas are certainly possible if you want to accept the risk.
With a build this expensive (or any build for that matter) race fuel at higher horsepower levels is cheap insurance, and one doesn't need to be quite so careful as you will have some margin of safety that is not afforded with 93 octane.
It may be a rare occasion, but in the unlikely event you get a bad tank of fuel with a stock vehicle, you'll likely have some pinging and the ecu will pull timing. If you get a bad tank of fuel with a 1000rwhp car you'll likely severly damage something.
Another factor to consider is liability of the tuner. Finding the true limits of something means breaking it, and I personally do not want to be breaking customers cars on the dyno. I suppose the best thing to do then is set a reasonable, safe goal and creep up to it, watching for knock and reading plugs along the way.
Driving style and understanding the combination goes a long way towards longevity as well. If I personally had a 1000rwhp 93 octane combination I wouldn't start a wide open throttle run at 2,000rpm in 5th gear with the controller set at high boost on a 95 deg day. (though some other person might, and damage the vehicle that would otherwise be -safe- if driven -properly-). Take into consideration ambient conditions, fluid temperatures, driving style, etc, making a conscious effort to not be excessively harsh with overloading the engine and drivetrain.
My general recommendation with this combination is to add race fuel at at 700/750+rwhp levels. Driving around with 700 rwhp on the street is still plenty enough to have fun and if you plan for the times where you think 1000rwhp would be usable (which I too think is possible) then adding race fuel is not much of an inconvinience. Higher #'s on pump gas are certainly possible if you want to accept the risk.
With a build this expensive (or any build for that matter) race fuel at higher horsepower levels is cheap insurance, and one doesn't need to be quite so careful as you will have some margin of safety that is not afforded with 93 octane.
Jim, thanks the long explanation that was worth some of your time lol.
Anyways, this is what I want to have:
900rwhp on the street with 93 octane fuel, ill then set the boost controller to NOT produce 900rwhp except at speeds above say (170mph + throttle position above 70%), how often will I be going there? 0.0001% of the cars life. The rest of the time, this thing will be programmed to run lower boost settings.
Also, ill make sure I do a very safe timing vs IAT retard to make sure that even if I do something foolish the ECM will compensate by pulling out timing and thus power etc...
Then ill simply use race fuel for the crazy moments
so do you guys think 900rwhp @ 93octane is possible to be acheived with a 9.0:1 CR 427 + 15PSI of boost?
Thats the main question
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08-07-2008, 09:52 PM
#8
Very well said Jim.
Ayousef WELCOME to LS1TECH I always enjoyed your posts at Corvette Forum.
Hello from K.S.A Jeddah.
So Dubai is hot as hell like Jeddah Huh???
Good luck with the new setup man 850+rwhp wont be a problem with 93octane and crappy wheather.
Ayousef WELCOME to LS1TECH I always enjoyed your posts at Corvette Forum.
Hello from K.S.A Jeddah.
So Dubai is hot as hell like Jeddah Huh???
Good luck with the new setup man 850+rwhp wont be a problem with 93octane and crappy wheather.
08-07-2008, 10:06 PM
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hahaBro my CF threads are so typical
btw, a friend of mine is also doing a similar build in Saudia, that guy is shooting for even more HP with an LSX block and the new Z06 STS kit!
08-07-2008, 10:12 PM
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http://www.turbotechnologyinc.com/site/?page_id=320
here is the kit
08-08-2008, 02:16 AM
#12
just for ref a gusy with a C5 with STS, forged C5R block, GT35R turbos, etc made 1000rwhp on pump fuel. its def dowwn to the tuner. make sure the people you use know what they are doing and know what you want. safety first! 
hope the build gose well. 1000bhp seems a little old hat on here now! lol
Chris.
hope the build gose well. 1000bhp seems a little old hat on here now! lol
Chris.
08-08-2008, 02:21 AM
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just for ref a gusy with a C5 with STS, forged C5R block, GT35R turbos, etc made 1000rwhp on pump fuel. its def dowwn to the tuner. make sure the people you use know what they are doing and know what you want. safety first!
hope the build gose well. 1000bhp seems a little old hat on here now! lol
Chris.
hope the build gose well. 1000bhp seems a little old hat on here now! lol
Chris.
