03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

As many of you already know I have a built 427 I purchased from Texas Speed a year ago. From day 1 there was numerous concerns with them doing the work, from trying to get ahold of someone to incorrect compression numbers. No big deal but it got worse. Once I had gotten the motor and installed we have been playing around for the last year with tuning issues and oil consumption issues. The cam I chose was on the larger side but was told it would run. This car would pop and backfire horibly from 2800-3200 rpm. I have had numerous people look at the tune and drive the car and everyone said they would be embarrased if it was there car. TSP insist it is designed to drive this way stating I must not be used to a big cam car, if they only knew. The bucking and surging sure but this is way far from that but they do not accept that response.

The cam was to be a 257/266 on a 110 advanced 4 degrees with an SLP timing set. After a year we decided to finnaly pull the big cam out and throw something smaller at it to see if it would eliminate the problems we were having. We put a G5X3 cam in there and it did fix the problem. However, while pulling the old cam out I noticed that the cam was a 252/263 on a 110 and there was NO adjustable timing set on my car just a stock LS7. In the last year I was told by various staff at TSP that they degreed this thing 4 degrees advanced with an SLP sprocket. It was not built in becaus this cam was built on a 110 like I had asked and later decided to have it advanced 4 degrees and instead of having another cam built decided to use the adjustable timing set.

I decided to discuss this with TSP today to only be told that there must have been 4 degrees built into the cam (BS) They have done nothing but try and sidestep every concern I have had with this build and try to put the blame on myself as well as my tuners which are proven to be the best in the area. They were only willing to have my cam put on a cam doctor, which is fine and good but it does not run in this motor for whatever reason the L92 heads or improper pushrod lenght. I do not know, I did not feel it was my responsibility to check over work that I paid 10K for. If I had to do it all over again I would go with Katech or LME.


Alot of you guys know me and know I am not one to vent publically and I really hate to be like this but this **** has pissed me off for over a year and I do not want any one to have to go through what I did. 10K is alot of damn money. I tried to be proffessional about this but that got me nowhere. I still have oil consumptiuon issues about 1 qt every 500 miles but acording to an e-mail I will attach that was my fault as well. TSP is perfect and everyone else is wrong. I have never dealt with a company with service this horrible after they have your money. I am sure there are 100's of people with great things to say about TSP but I am not 1 of them. I am sure they will come back and try to turn things on myself and my tuners because that is what they do best, not building motors like they claim. If you are thinking about TSP for a motor build do a seach and remember you get what you pay for. I asked for a simple cam swap so this thing would run and I would have been happy.

And for everyone wondering the big cam put down 560/515 and this baby cam put down tonight 535/520 and had over 100 ft lbs of torque at 3000. So much for that theory about my tuner.

I could go into alot more detail about some of the issues which I am sure by the end of this thread I will but felt this was enough for now. Here is a copy of my e-mails to and from TSP make your own opinion. Thanks for your time.





Quote:
Originally Posted by 03 BUSA
Jason, after almost a year playing with the tune on this thing we decided to swap cams. Yesterday I threw a brand new G5X3 cam in it. This was a cam Nick had on the shelf. We wanted to go small just to see what would happen. During the swap I noticed a couple of things that we need to address. First the cam I had purchased from you was supposed to be a 257/266 on a 110. The engraving on the back of the cam was 252/263 on a 110???? Also, I asked Trevor last year to put a SLP adjustable cam sprocket on this thing and advance the 257/266 cam 4 degrees and he assured me as did yourself and Jon that it was installed 4 advanced. The timing sprocket is a factory LS7 sprocket. Therefore I was lied to and not very happy about. I guess I should have pulled this thing apart to check over your work but thought quality work is what I paid for.


