anybody running without a T-stat?
10-03-2008, 03:52 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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anybody running without a T-stat? We finally got our Miata LS1 running, and it didn't seem like the thermostat was opening up, so we took it out. One mechanic is telling me no problem it will run fine (summer use only). Another mechanic says put it back in otherwise it won't run right and may not go into the open loop mode (or is it closed loop?). What's the scoop?
10-03-2008, 05:02 PM
#2
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You need a thermostat at all times. Running without one on an old carbed engine was a bad idea and doing it on a FI LS1 is just stupid. As previously stated at the least the engine will not come up to temp enough for the PCM to go to closed loop and come out of warm up. I also beleive that the thermostat is a multi level and removing it all together screws up coolant flow.
IF IT'S BAD, REPLACE IT.
Re'
IF IT'S BAD, REPLACE IT.
Re'
10-03-2008, 08:10 PM
#3
i have the "race" mezeire electric water pump that does not have a provision for a thermostat and i've had ZERO problems - car runs @ 180 degrees no matter what. i would recommend you tune the PCM for it though.
10-03-2008, 08:59 PM
#4
You need a thermostat at all times. Running without one on an old carbed engine was a bad idea and doing it on a FI LS1 is just stupid. As previously stated at the least the engine will not come up to temp enough for the PCM to go to closed loop and come out of warm up. I also beleive that the thermostat is a multi level and removing it all together screws up coolant flow.
IF IT'S BAD, REPLACE IT.
Re'
IF IT'S BAD, REPLACE IT.
Re'
10-03-2008, 09:48 PM
#6
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Dont know that I would "try" for sake of finding gain.... If you have a good cooling system without issues I would leave it be. Like LT4 said tho it will not hurt you if you make proper adjustments in the tune.
10-03-2008, 09:56 PM
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I must be stupid. I have been running my car all summer (2000 miles) w/out a thermostat. It runs extremely well. The stock thermostat set up is actually poorly designed. Call up Evans cooling and ask all the questions you have about LS series motors cooling system & thermostadt. They won't try to sell you anything....but will educate you on what modifications you can do to your cooling system. If you run w/out a stat, you absolutely must plug the 1 1/8" hole that sits right behind the thermostat housing (in the body of the pump). This will direct the coolant through your radiator instead of the return.
If a engine is overheating, you have a problem that needs to be fixed. Removing the thermostat is NOT fixing the problem.
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10-03-2008, 10:54 PM
#10
The T-Stat does a few thing that is good for engine.. (don't slam me yet guys...)
1) It help in bring up the engine to operating temp quicker, at that point it is open until the temp drop below the setting and air flow and fan setting will keep the coolant and engine in the correct operating range.
In colder climate, the is a good thing. (Now the endless debate will now start on the t-stat range, fan setting or removing the t-stat. I'll let you research and make your own mind up on these subjects, I'll keep out of it. fyi.. I run a 180 but my fans come on about 185/200.)
2) The T-stat regulates the flow of coolant and keeps it flowing at a rate that allows the coolant time to collect the heat from the engine and transfer the heat into the radiator for cooling before it returns to the engine. If it is flowing too fast, the coolant will not have enough time to collect the heat and can cause probelms of not cooling the engine (ie overheating !?).
Some have removed the t-stat but will put in a plate that has a 1/2" to 3/4" hole(s) in it to control the flow rate.
One reason that you can/might run a Electric water pump without a t-stat is that the electric pump will keep the same flow rate of the coolant no matter what speed the engine is going. Generally it is a slower speed as compared to a belt drive, usually designed to flow at the correct rate for good heat transfer.
This is a endless debate on T-Stat's, you should just research and do some trial and error testing to make up your own mind and see what works best for you and your engine.
good luck..
1) It help in bring up the engine to operating temp quicker, at that point it is open until the temp drop below the setting and air flow and fan setting will keep the coolant and engine in the correct operating range.
