MontecarloDrag

iTrader: (3)

I always use my HPT interface with a voltage inverter. I have a laptop with a high capacity laptop and even that way battery life isn't enough sometimes so I use an inverter. Is a risk I decided to take, if my interface burns I will purchase another.
Several years and 3 different inverters and not a problem so far

sschoeffler

iTrader: (24)

What I am saying is there is a flaw in the design...somewhere. I didn't soak my unit in a bucket of water, leave it in the rain, run over it, expose it to high heat, or anything else that would cause it to prematurely go out. It has been used to tune 5 different cars since I've owned it. It has always been taken inside my office when I am done using it. I may have connected the interface to my laptop a total of 30 times. I had my laptop connected to the inverter because my laptop battery was about dead and I'm afraid of bricking my ECM if my laptop died or shut down during a write. I disconnected it and took it inside to do some research on the tune I was doing. Plugged it into my laptop and the interface couldn't be found. Rebooted laptop same problem. Installed drivers and software on my home PC thinking the USB slot on my laptop got messed up. Still same problem. Examined the USB cables connected to the interface and noticed a burnt smell. That's when I contacted HP tuners. While waiting for a response I checked the forums and did a search on burnt hp tuners and found many other people with the same issues along with other issues such as bugs in their software causing people to brick their ECM. If you doubt me spend 5 minutes doing a search on google. HP Tuners did not replace ECMs or replace credits...only upgrades on the credits like if you had a 2 bar OS.

My point is they have horrible customer service and don't stand behind their product. They know there is an issue with their hardware and do nothing to fix it. They could implement a built in manual reset surge protector. They could implement a capacitor with a voltage conditioner to protect the board. The capacitor would absorb any type of a voltage spike and the conditioner would ensure proper voltage going to the board. They refuse to implement features such as this. Any decent manufacturer would build things like this into their product. If they didn't there would be some serious recalls and lawsuits. But like another member stated, HP Tuners fills a very small niche and an average everyday person has no idea what tuning a car even means. If you think for a second the power coming out of your outlets is a constant 120 volts you are dead wrong. The power coming out of your home outlets are very dirty, meaning there is a voltage fluctuation of up to 20 volts plus or minus. Why is it your electronic devices are not fried? Because someone put their thinking cap on and implemented capacitors and resistors to absorb the voltage spikes.
In regards to HP Tuners the software is pretty good but whoever designed the hardware interface either dropped the ball or intentionally did it to drive revenue up. Call it a conspiracy theory or whatever I don't care. The mere fact they have shitty customer service, don't stand behind their product, charge outrageous prices to repair the product, and refuse to improve their design on a known flaw is all I need to know about the company. I will not go down this road again...You are entitled to your own opinion.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

So sell the **** and buy EFILive. Problem solved!

MontecarloDrag

iTrader: (3)

I doubt He will fork the $899 bucks Efilive costs.

subeone

iTrader: (5)

I got the same treatment when my unit fucked up and it took them 2 whole weeks after i paid a premium on overnight shipping and 1 day turn around. They need a ******* phone number, i had customers waiting for my interface for a very long time. If it helps you feel any better, i have spent an easy 15k with these guys and get treated this way.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Pretty sure they are a sponsor here, post a review in the sponsor feedback section. If you truly feel this way then get the word out, do it politely, and it will stay for all to see.

Patro46

I'm the dad, and I just might fork over the money. It was MY car and MY laptop that was connected to MY car when things went south. I also am intelligent enough to research an issue before opening my mouth, and after some due diligence I'm inclined to agree there is an issue in how their hardware addresses step down voltage fluctuations. I am here to tell you this can CAN be remedied with a hardware revision. It a re-tool pricey? Well, since one of my clients is in the PCB manufacturing and design business, I posed this question to him. The first question he had was what the size of the board was and what it's contents were, so I sent him an image. Apparently, the little board isn't as complex as it seems. He also quibbled about how writing the software undoubtedly cost more than the board design itself, and there was NO way using the conventional technologies in use today to create such a board by NO means costs $289.00 or ANYTHING remotely close to that figure, unless of course these boards are all created "one off", and I highly doubt that. After it leaves manufacturing and quality control and lands into the hands of HP Tuners, well that is where the high markup takes place. Even it it went through a half dozen nitwits that each charged for "handling" it wouldn't come anywhere near what they are charging. So it's safe to say they profit as much or more "after the sale", and it sounds like they make more AFTER the sale. This all said, and being a small business owner myself, I fully understand the plight of the "small business man", having worn those pants most of my life. I also understand the importance of customer service, and probably outshine most of my competition in that department. For the most part, I rely on "word of mouth" for advertising, and it has served us well for a great many years. I also understand that good news just kinda trickles along, however bad news tends to move a mile a minute, and things like this tend to bring on bad karma which eventually rears it's ugly head on the bottom line of the company ledger. It also causes stuff like competition to provide the product and service you can't seem to provide. Frankly, in my ever so humble opinion, I'm sure someone with maybe a little more intellect at HP Tuners could have came up with a much more favorable solution that could have worked for all parties, me included since my sweat also has to pay this ridiculously overpriced piece of PCB board. Here's an example of why stuff like this SHOULD be handled in a much more professional manner. When someone at a car show, swap meet or wherever asks me about HP Tuners, can you take a wild guess the kind of answer they might receive? THAT is what intelligent businessmen all over the world, at all costs tend to avoid.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

One problem is they really only have one competitor in their market. And it won't do some of the things their product does for the same price. If there were 10 or more competing products that did what their product did, you might see them handling things differently. But there aren't. Because they have somewhat of a one of a kind product, if you need what they are producing and selling, you have to live with their customer service and product design. And to those that say just go and buy EFI Live, it is not the same.

