Turbo + LS1?
09-26-2008, 09:25 AM
#1
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Turbo + LS1? I was thinking about getting myself an LS1 and going with a Turbo kit. I have seen the sickening amounts of power that can be had from TT kits, that of the Lingenfelter and I was wondering about the pros and cons about going TC on something like a GTO. What would it take to do this 100% reliably, ending up with a car I can drive as much as I want and as hard as I want without worrying about anything going splat. Would it by wise to seek out a turbo'd LS1 that was done right? I can see that route saving thousands. I am sure traction would be an issue as well, the GTO already has a hard time putting a lot of rubber in the rear so how would one deal with that and how much WHP should one expect out of a kit+supporting mods?
09-26-2008, 11:09 AM
#2
Im selling a black single front mounted Turbo LS1 6-speed Trans Am (1998 LS1) and i am also willing to put it back to stock and sell the turbo kit complete. So either way i have what you need if you want a badass turbo LS1 Camaro/Firebird. You didnt really explain what LS1 equipped vehicle you wanted (could also be C5 Corvette, or GTO? etc etc in which case i might have overlooked that and im a jackass) 
Message me if you are interested, thanks
Message me if you are interested, thanks
09-26-2008, 11:51 AM
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It definitely can be done reliably. I have about 3 years and 25k miles on my STS kit. I've had a few hiccups along the way like when we had some ridiculous rain and I forgot to scotch guard the nylon sock for like 2 years or when I modded the mounting tab for one of the pipes (my fault but it's better than before and doesn't jack my alignment when I hit it on something). Anyways, if you have a good shop install it or do it yourself and are very detail oriented and take your time it can be done reliably. I had mine done by a shop just for time reasons (I didn't have the time to do it) but looking at it now I probably could've done it except for the tuning. If you do have a shop do it, make sure to ask for all the instructions that they used so that you know where everything is in the event that something does fail. Usually it's the simple things. like this week my car wouldn't start, it'd turn over but no fuel pressure, then a couple of minutes later it'd work. Open it up this morning, find out that the battery bolt that connects the harness to the battery was loose. It's always the little things.
09-26-2008, 07:00 PM
#5
Do you have an ls1/ls2 powered vehicle right now and if so what is it? Also, what are your power goals? Track or street car? How much are you looking to spend? Would it be on a stock engine or a built shortblock? Just need some info to steer you in the right direction.
09-26-2008, 07:22 PM
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Do you have an ls1/ls2 powered vehicle right now and if so what is it? Also, what are your power goals? Track or street car? How much are you looking to spend? Would it be on a stock engine or a built shortblock? Just need some info to steer you in the right direction.
Cams:
Pistons:
Rods:
Top end:
Bottom eng:
Short block:
Long block:
Bearings:
Bore:
Stroke (or Stroker):
Different displacement: 383, 402, 427 etc...
09-26-2008, 11:13 PM
#7
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To be honest I don't own an LSX yet. It would be a street driven, occasional road course and 1/4 strip car. I want the most stickable power, least finicky and most reliable. I am probably going to go with a GTO. The thing is I don't know what to say when people throw out terms like...
Cams:
Pistons:
Rods:
Top end:
Bottom eng:
Short block:
Long block:
Bearings:
Bore:
Stroke (or Stroker):
Different displacement: 383, 402, 427 etc...
Cams:
Pistons:
Rods:
Top end:
Bottom eng:
Short block:
Long block:
Bearings:
Bore:
Stroke (or Stroker):
Different displacement: 383, 402, 427 etc...
From what you describe, sounds like the plug-and-play Magnuson is up your alley.
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09-27-2008, 10:54 AM
#8
To be honest I don't own an LSX yet. It would be a street driven, occasional road course and 1/4 strip car. I want the most stickable power, least finicky and most reliable. I am probably going to go with a GTO. The thing is I don't know what to say when people throw out terms like...
Cams: Only 1 cam in an lsx powered car. Cams will vary on the size of the engine you go with as well as power level and how rough/choppy you want idle. If you want stock-like idle quality then go with an ls6 cam or say an Lingenfelter GT2-3. Otherwise if you want a larger cam I know Exotic Performance Plus, Futural, and other sponsors can spec out a good cam for you.