In colder climate, the is a good thing. (Now the endless debate will now start on the t-stat range, fan setting or removing the t-stat. I'll let you research and make your own mind up on these subjects, I'll keep out of it. fyi.. I run a 180 but my fans come on about 185/200.)
2) The T-stat regulates the flow of coolant and keeps it flowing at a rate that allows the coolant time to collect the heat from the engine and transfer the heat into the radiator for cooling before it returns to the engine. If it is flowing too fast, the coolant will not have enough time to collect the heat and can cause probelms of not cooling the engine (ie overheating !?).
Some have removed the t-stat but will put in a plate that has a 1/2" to 3/4" hole(s) in it to control the flow rate.
One reason that you can/might run a Electric water pump without a t-stat is that the electric pump will keep the same flow rate of the coolant no matter what speed the engine is going. Generally it is a slower speed as compared to a belt drive, usually designed to flow at the correct rate for good heat transfer.
This is a endless debate on T-Stat's, you should just research and do some trial and error testing to make up your own mind and see what works best for you and your engine.
good luck..
10-03-2008, 11:00 PM
#11
Thats good info. As i said before I live in the tropics where the sun shines all year long. In my previous carburated rides Ive always took out the T-stat without problems. Thats why Ive always played around in my head with the idea of just taking it out. With this climate I dont think the engine will delay itself reaching operating temp.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
10-04-2008, 01:26 AM
#12
Chaman, Well.. as I stated, trial and error to find what works for you...
IMO a good T-Stat, one that provides High flow and either 160 or 180 temp would be the best option.
As you stated when you ran a Carb.. operating temp is not as critical or a consideration as compared to a EFI system. Just keep in mind that a computer controlled engine needs to be tuned with the engines operating temp range in mind. Gas Mileage, performance and emission are things that should be kept in mind and operating temp is one variable to all three subjects.
But there are always options to do thing differently. And many times they will work.
IMO a good T-Stat, one that provides High flow and either 160 or 180 temp would be the best option.
As you stated when you ran a Carb.. operating temp is not as critical or a consideration as compared to a EFI system. Just keep in mind that a computer controlled engine needs to be tuned with the engines operating temp range in mind. Gas Mileage, performance and emission are things that should be kept in mind and operating temp is one variable to all three subjects.
But there are always options to do thing differently. And many times they will work.
10-04-2008, 05:13 AM
#13
You said it, not me. But you also said that you can't just remove it. There are changes that need to be made to do it properly. Which is what I said too. Either way, the engine will last longer if it runs between 160 and 200 deg. Just because someone removed their t stat and it appears to be running OK donesn't mean it good for the engine. Honestly think about it. Do you think that if an engine didn't need to operate in a certian temp range for the most efficiency, that ALL car manufacturers would instal thermostats anyway.
If a engine is overheating, you have a problem that needs to be fixed. Removing the thermostat is NOT fixing the problem.
Re'
If a engine is overheating, you have a problem that needs to be fixed. Removing the thermostat is NOT fixing the problem.
Re'
98% of what you are saying is true. If a guy wants to run w/out a thermostat he had better make sure the engine is running within an acceptable operating temp range. Way too cool is not good. I have a unique configuration in my car and it makes sense to run w/out a stat for me in the summer. I live in WI, so I will be putting the stat back in a few days (or a remote Evans stat that flows much better than the GM designed LS1 series stat. My car's engine is mounted behind the driver in a mid engine configuration. My water pump throws water 22 feet to and fro. In the summer, My temps are quite acceptable on the street...about 175 on the hwy and 185-190 sitting in traffic. Where I have a problem is on the roadcourse...where the stock water pump starts to cavitate at high RPM and the engine overheats quickly. Running w/out a stat on the track is a must for me and I've found that it works fine on the street if I let the engine warm up for a minute or two before driving. Everyone's situation is different. I'm just saying my situation warrants running w/out a stat and it works well for me and poses no danger to my engine when the weather is warm. Now you know...the rest of the story.