Lason

iTrader: (1)

OK ironing out some details with my Datsun and I THINK my 6010 is burned up and MSD tech is a joke these days. Anyway what Im needing is to see if someone can unplug their coil harness (so the motor wont start) and crank their vehicle over with the pro data software up on their laptop and see if the 6010 registers a rpm signal while cranking over.

Roller406Bu

iTrader: (1)

I'll check in the morning for you..

bluethunder364

iTrader: (5)

So are you saying that you have had no help from MSD tech?
I need help on my application as well, and as soon as I get my computer up and running correctly I was planning on calling them to get some help. My car turns and turns and doesn't want to start. It keeps back firing through the carb. I've tried all those damn pills that come with it, but no luck. I'm guessing I have to much timing to start with and want to come down on the initial for start up. I hope they can help me, but I may be on my own. I've read a few post on the MSD website from other people and some have not been to happy with this 6010 controller. I just want to get my damn car to run!!

forcd ind

iTrader: (7)

are you sure your coils are wired to the correct leads(the back firing) it would be like a dist being off
i cant tell you how perfect mine works-i ran it Fri., and got a little lazy on one shift, and winged it to 7k, never missed a beat-im using the map sensor to run the timing with the supercharger, and im running a lot of fuel thru it, and it burns it no problem
when i first got mine running, the guy from MSD spent almost an hour on the phone with me-his name was Peter-he even put my first program in his computer so if i called back he could look it up

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

Just to clarify. Is this a new application, or have you been using the 6010 and it started having this no-start problem? Is this an LS1 or an LS2? I had a problem with my LS2 when I first tried to start it with the 6010 box. Wouldn't start and kept backfiring through the carb. Turned out to be the cam sensor wires. Had to reverse the A and C wires. Started instantly, been working perfectly ever since. Ron

Roller406Bu

iTrader: (1)

mine was backfiring as well on initial startup...I had taken the coil packs off and painted the bracket and had them in the wrong spots when i put it back together...each coil pack has different colored wires running to them they have to be right or it will do like yours is doing...

bluethunder364

iTrader: (5)

Ron: It has run for a few momments, but not to well. I did have the coil packs reversed on one attempted start up. I fixed that problem. It is an LQ-4 motor with L92 heads with a 750 carb. As of now I can't get it to start, I did have my laptop on it yesterday to try to back down on the initial start up timing. I did have an error message pop up that said I had a cam sensor failure. Not sure to believe it or not. Hate to buy a new one and not have that be the problem. Could explain to me in a little more detail about switching the "A&C" wires? I take it that is on the MSD wire plug in to the cam sensor?? This thing is driving me crazy, everything is brand new on this with no shortcuts. I have the heads grounded on each side of the car and the MSD unit is grounded to the motor as well. I checked the MSD website earlyer on and another post stated to make sure the grounds were all good. I would appreciate any input. Thanks

bluethunder364

iTrader: (5)

Ron Is the cam sensor farily easy to remove? Wondering if I should take it out and have it tested at my local GM dealer? Any idea of what one cost? I could check myself but I don't have a part #. Maybe I should try switching the wires first on the harness and see if that cures the problem. Thanks Chris

Lason

iTrader: (1)

No MSD was very unhelpfull. I called in and told him I had no cranking RPM's and before I had a chance to tell him what I had tried and checked he said "its because your not spinning the motor over fast enough" because the box has to see at least 150 (I think) rpm before it registers on the laptop. I then interupted him and told him I have tried charging my battery, trying another fresh battery, jumping the car using my truck, re-did my grounds, checked my sensors, etc etc and he still stuck to his story. I asked "so there is NO WAY this box is bad?" and he told me he doubted it but if I wanted to pony up the cash I could send it in to get checked.

The thing is, the car ran for about a month and then I decided to upgrade to a turbo setup and EFI but other than tapping into the tach output wire for my megasquirt the box has remain untouched. I took the wire I tapped on back off and it still doesnt register cranking RPM.