I have all the chunk needed to handle that power, however my turbos are the limitation, and upgrading is not an option right now, I just ordered the kit etc... 
08-08-2008, 03:55 PM
#15
Let's break down what you are asking for a second. 900rwhp on 93 octane is possible with your setup using a good tuner. I have been to Dubai, Bahran, Qatar, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. I dont know any tuner that would want to risk tuning your car to make 900rwhp on 93 octane with the ambient temps in your area. Even at night it is hotter than most places on earth. Now unless you are only planning on pushing the car during the SHORT winter time you guys have I suggest you re-think. I say forget all about 900rwhp and 93 octane and run 100 octane and above with anything over 750rwhp. You obviously have money. Put your one hundred 55 gallon 100 octane or C16 drums order in and call it a day. Trying to skimp on what you need makes no sense. So what if someone else has done it with a Viper in your area. You dont have a Viper.
Also, what is this setting the boost controller up to "NOT produce 900rwhp except at speeds above say (170mph+ throttle position above 70%)?"
You cant remotely be serious!! If you think by 170mph your IAT's wont be high you are mistaken and you said something about safe timing? You wont get 900rwhp on 93 octane in 110 plus degree weather on safe timing.
Also, what is this setting the boost controller up to "NOT produce 900rwhp except at speeds above say (170mph+ throttle position above 70%)?"
You cant remotely be serious!! If you think by 170mph your IAT's wont be high you are mistaken and you said something about safe timing? You wont get 900rwhp on 93 octane in 110 plus degree weather on safe timing.
Jim, thanks the long explanation that was worth some of your time lol.
Anyways, this is what I want to have:
900rwhp on the street with 93 octane fuel, ill then set the boost controller to NOT produce 900rwhp except at speeds above say (170mph + throttle position above 70%), how often will I be going there? 0.0001% of the cars life. The rest of the time, this thing will be programmed to run lower boost settings.
Also, ill make sure I do a very safe timing vs IAT retard to make sure that even if I do something foolish the ECM will compensate by pulling out timing and thus power etc...
Then ill simply use race fuel for the crazy moments
so do you guys think 900rwhp @ 93octane is possible to be acheived with a 9.0:1 CR 427 + 15PSI of boost?
Thats the main question
Anyways, this is what I want to have:
900rwhp on the street with 93 octane fuel, ill then set the boost controller to NOT produce 900rwhp except at speeds above say (170mph + throttle position above 70%), how often will I be going there? 0.0001% of the cars life. The rest of the time, this thing will be programmed to run lower boost settings.
Also, ill make sure I do a very safe timing vs IAT retard to make sure that even if I do something foolish the ECM will compensate by pulling out timing and thus power etc...
Then ill simply use race fuel for the crazy moments
so do you guys think 900rwhp @ 93octane is possible to be acheived with a 9.0:1 CR 427 + 15PSI of boost?
Thats the main question
08-08-2008, 04:52 PM
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Vince,
I got the same turbos that you have the T3/T4 .81 a/r, any idea when theyll give up?
Well, what I meant about the boost by speed is my car will see very low boost for 99.9% of its life, and when I do want to go above 170mph (which is when the car will see full boost) ill just fill it up with same race fuel, or high-octane additive
Also what I meant about safe timing is:
Ill make sure to have the ECU pull timing based on coolant temps or IAT, so if I was running 10* advance to develop 900rwhp @ 95 degrees IAT, ill make sure the ecu pulls out a few degrees of timing if the IAT went above 100 etc... That sort of thing.
Ill make sure I add meth injection down the line, before winter is up too, also take into consideration that I am a very careful person, I always have my eyes on the ambient temps, coolant, oil, and now IATs.
I got the same turbos that you have the T3/T4 .81 a/r, any idea when theyll give up?
Well, what I meant about the boost by speed is my car will see very low boost for 99.9% of its life, and when I do want to go above 170mph (which is when the car will see full boost) ill just fill it up with same race fuel, or high-octane additive
Also what I meant about safe timing is:
Ill make sure to have the ECU pull timing based on coolant temps or IAT, so if I was running 10* advance to develop 900rwhp @ 95 degrees IAT, ill make sure the ecu pulls out a few degrees of timing if the IAT went above 100 etc... That sort of thing.
