Dynamometer Results & Comparisons - TR Old Man Cam - dyno graphs inside

There has been alot of talk lately regarding the smaller cams out there. They don't get alot of publicity since most people now-a-days are looking at the biggest, baddest cam they can fit into their daily driver (I'm one of them :D). However, there are quite a few people who are looking to keep a very smooth, stealth idle in their daily driver, but still want to make excellent power over the stock cam. A cam that comes up quite a bit when this type of setup is mentioned is the '02 LS6 cam. It is an excellent cam for a street car, but the factory still had many stringent requirements to meet. Therefore, there is still some power to be had over this cam, while still retaining that excellent idle and emission requirements which make these "small" cams so desirable (fast ramps do wonders for that :D). This is where the TR Old Man Cam comes into play. It specs out to 215/220 .600/.523 115 LSA (2 degrees retard ground in).

Here is a thread from awhile back where some dyno results were posted:

Old Man Cam dyno results (http://www.ls1tech.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=9671&Forum=UBB 1&Words=Old%)

Here is another interesting graph:
TR Old Man Cam vs LS6 cam (http://members.cox.net/jason99ta/ls6_vs_oldmancam.jpg)

This graph shows how the TR Old Man Cam roughly compares to the '02 LS6. The Old Man Cam graph is the one in the thread above ('00 TA with stock LS1 heads), while the '02 LS6 is from an '02 Z06 with all the bolt ons and stock LS6 heads. Even though the peak numbers look to be the same, take a look at the low/midrange advantage of the old man cam. This is what makes this cam so much fun on the street. :D Again, don't take the numbers as gospel since these were two different cars. It does, however, show what the old man cam has to offer. The Z06 definitely has a better set of heads from the factory, which makes that graph just that more impressive.

We should have another graph comparing the '02 LS6 cam to the Old Man Cam (same car) in the coming weeks.

When my Z06 shows up, I know what cam I'll be installing. :D

Another interesting thing to note is that this cam has been installed in the customer's car for going on 8 months now. Some people were wondering how the 918s were holding up to that aggressive intake lobe. This is his daily driver and it has been on quite a few road trips, so it definitely gets driven quite a bit. I just pulled the motor out of his car this evening (he hydrolocked it :bomb: last week) and will be tesing the springs tomorrow to see just how they are holding up. I'll post the info when I get around to it.

Jason

I'm curious about the spring info for sure. Trying to convince a girlfriend to cam her car isnt very easy when the stuff doesn't last like an OEM setup does. ;)

How was valvetrain noise on the old man cam? Wasn't it a little quieter due to only one lobe being extreme?

Jon, the valvetrain noise was not much louder (if any) than stock from what I could hear. It was definitely quieter than I expected.

I'll post up the spring info tomorrow. It is definitely on the "to do" list. It just sucks I have class all morning, so it won't be until the afternoon/evening. :barf: lol

Jason

Whats this convincing crap? Who's in charge here? :judge:

Whats this convincing crap? Who's in charge here? :judge:



:confused: :confused:

good info jason. i'll be emailing some questions about a cam later. :cheers: :bang:

About Jmx convincing his GF to put in a cam :p

I'll be interested to see that spring info.

I REALLY like the Old Man Cam. It was the inspiration for the Stealth Cam. :cool:

Yeah, but the OMC2 is what you really need... :)

215/220 .600/.600 115 -2

Of course, that would have just the most minor bit of cam noise to it, since folks running this combo (duration wise) now report a bit of low speed surge in A4 cars every once in a while in some cases, and just a bit of cam noise (minor lope). So, I wonder if a symetrical profile of

215/215 .600/.600 115 -2

would meet all the stealth requirements, and no surge in an A4. The Z06 Cam is 218 on the exhaust side, so I really wondered if you would even notice the additional 2 degrees of a 220 in a MN6.

Of course, knowing the folks at TR they'd tell me to do a reverse split and put in a 220/215 .600/.600 115 -2

Keep in mind, these lobes are even more agressive than an XE-R lobe, but I think this cam is the top dog as far as "stealth cams" go...

Now wait just a minute!!!!! Who says "OL Men" like "wussie" cams!!! Heck all of you think I'm an ol grumpy fart and I run bigger duration cams than all of you. :)

Joe, just because you run a wild duration cam doesn't mean that you are not an ol grumpy fart ;)

Jason,

As you might have or might not have heard, I had a minor parts problem delay since Crane decided to mis-package their seats. I should have those graphs for you Monday afternoon barring any other problems. Im pretty curious to see the difference myself. I did dyno a little higher this time with some break-in miles, the LS6 cam did 357RWHP for the before comparison, but only 338 RWTQ. Im very interested in the torque increase and the lower RPM differences. I'll pass on the full details when its done...cant wait :)

Nice #'s cant wait to see more-pretty impressive!! :D

I can vouch for the midrange on this cam, it's a VERY fun street cam. I've got a few video's of my car with the original version of this cam, but it's with the cutout open. As great of a sleeper cam as it is, word travels fast in my area, so I'll be swapping to a bigger cam in the near future.