Patro46

I tend to agree, so let's just spit it out and get it in the open. They, from the research I have gathered, pretty much have a monopoly when it comes to controlling PCM's down to the nitty gritty, something I simply had to be able to do to get the LS3 and all the electronic controls that came with it to function in my old Vette and still keep things like mechanical tachs and speedometers operating seamlessly. Being able to alter multiplication points and tables brought the entire project together. All of this doesn't mean a thing when it comes down to the real issue at hand, as there are much more intelligent methods of dealing with issues that tend happen often enough to create what most would call a pattern, so to speak. Bottom line is we paid their ridiculous asking price BECAUSE we knew they had us by the proverbial '*****", and with that entitles me share my personal experience with HP Tuners, and more importantly, the staff behind the name. Do I believe HP Tuners has room for improvement? Indeed I do. So really, after it is all said and done i guess that just makes me another nail in the HP Tuners coffin. From what I gather, I'm not the first one and undoubtedly won't be the last.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

I doubt you paid a ridiculous asking price. Even if you paid for a repair on your cable. Only those of us that bought their Pro version when the company first launched did that.

Patro46

Since you posted this twice, I'll say it twice, in living color.

The "ridiculous asking price" I was referring to, is the cost of the REPLACEMENT BOARD, and NOT the initial purchase price,which btw, wasn't "cheap" by any stretch of the imagination.

The "ridiculous asking price" I was referring to, is the cost of the REPLACEMENT BOARD, and NOT the initial purchase price,which btw, wasn't "cheap" by any stretch of the imagination.

If ya read the entire thread once, you'd probably know that by now. You'd also probably realize by now it wasn't a cable issue, but a cooked PCB board. This said, I appreciate the substance you contributed.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

So what is their cost of the replacement board? And the time/cost involved in transferring the licenses?

Pacer Racer

iTrader: (6)

There would be no way of knowing their cost but it would be fairly easy figure out the ballpark of what they should be paying. After being in the PCB industry for many years in the past and knowing people that still do it for their bread and butter, I can tell you if they're making the boards stateside in quanities of 50 to 100 at a time, their cost should be between $75 and $100 per unit. If they opted to make them overseas, it would cost a third of that but they would have to order more at a time. As far as reading and transfering the license at the most 10 to 15 minutes. By the way I do own HPT, EFI, and TC, plus serveral other program. I use HPT for 3 certain PCM's that TC doesn't support and I have model year licenses for them. I use EFI for anything that requires a COS, since $125 is cheaper then $150 plus for HPT. Everything else I'd normally use TC. They all have their advantages and their drawbacks but as far as custumer service, I'd rate John at TC in first place by a mile, followed by Paul at EFI and in a distant last place we have Bill at HPT.

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

Didn't TC sell the OBD2 product line to Jet?

sschoeffler

iTrader: (24)

What I can say is I paid $649 for the Pro. When I needed the credits for my Trans AM it cost me $200 (4 credits for a 2 bar custom OS which btw would have only cost me $125 with EFI Live). Now I just had to pay an additional $289 for a replacement board due to a manufacturer defect in their boards that they refuse to fix. Total cost for my HP Tuners? $938 not including shipping or other credits I have purchased. That already exceeds the cost of EFI live and most other tuners on the market. They claim to be the cheapest but are they really? Maybe initially but they are more expensive and unreliable in the long run.
Had I know then what I know now I would have never chosen HP tuners as my tuning software. Had HP Tuners had the backbone to correct their mistakes and make this right I wouldn't be in a forum talking about my bad experience. And its not just me that has had issues....Imagine how the folks feel that bricked their 98 ECM due to a software bug in the 2.24 version of HP Tuners. Hell it wasn't their fault and again HP tuners didn't make it right with those customers either

Hows that for customer service or standing behind their product?

MontecarloDrag

iTrader: (3)

Wondering how did you end spending 6 credits for a 2 Bar OS...
It is free now to upgrade to a custom OS but was 2 credits before. A new Pro interface comes with 8 credits and you need 4 to use a 2 Bar OS. So you would have a Pro interface with 4 credits left at the $649 price.