With that said, the smaller cam has fixed the problem. Therefore it is not in the tune. How I would like to resolve this is I would like for us to swap cams. You can have this cam back since it is not what I paid for and you can send me something that will work with this build and I will be happy and leave it at this. I wanted to be on the edge of streetability with the build. Obviously the 252/263 will not work, I do not know if the 257/266 +4 on a 110 would work now either. I do know that you are having good success with your 251/259 on your L92 stuff. Let me know what you guys recommend for a monster cam for a 427 PRC L92 headed motor. Our compression was something like SCR of 11:99.1
and a DCR of 8:27.1. That was the numbers with using the 257/266 numbers.

I don't know if the cam has too much overlap or what but down low it will just carry on and as soon as the tach reads 3300 rpm it is like a light switch was turned on and magically this thing would run??? Let me know what you think. I am a little upset but I feel we can work through this as proffessional as possible. I really just want my car to finnaly run the way it should. I spent alot of money and I just want it to be right. I am sure you can understand that. Thanks for your time.

Shawn




Shawn,

The camshaft was ordered exactly as we had discussed. If your concerned the camshaft was not ground properly Cam Motion could cam doctor it for you. Do you still have the cam sheet included with the camshaft?

NO BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER INCLUDED AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AMONG OTHER THINGS. ATLEAST YOU GUYS ARE CONSISTENT


I remember very well how you jumped in every thread hammering on our short-blocks claiming they consumed oil only to find out it was a error on your end. (IT STILL BURNS OIL PAY ATTENTION) I'd guess this issue will probably be no different, but honestly that was exactly the camshaft you requested. You told Trevor you wanted a large camshaft & we sold you a camshaft that we've proven can be tuned numerous times. I've even tuned that specific camshaft to remote start in a automatic car that Jon drove everyday!

I NEVER SAID I HAD A PROBLEM GETTING THE CAR TO IDLE
Finding a way to make a 232/240 camshaft idle & drive better than a 257/266 does not really prove somethings wrong with the first camshaft. Honestly it only proves the 257/266 was really big & probably to much for your tuner to handle. OR TO PASS THE BLAME ON SOMEONE ELSE AS YOU GUYS PROVE TO DO BEST


Jason

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

The truth can be told, but please use the PROPER forum for this. Moved to sponsor feedback.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Just like Trevor discussed with you earlier. We will be more than happy to send the camshaft to Cam Motion so that they can cam doctor the camshaft for you. If they find that the camshaft is not ground properly then I'm sure they will be more than happy to replace the item.

This issue is no different then when you hammered on me for months about how you believed your short-block was somehow faulty. After proper breathing configurations we found that the engine worked properly & makes awesome power!

We handled that issue exaclty like we'll handle this issue. We'll stand behind our product & make sure it's what was advertised even while you post negatively about us...

Like Trevor discussed with you on the phone yesterday just give us we will gladly have the cam cam doctored @ cam motion & we can get you exactly the cam specs.

I'm sorry you guys weren't able to get the camshaft to idle & drive up to your standards. I've sold & tuned that camshaft numerous times without any issues.

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

We have an offer for you then. We will fly you out here and throw the old cam back in it so you can prove us wrong. If you fix it we will pay you the money owed if you fail you pay for Nick's time. Put your money where your mouth's have been for the last year. Cam doctoring it will prove nothing. If it would be found to be wrong I would not doubt a cam swap on your part to hide another mistake made by you.

Also, you should see my inbox full of TSP complaints from both vendors, sponsors and regular customers of yours. Once I hide the names of those people I will forward so you can see how others feel about your work.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Like I said previously I will gladly have the cam checked out by cam motion to make sure it was cut as advertised. I'll make sure the product is exactly what you ordered & if there is any issues I will gladly request cam motion to replace the camshaft.

Thanks

Jason

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Shawn,

I just don't understand how you make threads like this online when you called & discussed these issues with Trevor just yesterday. I guess I just don't understand people act like there's no issues on the phone & then hide behind the internet when they think they have issues.

We never leave someones stranded when something isn't right. IF your camshaft isn't ground to specs I will make sure Cam motion replaces it just like Trevor told you yesterday.