I can vouch for the midrange on this cam, it's a VERY fun street cam. I've got a few video's of my car with the original version of this cam, but it's with the cutout open. As great of a sleeper cam as it is, word travels fast in my area, so I'll be swapping to a bigger cam in the near future.

:jest:LOL man hope everything works out!! :D

I just pulled the motor out of his car this evening (he hydrolocked it :bomb: last week) and will be tesing the springs tomorrow to see just how they are holding up. I'll post the info when I get around to it.

Jason






Is there any more info on these springs? How do they look? :confused: :huh:

I haven't had time to test them yet. They are still sitting at the shop. I'll try my best to get that done tomorrow.

Jason

what are the results with a GOOD stg2 head with the old man cam

Here is the spring data:

Comp 918s after 10,000 miles of use with the TR Old Man Cam (http://members.cox.net/kcr19/oldmancam_918springdata.jpg)

The springs checked very well! New 918s normally check right at 130 lbs @ 1.800. The customer could have easily gone another 10,000 miles.

We don't have any dyno #s with a stage 2 head as of yet. I bet this cam would rock with a stage 1 LS6 head. :D

Jason

Excellent info, thanks!

How many miles were on these springs, Jason?

Comp 918s after 10,000 miles of use with the TR Old Man Cam (http://members.cox.net/kcr19/oldmancam_918springdata.jpg)



;)

Jason- Are those the recommended spring pressures for this cam? I'm running more spring pressure than that, and I'm wondering how much power it could be costing me.

Colonel, the springs had 10k miles of pretty hard driving on them.

We normally set the 918s up around 135lb on the seat. I wouldn't be too concerned about how much hp you are losing due to the extra spring pressure because it really isn't costing your any (1-2hp MAX) and, I would prefer to err on the side of having to much than too little. :)

We normally set the 918s up around 135lb on the seat. I wouldn't be too concerned about how much hp you are losing due to the extra spring pressure because it really isn't costing your any (1-2hp MAX) and, I would prefer to err on the side of having to much than too little. :)



Yeah, the sad thing is that there is a big myth that too much spring pressure will lose you HP. I've never seen a motor lose HP when you go to more spring pressure, in fact I've only seen them pick up power. The reason behind this is you are controlling the valve better, less seat bounce and such. On top of that if you think about the cam and valvetrain, if one valve is opening another somewhere on the cam is closing so they off set each other. The only way that too much spring is bad is when you have too much for a hydraulic lifter and it colaplses. With lifters like the Comp R's you can run 177lbs on the seat and 440 rate springs and not have to worry about them.

Bret

Bret, I agree 100%. :D

Does any one have a dyno comparing with other cams, tr224/tr230. I have a comp 228/228 and was thinking of switching. I would like to see how much hp/tq I would loose to gain a better idle and driving habits. How would this cam work on a 150 shot. I'm not worried about springs I have dual springs on my TEA heads.

I don't think you would loose to much HP to your cam. Maybe 10hp if you are running the .571 lift lobes and 15hp if you are running the XE-R .588 lift lobes (on the 228/228), but not a large amount. As for the TQ I would imagine that you would make the same if not more TQ with the Old Man cam. That cam looks to be a TQ monster. Since there is alot of LSA the 150 shot would be o.k. with it, but it's probably not optium.

To me it looks like they have used a very aggressive intake lobe on the TR Old Man cam, which means it could benefit from a larger more heavy duty valve spring. If the 918's worked then your 987's should be fine but a even heavier spring wouldn't be too bad.

Bret

I run the XER lobes. I thoought this cam would rock on the jug. It's a split duration on a 115 lobe sep. If I do the cam I might change the specs a little. I think I will wait untill I see more dyno's on this cam. I know the LS6 cam rocks on nitrous.

My current 228/228 make 402rwhp/377rwtq through an a4 with a ford 9inch. I think I might pick up some torque. I would be willing to give up some hp for a better idle and driveability.

Yeah with that A4 the added TQ might help you out. The big LSA usually does help, but this cam has a very low amount of overlap so a tighter LSA might even help that out a little on the bottle. All in all it's going to suprise people to see what kind of power it makes. I'd like to see this cam in a 450rwhp car just to compare the power curves.

Bret

With the specs on this cam would it work well with N20?

I finally got the results back. I'll forward the graphs over to Jason and he can post them. I gained 10.2 RWHP and 7.2 RWTQ over the '02 LS6 cam. I gained about 10 RWTQ all the way through the RPM band. I'll let the graphs do the talking. Overall Im very pleased considering my mods. 2002 SS A4, DirectFlo lid, TR ported TB, and the TR Old Man Cam...366.6 RWHP and 346.1 RWTQ. Stock manifolds, cats, no tuning, etc. Let me know if there are any questions.

Ireland31: is the cam noticably more powerful driving around? i just got the LS6 cam installed and there is a definate increase in power

To me it felt a lot stronger on the bottom end driving around, so I was suprised to only see about a 10 RWTQ difference.