Pistons: You will want forged dished pistons and brands will vary (mahle, diamond, etc). Piston dish will vary on the heads you use as the combination will determine your Compression Ratio (other factors as well but that is for an engine builder to tell you)
Rods: You will want forged connecting rods and brand will vary on your build. Callies makes good rods though and are used on a lot of FI builds.
Top end: Includes Heads, Intake Manifold, Springs, Valves, Rockers, etc. All depends on your build. If your going for a max build then you will want ETP, TFS, AFR, etc. However, a ported set of 317 heads can flow a good amount of air and are good enough for most builds.
Bottom eng:I think you mean bottom end, which would be the short block
Short block:Combination of block (lq9, ls1, ls2, ls6, lsx, warhawk, etc) rods, pistons, piston rings, crank, cam, bearings, main caps, etc. Its basically everything minus your top end, which is listed above
Long block: A full assembled complete engine read to be dropped into your car which includes block, pistons, piston rings, rods, crank, camshaft, heads, valves, valvesprings, intake, usually throttlebody,etc)
Bearings: Part of your short block, dont have a ton of info on bearings though
Bore: How much the cylinder walls are bored out
Stroke (or Stroker): Stroke depends on the crank shaft you use
Different displacement: 383, 402, 427 etc... combination of bore and stroke. There are different combinations of bore and stroke to get to a certain CI but basically you want to make sure that you dont bore ou the cylinder walls too much on an FI application as it can jeopordize cylinder wall strength. Most common builds are iron block 370's and 408's, ls2 364's and stroked 402's, as well as 383's. 427's are usually made from the new LSx blocks, which are really nice too[/B]
Cams: Only 1 cam in an lsx powered car. Cams will vary on the size of the engine you go with as well as power level and how rough/choppy you want idle. If you want stock-like idle quality then go with an ls6 cam or say an Lingenfelter GT2-3. Otherwise if you want a larger cam I know Exotic Performance Plus, Futural, and other sponsors can spec out a good cam for you.
Pistons: You will want forged dished pistons and brands will vary (mahle, diamond, etc). Piston dish will vary on the heads you use as the combination will determine your Compression Ratio (other factors as well but that is for an engine builder to tell you)
Rods: You will want forged connecting rods and brand will vary on your build. Callies makes good rods though and are used on a lot of FI builds.
Top end: Includes Heads, Intake Manifold, Springs, Valves, Rockers, etc. All depends on your build. If your going for a max build then you will want ETP, TFS, AFR, etc. However, a ported set of 317 heads can flow a good amount of air and are good enough for most builds.
Bottom eng:I think you mean bottom end, which would be the short block
Short block:Combination of block (lq9, ls1, ls2, ls6, lsx, warhawk, etc) rods, pistons, piston rings, crank, cam, bearings, main caps, etc. Its basically everything minus your top end, which is listed above
Long block: A full assembled complete engine read to be dropped into your car which includes block, pistons, piston rings, rods, crank, camshaft, heads, valves, valvesprings, intake, usually throttlebody,etc)
Bearings: Part of your short block, dont have a ton of info on bearings though
Bore: How much the cylinder walls are bored out
Stroke (or Stroker): Stroke depends on the crank shaft you use
Different displacement: 383, 402, 427 etc... combination of bore and stroke. There are different combinations of bore and stroke to get to a certain CI but basically you want to make sure that you dont bore ou the cylinder walls too much on an FI application as it can jeopordize cylinder wall strength. Most common builds are iron block 370's and 408's, ls2 364's and stroked 402's, as well as 383's. 427's are usually made from the new LSx blocks, which are really nice too[/B]
09-27-2008, 11:20 AM
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Wow this is a lot to take in... it helps a bit.