Ill make sure I add meth injection down the line, before winter is up too, also take into consideration that I am a very careful person, I always have my eyes on the ambient temps, coolant, oil, and now IATs.
Let's break down what you are asking for a second. 900rwhp on 93 octane is possible with your setup using a good tuner. I have been to Dubai, Bahran, Qatar, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. I dont know any tuner that would want to risk tuning your car to make 900rwhp on 93 octane with the ambient temps in your area. Even at night it is hotter than most places on earth. Now unless you are only planning on pushing the car during the SHORT winter time you guys have I suggest you re-think. I say forget all about 900rwhp and 93 octane and run 100 octane and above with anything over 750rwhp. You obviously have money. Put your one hundred 55 gallon 100 octane or C16 drums order in and call it a day. Trying to skimp on what you need makes no sense. So what if someone else has done it with a Viper in your area. You dont have a Viper.
Also, what is this setting the boost controller up to "NOT produce 900rwhp except at speeds above say (170mph+ throttle position above 70%)?"
You cant remotely be serious!! If you think by 170mph your IAT's wont be high you are mistaken and you said something about safe timing? You wont get 900rwhp on 93 octane in 110 plus degree weather on safe timing.
Also, what is this setting the boost controller up to "NOT produce 900rwhp except at speeds above say (170mph+ throttle position above 70%)?"
You cant remotely be serious!! If you think by 170mph your IAT's wont be high you are mistaken and you said something about safe timing? You wont get 900rwhp on 93 octane in 110 plus degree weather on safe timing.
08-08-2008, 06:20 PM
#17
Actually your turbos are bigger than mine I make over 900rwhp playing it safe with meth and 93 octane. You have a lot more motor and bigger turbos. I dont see you having any problem if the tuning is dead on. Just be careful in the heat.
I make over 900rwhp playing it safe with meth and 93 octane. You have a lot more motor and bigger turbos. I dont see you having any problem if the tuning is dead on. Just be careful in the heat.Vince,
I got the same turbos that you have the T3/T4 .81 a/r, any idea when theyll give up?
Well, what I meant about the boost by speed is my car will see very low boost for 99.9% of its life, and when I do want to go above 170mph (which is when the car will see full boost) ill just fill it up with same race fuel, or high-octane additive
Also what I meant about safe timing is:
Ill make sure to have the ECU pull timing based on coolant temps or IAT, so if I was running 10* advance to develop 900rwhp @ 95 degrees IAT, ill make sure the ecu pulls out a few degrees of timing if the IAT went above 100 etc... That sort of thing.
Ill make sure I add meth injection down the line, before winter is up too, also take into consideration that I am a very careful person, I always have my eyes on the ambient temps, coolant, oil, and now IATs.
I got the same turbos that you have the T3/T4 .81 a/r, any idea when theyll give up?
Well, what I meant about the boost by speed is my car will see very low boost for 99.9% of its life, and when I do want to go above 170mph (which is when the car will see full boost) ill just fill it up with same race fuel, or high-octane additive
Also what I meant about safe timing is:
Ill make sure to have the ECU pull timing based on coolant temps or IAT, so if I was running 10* advance to develop 900rwhp @ 95 degrees IAT, ill make sure the ecu pulls out a few degrees of timing if the IAT went above 100 etc... That sort of thing.
Ill make sure I add meth injection down the line, before winter is up too, also take into consideration that I am a very careful person, I always have my eyes on the ambient temps, coolant, oil, and now IATs.
08-08-2008, 06:38 PM
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893 rwhp
haha.and it was with afr 205's hand ported on 91, but it only lived a month before it blew
been down for a bit but the trannys getting installed (blew that up after 50 miles of my car working again) and should be drivable tommorow. Wont chance it again with that much power on 91.
OP, trust me when I say you want to be conservative with your pump gas setting. ESPECIALLY in this heat (it gets 118+ during the summer here).
I think my issue was the 15.5 lbs on 91 lol. I didnt mean to run that much boost but it just auto adjusted when I took my exhuast off running open downpipe.
Do your self a favor though and keep the high boost settings strictly race gas, whether its unleaded 101/104 or c16/q16.
