Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

Need some help on why I burned a plug completely off the top....the prong bend was melted and gone...It started after I tunned witht the N20...Everything tunned in great on the 100shot and NA...

well a couple of nights later I go to start the my car and get a CHK Eng light...i attempt to reset it and to no success...so I waited until this morning until i realized that I have scan guages that detect and clear DTC's...so I pulled the code and it was
P0300 which is Multiple Cylinder Misfire code...so I looked at the misfires option on my scan gauge, something I didnt or dont use much...but when looked at it is said 16!!!

so i went to the local advance to get an open lot to look at this thing and if i needed anything I was right there...so I clear the DTC's...off my gauge..the CHK light goes away...im still getting a lil sputter and a bunch of misfires....so I go start pulling the plugs on the front...starting with the DOD Cylinders...which by the way I had the DOD tunned to OFF this during the tune this past weekend...I check all of them up front they are all good...not too white and not too dark except #7....that thing was toasted to no end...literally looked like someone had taken a bite out of the very top...it was all to hell!!!

so I replaced the plugs and now i still have misfires only like 0-2 or sometimes I will see 12-10-4-2 coming to a stop or going into accel...but they go away when driving...so, little did I know that there are some misfires in ignition that pop up here and there on NA tune just due to the nature of the beast im discovering with these cars just FYI for the LS4 history book, and now that I am watching them I notice them...but not nearly as bad as they were...cause the only thing that got me to look at them was the DTC code...but with that said...

My tunner was contacted as well as my LS guy about it....Tunner immiediately said chk the plugs..and they are correct for
N20: NGK TR-6 (.035 Gap)...now he did hit it really lean in his drive way while trying to tune in his wideband, later figuring out it was bad!! The car sounded as if it was cam'n and we all know we dont have that luxery!! lol but he said that it wouldnt have done that type of damage that quick...he tunes cars that have been running lean for months until they call him...but it was a theory...cause the only way you burn plugs is going too LEAN!! But this is still a constant theory at this point because this was his first LS4 car and all cars are diff...so he very well set it up for failure, just a matter of time.

But then that kind of got thrown out the door because we tunned all day and night NA and N2O on them...and that was the only plugh that did it...and these plugs have been sprayed with a 50 shot with no tune and ran for 3 months in preperation on the car for the tune...so scratch that idea...unless the little lean spike with all the tunning and N2O weakened the plug in question and fried it...but thats still highly likely, and with it only taking that one..."which there was a first hint of another theory" Ill explain that on the bottom in what I think it could be....

Then there was the question and theory that while spraying it yesterday to wet the girlfriends pants, that the car went too lean while spraying and fried that plug...which I examined that possiblility souley due to me having a Fuel Pressure Safety Switch (FPSS) which was not hooked up during yesterdays pass, but then I remembered that my FJO controller wasnt getting a signal to the selinoids..which we found out it was due to a loose ground that fell off the FPSS due to a faulty screw that went bye bye...so we just hard wired the ground and bypassed the FPSS...we tunned on it just fine and the Air fuel was just fine both N2O passes...so nothing changed from that to yesterday when I sprayed...so that kind of cancelled that out....

with that said, my tunner then told me he wants me to check the oil for SHAVINGS....he is trying to out weight DETONATION!!! potentially from a lean spike that fried and burned/ate that plug...ONLY THAT PLUG THOUGH??? So im going to run around on the NA tune only until FRI and then check the #7 Plug to examine the condition....and hopefully rule-out the NA/Timing issues....or Misfires..which like i said earlier are expected a lil when or after you pull timing for a tune...my LS guy told me his Pontiac Fire Birdy did the same thing once he got it tunned...it would do a lil misfire then stop on down the road, but my tunner says he has to tune out misfires in the ECU when tunning the Camaros and Vettes, but it is showing its face as miss fires I think...the tune that is...cause i have more power than ever before.....so im seeing some similar characteristics here...very, very LS at the heart....