What exactly else do you think I'm suppose to do? Your acting like the camshaft isn't correct when you haven't even had it tested?!!?!? I guess I just don't understand keyboard warriors..

Please feel free to call me or Trevor if you'd like to discuss this further. The solution is very simple, we will ship your camshaft to cam motion to verify that it is exactly what you ordered. If the item isn't within spec I'll make sure & fix it for you.

I don't have the time or patience to argue about this, let me know if you'd like for me to have the camshaft cam doctored for you. I'd gladly make that happen for you...

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Shawn just so you know I checked the purchase order & the camshaft was ordered as a 257/266 camshaft.

Rather than bashing us on ls1tech I'd appreciate the opportunity to prove to you & Nick that the camshaft was built exaclty to spec.

I guess I just don't understand why you would go out of your way to attempt to discredit us when you don't if the camshaft is incorrect.

How about give someone the opportunity to prove to you that the camshaft is correct prior to bashing.....

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

Because Trevor would not listen to what I was saying only what he wanted to. There is something wrong with the build with that cam in the car. It is not a big cam issue we are dealing with. He insisted it was. Maybe the pushrod length with that cam was too long. I neglected to check as I swapped cams this past Sat. I really wanted that cam in this car and still do if it would run. It is def not in the tune. I built this wanting to be the guy with the big cam car. Alot of guys are going power adders and such and putting up incredible numbers I wanted to be different.

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

You had no problem bashing the tune for the last year. I tried many times to get through to you or Trevor in the past year and was greeted with a sales associate that felt I was not good enough to put through and said they would try to help me. Fine but everything was yes it was advanced 4 degrees and all your problems are in the tune. Every time I got the same response. The reason I did this on the site is because it seems to be the only way to resolve issues with you guys. If you look at my sig it doesn't say 427 it says TSP 427. After the money I have spent it is really hard to try and expalin to my wife that I need another $450 camshaft because this one does not work.


I will gladly send this cam back to you, it is doing no good on my toolbox. Let me know if you still have my address, if so I will have the cam sitting on the front porch for UPS or whoever to pick up. If not I will get you my info so you can request a pickup. My info is still the same as last year. Thanks again for all the time.

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/858691-big-cam-little-cam-427-a.html

GEARHED

iTrader: (5)

What changed between your first post here, the quoted link and this link?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/725319-tsp-427-tuned-nick-williams.html
Did you open up with a FAST or not? After a year and being happy with the results this summer from TSP, this isn't making sense anymore.

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

Read the first paragraph and you will see there was still some lower stuff we needed to work on which we have for the last year and found it is not in thew tune. TSP offered no help in the situation until now with a cam doctor to check this cam.

Sure it put up a good dyno number but would not run right. If you need any more clarification let me know.

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

On the post where I had thanked Jason for there help I was being polite because I still thought all of our problems were in the tune as TSP continued to tell me they were. But since then it has been the same thing it is in the tune from some sale guy that doesn't even know what is going on. I was lied to about the SLP timing set that was put on this motor to degree it 4 + and I guarantee everyone on here it is not built into the cam as Trevor has said it must be. There story changed once the cam was pulled and I was able to see the stock LS7 timing gear and not an SLP one. These are some of the things that changed. They lie about everything. Nothing is even remotely close to being a mistake on there part and that pisses me off. Every one ***** up but if they would own up to it I would not be this upset.

When you talk to someone and you know they are lying right to you, how does that make you feel? This is waht I have been going through for a year.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Honestly I'm getting pretty tired of your slanderous attempts on ls1tech. You have no reason to suspect the camshaft is not exactly how it was ordered. I'm tired of you attempting to discredit us online...

Your invoice clearly shows the engine shipped with a ls2 timing chain installed. Unless you've found a way to advance the camshaft 4 degrees with a stock timing chain then I'd say the advance must be cut into the camshaft just like every other 257/266 camshaft I've ordered.