Cam: When people say "mild cam" and "aggressive cam" I am assuming that a mild cam is something for added power but that will not compromise drivability on a daily basis? Aggressive cam being a choppy low RPM idle which almost sounds like it wants to stall out? What does an aggressive cam do that a mild one doesnt? What is causing the low RPM choppy ide? How much do they run? and how many man hours for an install and tune?
Pistons: I know what they are, I could point one out of a pile of junk... I am guessing that the rod is connected the piston as well as the cam which is tied into the crank shaft? When I look up pricing for these do they price out individually or as a set depending on how many cylinders there are? And what kind of labor hours goes into an install of pistons?
Rods: I explained above, and I am assuming this is necessary for a S/C or TC build? Would this just be done at the same time as the pistons, cam?
Top end: What you see when you take off the valve cover? Self explanation (the top half goodies?) Cam?
Bottom end: (where the pistons, rods are located?)
Short block: just the block it self... meaning you would need all the rest of it to complete? How much???$$$
Long block: the works Everything already put together, basically an entirely new How much$$$???
Stroker 383? how come I never hear of stroker hmm 396, 455 etc = what? is it say a 350ci bored and stroked? Kinda like gutted to make more displacement?
and lasttt but not least.
In what applications would you want the following? As in, street, drag strip, road courses etc... What does a bigger motor mean besides making more power and what are the compromises of certain sizes?
383 Stroker
402ci
416ci
427ci
Cam: When people say "mild cam" and "aggressive cam" I am assuming that a mild cam is something for added power but that will not compromise drivability on a daily basis? Aggressive cam being a choppy low RPM idle which almost sounds like it wants to stall out? What does an aggressive cam do that a mild one doesnt? What is causing the low RPM choppy ide? How much do they run? and how many man hours for an install and tune?
Pistons: I know what they are, I could point one out of a pile of junk... I am guessing that the rod is connected the piston as well as the cam which is tied into the crank shaft? When I look up pricing for these do they price out individually or as a set depending on how many cylinders there are? And what kind of labor hours goes into an install of pistons?
Rods: I explained above, and I am assuming this is necessary for a S/C or TC build? Would this just be done at the same time as the pistons, cam?
Top end: What you see when you take off the valve cover? Self explanation (the top half goodies?) Cam?
Bottom end: (where the pistons, rods are located?)
Short block: just the block it self... meaning you would need all the rest of it to complete? How much???$$$
Long block: the works Everything already put together, basically an entirely new How much$$$???
Stroker 383? how come I never hear of stroker hmm 396, 455 etc = what? is it say a 350ci bored and stroked? Kinda like gutted to make more displacement?
and lasttt but not least.
In what applications would you want the following? As in, street, drag strip, road courses etc... What does a bigger motor mean besides making more power and what are the compromises of certain sizes?
383 Stroker
402ci
416ci
427ci
it sounds like you have a lot of homework to do!
09-28-2008, 09:01 AM
#13
Wow this is a lot to take in... it helps a bit.
Cam: When people say "mild cam" and "aggressive cam" I am assuming that a mild cam is something for added power but that will not compromise drivability on a daily basis? Aggressive cam being a choppy low RPM idle which almost sounds like it wants to stall out? What does an aggressive cam do that a mild one doesnt? What is causing the low RPM choppy ide? How much do they run? and how many man hours for an install and tune?
Pistons: I know what they are, I could point one out of a pile of junk... I am guessing that the rod is connected the piston as well as the cam which is tied into the crank shaft? When I look up pricing for these do they price out individually or as a set depending on how many cylinders there are? And what kind of labor hours goes into an install of pistons?
Rods: I explained above, and I am assuming this is necessary for a S/C or TC build? Would this just be done at the same time as the pistons, cam?
Top end: What you see when you take off the valve cover? Self explanation (the top half goodies?) Cam?
Bottom end: (where the pistons, rods are located?)
Short block: just the block it self... meaning you would need all the rest of it to complete? How much???$$$
Long block: the works Everything already put together, basically an entirely new How much$$$???
Stroker 383? how come I never hear of stroker hmm 396, 455 etc = what? is it say a 350ci bored and stroked? Kinda like gutted to make more displacement?
and lasttt but not least.