Has anyone had a chance to check for me?

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

To; * bluethunder 364 * I'll tell you as much as I actually know, which won't take long, lol. First, I don't know if the LQ4 is made like the aluminum LS2. By that, I mean, does it have the cam sensor on the front of the motor, or is it on the back like the LS1. If it is on the front, I would say that reversing the wires will probably fix it. I don't know where you mounted your box, but I mounted mine on the inside of the firewall, so I wound up having to lengthen the wires to the cam sensor on the front of the engine. I first lengthened them, (spliced in a piece on each wire just like they came in the loom) . If you look at the plug that goes in the cam sensor, you will see it is marked, A, B, C. If you look on the instructions that came with your box, it has the wiring diagram and color coding and tells where each wire goes. When I had the no-start problem, I went to MSD's website and downloaded the instructions for the 6012 box which I knew had the front mounted sensor, and I saw that the A and C wires were reversed, so I simply reversed the wires I had lengthened that were marked A and C and I hardly got my hand off the key before it started!! If your engine has the sensor on the back like the LS1, this WILL NOT fix it. Hope this helps! Ron

bluethunder364

iTrader: (5)

Thanks Ron & Lason for the info. Well my 2006 LQ-4 motor has the cam sensor at the rear of the motor, not on the front cover. I may pull the cam sensor and have it checked just to make sure it is ok. I was hoping the wire switch would cure it but I guess not. I will check to see if the RPM"s are at least 150 while cranking. Thanks again

SUPERWAKE502

iTrader: (1)

I was always told that a cam sensor was used to get the engine started and then the crank sensor took over. If the sensor was bad then the engine would not start. I also have a LQ4 2006 with 6010 and have no problems. Lee

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

Sorry my fix didn't work on the LQ4's, but don't give up on the 6010 yet. It's got to be something simple that is giving both of you this problem. Have you used a volt meter and checked voltage at the box, both when just turned "on" and also when actually cranking the engine? Also, most multi-meters have an ohm meter so you can actually check the ground from the engine back to right at the box where the box plugs into the harness. If you haven't already, I would do like *forced induction* suggested and re-check the wires to the coils. I would do this from the page that shows the color coding for each wire in the instructions that came with the box. If you don't have them , you can download them from MSD's website, msdignition.com. It sounds like both of your engines are firing on an open valve,which suggests like *forced induction* said that the coils are firing at the wrong time. Also, and I'm not being a smart-*** or saying anybody messed up, but I am assuming these engines have had the cams changed and, at least in *bluethunder's case, the heads have been changed. Could it be possible that you have valves slightly open (even a few thou would do it), or the cam off time by accident enough to fire on open valve. Just thinking out loud!! Anyway, don't give up on the 6010. When you finally sort it out, and you will, you will love being able to change your timing curves with the stroke of the key. Good luck! Ron

bluethunder364

iTrader: (5)

Well I thought maybe the cam sensor was bad and I planned to remove it to check it. I called the local Chevy dealership today and spoke to the service/shop manager and he says the that the motor will run with a bad cam sensor. I asked him about checking it with an Ohm meter and according to him the cam sensor is a "Hall-effect" type sensor and it won't work with an Ohm meter. From what I understand it uses a magnetic field to send the signal back the computer. It may read in volts but not sure. I called MSD today and they told me that I need to have the map sensor in place to start my car. Is that true?? I thought I understood that it wasn't needed to at least start, but would be needed if you used the car alot on the street. I just hooked it up tonight, but have not tried to start it yet. It does sound like it is firing with a valve open and sending the charge back up through the carb. Could be the coil packs are wrong but I don't know how they could be. I know my valve train is all set with the correct pushrod length and all. Yes my cam was changed along with a new timing chain. I was confident that the timing marks were on the money. I even called Rollmaster to be sure during assembly.
I'm not giving up, but man I'm about to just put it away and come back to it in the Spring and start over. Thanks to Ron and others who have made suggestions. I'll keep you posted. Chris