IF THE CAMSHAFT PROVES TO BE NOT EXACTLY WHAT YOU ORDERED CAM MOTION CAN SWAP IT OUT FOR US. What part of that do you not understand? If your so sure the camshaft is incorrect then go ahead & send the cam to cam motion for testing....

I don't get it Shawn how do you expect us to have advanced the camshaft with a ls2 timing chain??? The invoice clearly states you purchased a ls2 timing chain with the engine... Or maybe I'm just lying again....

Legally your walking a very fine line my friend.... I believe they call slander in the form of text libel...

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

Then have UPS pick the damn thing up and lets find out. I know for a fact it is not +4 as I purchased and told it was. I have marked the cam so there will be no way for you to swap it. I called Trevor as soon as I recieved the motor and invoice and asked him about the SLP timing set because it was not on the invoice and he told me because it was his error on the compression numbers I was not charged for it but it was surely installed by Joseph. Trevor has told me this from day one and only changed his story once the cam was pulled. It was built straight up per Trevor and I had the option of ordering a new one or having you guys advance the cam. I told Trevor to just use the cam he had already orderd because it was built on a 110 and he said you only had them on 112.

Don't threaten me with legal issues. I am alot smarter than you think I am pal. Bring a suit and there will be a nice counter suit for my 10k back and I am sure there would be other in this website as well bringing a class action suit.

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

You forget you have dealt with how many customers in the last year? I have only dealt with one purchased motor, I remember everything Trevor told me. I did not forget a thing.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Refresh my memory on why you think you deserve 10K back? Because the camshaft had 4 degrees of advance ground into it & the ls2 timing chain was installed on the engine exactly like your invoice states? No that's not the reason it must be because the car didn't drive as smoothly as you expected WITH A 257/266 CAMSHAFT ON A 110. Do you hear how stupid that sounds? Either way it your reasoning seems completely reasonable to me !?!?!?!?!?

Did you forget I offered you for the last 2 days to just give us a call so we can discuss this? If you really cared anything about trying to reasonably resolve the issue & have the camshaft cam doctored then you would have just sent it in like Trevor offered you.

I'm just getting frustrated now because you have no intention of doing anything but attempting to discredit us anyway you can...

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

You guys feel so strongle that this car is having a problem with the tune or the tune is on and I just don't like it. We offerd to fly you out so you can see what it is doing. Let me ask you have you ever put a 257/266 110 in a 427 L92 headed motor? I have asked this question to Jon many of times and everytime I was told no. Is it possible that there is too much overlap and therefore causing some reversion issues at lower rpms? I am just asking I am not an engineer but these L92 heads do not like this cam. There is something wrong with this motor with this cam. Possibly too much lifter preload with the 7.400 pushrods. I was told they were checked so I never id check them myself. This was one of your very first set of L92 heads and if I remember correctly Trevor told me this cam was never run in a package like this. It is possible from the engineering side of things that between the heads and this big cam it does not work.

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

I will not call to discuss anything there were plenty of times for that in the last year. Everything happens in front of everyone regarding this issue. There are too many variables and poeple do not know who to believe so I feel it is only fair that this be public for both parties.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I'm disappointed to see folks getting into it like this on the forum.

How I see it:

Buyer's POV: I wonder if things would be helped if TSP would look over your tune and make sure it's what they would do with the original big cam, AND indicate whether you were running the correct size pushrods. Then you could start to eliminate variables and figure stuff out.

Seller's POV: Might be wondering if you guys know how to tune a cam that big, and wonder if there is something else amiss in your combo.

My POV: That is a big cam, and I know a few tuners don't like tuning them because they don't idle very well and/or they don't have the expertise or interest in big stuff like that. To wonder about pushrod length concerns me, both side should be committed to making this $10,000 engine perform to perfection. Go for the win/win. Put the egos aside and start over. It's just like marriage sometimes.