Not HPTuners's fault if you don't know how to use it


As we all have told you $289 is a very fair price for a interface replacement. Tuning is not cheap, and as long as Craftsman doesn't sell tuning devices you won't get a lifetime warranty

sschoeffler

iTrader: (24)

Fixed the credit thing...You are still missing the point though.....completely

foff667

iTrader: (2)

I agree there was a bit of a miscommunication to start off in that we did receive the interface and I didn't think we had, thats 100% my fault for not communicating that to you, however it actually didn't delay anything in the process ie interface arrived on or around the 19th, we did a quick connection test on the 19th at our Buffalo Grove office and it failed to communicate so from there it gets shipped to our repair facility and arrived there right around Christmas from what I can tell. We tested it at our repair facility and found the 12v power supply side was completely fried, this is the quote from the repair tech(whom happens to be the CEO & person who developed our hardware in house back in 2004) "Most likely reverse polarity or voltage spike. Damage to board and not repairable". On Jan 5th you were emailed regarding the issue and given the quote for the replacement cost.

Mind you your particular interface was sold in June of 2007 so when you state over and over that we have defective hardware, said "defective hardware" lasted you 8 years before failing.

Regarding the cost of the replacement, I had looked into efilives replacement cost a year or so ago and they are in the $400-450 range if I'm not mistaken so our replacement cost is pretty comparable. If you take into account all the hands involved in the process from me, to our shipping dept, the engineer that needs to be pulled off of other projects in order to swap over the licenses to a new interface, the hardware designer that had to test the interface and determine if it was something he could fix, the cost to have a facility nothing is free and there is a minimal amount of profit on replacements but on that note after 8 years we could just as easily be jerks and say you need to buy new but we don't.

Additionally I've used a $20 power inverter multiple times without issue, however we can't test every single scenerio and have built our hardware robust enough to be tossed around at tunershops in some of the harshest conditions day in and day out and still with less than a 10th of 1% failure rate.

Also you start off by saying you emailed on December 13, this is a SATURDAY, and that you didn't get an email until 2 days later which was Monday at 6:58am BTW. Smaller companies such as us only have 1 support person and I do cherish my weekends so try not to work on saturdays and sundays as I would much rather prefer to spend time with my 3 children, I don't think thats a bad thing.

I'm human I did make a communication mistake at the onset, however it really has no bearing on the fact that your interface did last a very long time(8 YEARS) without issue and we still offered a discounted replacement with all of your old licenses loaded onto it, it wouldn't matter if you had 3 licenses or 300 they would've all be loaded to it.

Thanks,
William Henn
HP Tuners

sschoeffler

iTrader: (24)

What I know is the power inverter is the same power inverter used to power all my laptops or any other device that I have plugged into it and never had a failure. I have never burnt up ANY USB powered device that was plugged into any of my laptops. I have never melted down a phone or a radar detecter when it is plugged into the 12volt source coming from ANY car. This is an isolated instance with HP Tuners and I am definitely not the only person this has happened to.

My interface is almost 8 years old yes but guess where it spent most of its life? In my closet....Its been used to tune about 5 cars....you have my license info that's no lie. It has had very minimal use. The same motor has been sitting in my Trans Am for about 6 years but that doesn't change the fact it only has 750 street driven miles on it. Its still a new motor...

Show me a pattern of the boards getting fried due to a voltage fluctuation requiring constant replacement. HP Tuners has a pattern and again, I'm definitely not the first nor will I be the last unless a board revision is done

How much time could it possibly take to program the chip with the same serial number I had before? Once that is done the licenses should also be transferred at the same time.

It takes less than 5 minutes and a small phillips screwdriver to remove 4 screws and see the big burn spot on the board

Got that right...you guys wont even FIX the known issue you have with your current board. Not to mention the ECMs that your software bricked because of a bug YOU GUYS developed. Instead that cost is passed down to your customer and you rely on your customer to eat the loss when its not even their fault...That's a great way to keep customers...

Apparently its bad enough when you guys put a sticky note on a customers package asking them not to use a power inverter or to have multiple customer complaints about the same issue.

I'm not bitching about a two day reply that was placed on a weekend.

Bottom line is HP Tuners has thousands of dollars coming in every month that is chalked up as residual income from credit sales. New software releases are offered every 5 years or so and contain minimal updates. Instead of gouging folks when their crap breaks, a good business practice would be to figure out WHY is breaks and fix it. Install failsafes to where issues like this don't happen. When somebody bricks their ECM because of a bug in YOUR software then man up and replace it. They spent good money purchasing your product and as a result of your product being inferior they trashed their ECM. You guys wouldn't even replace the $100 in credits that were spent to trash the ECM. But hey you replaced the $100 in credits that were used to convert it to a custom OS....Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

HP Tuners has a lot to learn when it comes to business practices, ethics, and how to properly treat a customer. HP Tuners also needs to figure out what the term accountability is and how accountability and creditability go hand in hand.

codyvette

iTrader: (24)

I just purchased TC and will eventually buy EFI live because there are things that it will do that HP won't and living in a county that has VIN inspections almost demands that feature. There are also things HP will do that EFI live won't so I will continue to use it. No business is perfect but I do believe HP should listen to there customers more and quit using the small business excuse. That probably keeps a lot of small businesses small. Just my .02.