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

After I logged off last night, I went back to the TV, but I just happened to keep thinking about this. You said something in your last post that didn't sound right to me, and at first I thought I had solved it, but then this morning I read *SUPERWAKE502's* post, and now I'm confused. I always thought the 2006 engines had the 58X tooth reluctors. If that IS the case, then the 6010 box won't work. They would require the 6012 box. I know that some 2005 GTO's and some 2005 Corvette's had 24 tooth reluctors, but I thought ALL 2006's had 58 tooth reluctors. So then I read that *SUPERWAKE* is using a 6010 on HIS 2006 LQ4 and that throws my whole theory out the window. So, is this true? Do the late model LQ4's still use the 24 tooth reluctor?? I've been told you can tell by the color of the crank sensor plug just above the starter, but I've forgotten which color goes with which reluctor. Maybe someone can shed some light on this. Ron

bluethunder364

iTrader: (5)

Ron: I went through this when I was about to order mine,(6010) I got conflicting information. My motor is a 2006 model year LQ-4 (truck) and I had to go to an F-body oil pan. So when I had it off I checked and counted the reluctor wheel and it is 24X . Iwas also expecting a 58X based on the year. Even if your were not sure if you saw a 24 and a 58 you would know just by a quick glance the difference between the two. Also I was told that if you have a black (which I have) crank sensor, you have a 24x. I think the 58X are grey.

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

Sorry to keep putting in on this, but I wasn't referring to checking the cam sensor with the ohm meter. I was talking about checking to make sure you have a really good GROUND in the wire that runs up to the box itself. This was also meant for *LASON* who said the MSD tech rep said he probably had a bad GROUND. Don't know about all of them, but on my meter you can set it to the highest ohm reading and then touch the two leads together and it will read about .3, then you can touch one lead to the engine block and the other lead to the end of the wire (should be grey on the 6010 16 pin connector) that plugs in right at the box. If it still reads .3 or very close to that ,it means it has good "continuity" or a good GROUND. Ok, I'm done! Ron

bluethunder364

iTrader: (5)

Well my 6010 is inside the glove box and the ground goes back out to the engine block, and is grounded close to the cam sensor. I also have each cylinder head with it's own ground to the car frame. I have not tested with an ohm meter, but I can just to be sure.
On a side note should it start with out the map sensor hooked up?? MSD told me yesterday that you need it.

Lason

iTrader: (1)

No the MSD tech didnt say I had a bad ground. I just moved my ground to try anything. My car was running fine for over a month and then I did EFI and turbo upgrade but the 6010 was left untouched with the exception of tapping into the "tach output" wire for my EFI. Other than that the only thing I did was unplug and plug the harness back in. Im not trying to fire it up (still waiting on injectors) but I was trying to track down a problem with my EFI why it had no tach signal and it was the 6010.

Oh and the way I understand it the crank position sensor is what reads RPM and the cam position sensor is what tells the box when to fire. I have 12v+ during cranking and a great ground and all my sensors have 12v and ground. Cant measure signal without an ociliscope(sp?) I imagine.

rojs234

iTrader: (5)

I know I should quit, but I just can't help myself! lol. I hate to disagree with the MSD guy, but I HAVE started mine without the MAP hooked up, NO PROBLEM. I do think you need to run the MAP on a street type motor but IT really doesn't serve much purpose on a race motor, since at full throttle, you basically have no vacuum anyway! In your first post you said something about thinking you had too much initial advance. I hate to keep bringing it up , but if you'll look in the MSD instructions, there is a chart showing the advance curve of each numbered "pill". Shows cranking degrees and the degrees at various RPM's and total advance and even the degrees of vacuum advance. I have checked a couple of the "pills" with my laptop and have found them very close to the specs given. Man, I hope you guys get this sorted out and do keep it updated. I still think it will turn out to be something really simple in the end. Again, good luck! Ron