In what applications would you want the following? As in, street, drag strip, road courses etc... What does a bigger motor mean besides making more power and what are the compromises of certain sizes?
383 Stroker
402ci
416ci
427ci
Cam: When people say "mild cam" and "aggressive cam" I am assuming that a mild cam is something for added power but that will not compromise drivability on a daily basis? Aggressive cam being a choppy low RPM idle which almost sounds like it wants to stall out? What does an aggressive cam do that a mild one doesnt? What is causing the low RPM choppy ide? How much do they run? and how many man hours for an install and tune?
Pistons: I know what they are, I could point one out of a pile of junk... I am guessing that the rod is connected the piston as well as the cam which is tied into the crank shaft? When I look up pricing for these do they price out individually or as a set depending on how many cylinders there are? And what kind of labor hours goes into an install of pistons?
Rods: I explained above, and I am assuming this is necessary for a S/C or TC build? Would this just be done at the same time as the pistons, cam?
Top end: What you see when you take off the valve cover? Self explanation (the top half goodies?) Cam?
Bottom end: (where the pistons, rods are located?)
Short block: just the block it self... meaning you would need all the rest of it to complete? How much???$$$
Long block: the works Everything already put together, basically an entirely new How much$$$???
Stroker 383? how come I never hear of stroker hmm 396, 455 etc = what? is it say a 350ci bored and stroked? Kinda like gutted to make more displacement?
and lasttt but not least.
In what applications would you want the following? As in, street, drag strip, road courses etc... What does a bigger motor mean besides making more power and what are the compromises of certain sizes?
383 Stroker
402ci
416ci
427ci
Cam - The larger the cam (duration and lift), the more power you will make but the choppier/rougher the idle (as you mentioned, sounds like it wants to stall). However, bigger is not always better and you need to find a good cam that fits your needs power wise and driveability wise. A more aggressive/larger cam does not take any longer to install, you just need to make sure that you have a really good tuner as that will make the idle quality a lot better. A custom ground cam will cost the same no matter how mild/aggressive and usually will run you between $400-$500.
Im going to lump all of your engine questions together:
Short block - as explained above it is just the block, rods, pistons, bearings, piston rings, crank, etc. A good forged shortblock can run you anywhere from $3000-$8000+ depending on what block and what forged internals your going to run.
Long block - Entire turn key engine, which includes short block, heads, intake manifold, etc. These can range from $6000-$20000+ depending again on what parts you choose.
You dont hear 396 or 455 as those are mainly old small block/big block combinations and not LSx combos. There are some guys on here with those configurations but they are not as popular or frequently used as the 346 (ls1/ls6), 364 (ls2), 370, 383, 402, 408, 427 combos. If an engine is said to be bored and stroked it means the cylinder walls were bored out to increase displacement and a larger crank (more stroke) is being used as again the combination of bore and stroke gives you your displacement.
All of the engine combos listed above can be used for street, strip, or road courses, it just depends on what your power goals are and what your trying to do with the car. Also, the larger the CI the more power you will make with less boost as your engine (with the right cylinder head, intake, etc combination) will be able to flow a lot more air and will be more efficient. It will also allow you to utilize pump gas longer (with the right compression ratio). I really cant get into what is streetable engine wise as it is more of how much HP can you hook on the street. IMO anything over 600 rwhp on the street is really tough to handle. There are a good amount of guys on this board that have 600-1000+ rwhp cars on the street, but even with the right suspension, rear end, tranny setup it is tough to utilize that much power safely on a public road.
09-28-2008, 11:06 AM
#14
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Ok here goes:
Cam - The larger the cam (duration and lift), the more power you will make but the choppier/rougher the idle (as you mentioned, sounds like it wants to stall). However, bigger is not always better and you need to find a good cam that fits your needs power wise and driveability wise. A more aggressive/larger cam does not take any longer to install, you just need to make sure that you have a really good tuner as that will make the idle quality a lot better. A custom ground cam will cost the same no matter how mild/aggressive and usually will run you between $400-$500.
Im going to lump all of your engine questions together:
Short block - as explained above it is just the block, rods, pistons, bearings, piston rings, crank, etc. A good forged shortblock can run you anywhere from $3000-$8000+ depending on what block and what forged internals your going to run.
Long block - Entire turn key engine, which includes short block, heads, intake manifold, etc. These can range from $6000-$20000+ depending again on what parts you choose.
You dont hear 396 or 455 as those are mainly old small block/big block combinations and not LSx combos. There are some guys on here with those configurations but they are not as popular or frequently used as the 346 (ls1/ls6), 364 (ls2), 370, 383, 402, 408, 427 combos. If an engine is said to be bored and stroked it means the cylinder walls were bored out to increase displacement and a larger crank (more stroke) is being used as again the combination of bore and stroke gives you your displacement.
All of the engine combos listed above can be used for street, strip, or road courses, it just depends on what your power goals are and what your trying to do with the car. Also, the larger the CI the more power you will make with less boost as your engine (with the right cylinder head, intake, etc combination) will be able to flow a lot more air and will be more efficient. It will also allow you to utilize pump gas longer (with the right compression ratio). I really cant get into what is streetable engine wise as it is more of how much HP can you hook on the street. IMO anything over 600 rwhp on the street is really tough to handle. There are a good amount of guys on this board that have 600-1000+ rwhp cars on the street, but even with the right suspension, rear end, tranny setup it is tough to utilize that much power safely on a public road.
Cam - The larger the cam (duration and lift), the more power you will make but the choppier/rougher the idle (as you mentioned, sounds like it wants to stall). However, bigger is not always better and you need to find a good cam that fits your needs power wise and driveability wise. A more aggressive/larger cam does not take any longer to install, you just need to make sure that you have a really good tuner as that will make the idle quality a lot better. A custom ground cam will cost the same no matter how mild/aggressive and usually will run you between $400-$500.
Im going to lump all of your engine questions together:
Short block - as explained above it is just the block, rods, pistons, bearings, piston rings, crank, etc. A good forged shortblock can run you anywhere from $3000-$8000+ depending on what block and what forged internals your going to run.
Long block - Entire turn key engine, which includes short block, heads, intake manifold, etc. These can range from $6000-$20000+ depending again on what parts you choose.
You dont hear 396 or 455 as those are mainly old small block/big block combinations and not LSx combos. There are some guys on here with those configurations but they are not as popular or frequently used as the 346 (ls1/ls6), 364 (ls2), 370, 383, 402, 408, 427 combos. If an engine is said to be bored and stroked it means the cylinder walls were bored out to increase displacement and a larger crank (more stroke) is being used as again the combination of bore and stroke gives you your displacement.
All of the engine combos listed above can be used for street, strip, or road courses, it just depends on what your power goals are and what your trying to do with the car. Also, the larger the CI the more power you will make with less boost as your engine (with the right cylinder head, intake, etc combination) will be able to flow a lot more air and will be more efficient. It will also allow you to utilize pump gas longer (with the right compression ratio). I really cant get into what is streetable engine wise as it is more of how much HP can you hook on the street. IMO anything over 600 rwhp on the street is really tough to handle. There are a good amount of guys on this board that have 600-1000+ rwhp cars on the street, but even with the right suspension, rear end, tranny setup it is tough to utilize that much power safely on a public road.
09-28-2008, 02:10 PM
#15
Well if you buy an assembled shortblock or longblock from a sponsor such as Texas-speed, Weber racing engine, EPP, W2W, etc everything comes assembled and balanced so you dont have to find a machine shop to do it for you. Also, this way you can recoup some money by selling your stock shortblock/longblock. As for install it can get fairly expensive. To have a sponsor pull your factory engine, install a new shortblock/longblock, then install a SC/Turbo kit and tune it your looking at thousands of dollar. An SD tune (no MAF) is probably the best for an FI setup and is usually around $1000, then figure approx. $3K-$4K to pull your old engine, install then new engine, install the FI kit, and any miscellaneous costs. Def isnt cheap. Best bet would be to get a quote from a shop in your area. Where are you located?