With that said, if the NA looks okay on the plugs or that plug since thats the only one burning up, then that will secure my NA tune as ok....then spray it on the wet 100 shot a couple of passes to see if that plug is doing anything like it did before...My LS guy; who by the way has help me build this whole car as it is...dropped a lil bug that the LS1 guys have had trouble with #7 Cylinder frying plugs....this got me curious...he said it was because they were so far back and got so hot and something about the oil pump, but it made it too hot so they fried plugs...well after I flipped this engine around in the RIGHT WHEEL DRIVE WORLD lol...I had a belt system at the radiator and a tranny to the rear....and an intake that faced toward the firewall...so that help the conclusion of #7...we started to make another LS relationship discovery..but he said it was also due to the LS1 having the intake furthest away from the plug as well had something to do with it...and he didnt know if it would be the same issue as the LS1 due to our intakes being mounted the way they are...so is it a ca-winkee-dink or is there a tie there somewhere from its grand pa!!!?

so thats where our thoughts are going toward now, and cross referencing all the LS1 TECH boards...u know, the guys way up toward the top over us!!! LOL ...we are down here in the pit...so im going to check for the SHAVINGS tomarrow when I get an oil change...full synthetic since i bought her....and I will sift throught the oil...my dip stick is showing to be unpromising as I have found a single little bitty shiny piece of grit...I think Im being paranoid!!!

im praying guys its not going to show any detonation stress or shavings from valves or piston rings...as of right now my pistons feel fine as far as compression and my oil consumption is normal as well as levels and temps...so Im keeping my fingures crossed!! but I have also thought outside the box on this one...remember earlier when I said that I would explain the the simple thought that would make since as well since all the other variables have been put aside...and that all the other 7 plugs were just fine...even though I replaced them all back to brand new just due to uneven displacement...lol..but that very simply IT COULD JUST BE A BAD OR WEAK PLUG that got leaned and weakened by that spike and just simply melted...

so let me know what your guys's insight is on this or if you have any idea of anybody else doing this.....but besides that...this car has come so far...and its a really really fast on everybody's *** meters...lol thanks guys...sorry so long...i tried to space it up!!

Mels SS

iTrader: (1)

While I was reading the short novel LOL I was thing the same thing just a defective plug.
But I'm in Gulf South Firebird and Camaro Club and I will talk to a few guys here and have them read the post and see what they think.

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

Thanks Mel....!!! I need to learn the cliffs i guess...lol

Ill_Born_ss

Try spraying your #7 coil with water while idling and see if it is bad, (ruffer idle).

Mgpeagle

iTrader: (6)

This is precisely why I will not run Nitrous. Nitrous is very tempting but for reliability I'd rather turbo or supercharge it. Let us know how the car is after driving a few days. I hope everything goes Ok for you.

-Mike

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

water on a coil...? no joke...that sounds a lil disaster waiting to happen....?

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

Im gonna keep you guys up to snuff, cause we are def. writting the book on this one...

I have some findings I would like to share for future reference for all our guys and gals..but first I ll share what I have done so far to resolve this issue of mine...there are just so many potential contributing factors....but with all that aside...I have my new plugs in...same NGK TR6 gap=.035 which is what lightly moded builds and 50-100 shot cars are told and recommended to use...LIGHTLY MODED...which that puts us right there cause we have no available cams to us really with DOD and unless you have bore or port/polished etc...rockers are still considered lightly moded....


NA TUNE: This tune really wakes this car up...very, very nice...pulled some

timing and got rid of the KR(KNOCK RETARD) at WOT(WIDE OPEN THROTTLE),

we have only the options to run the fans at 100% while car is on...DOD CAN

BE SIMPLY TURNED OFF!!! its very nice..no more power band changes at

all!!! the car seems to show the tune on the scan gauge as I have

misfires...but it is random cause it doesnt show an actual cylinder

when the list option is pulled from the gauge...so it is determined that this is

simply the tune due to the timing changes...the car will show these...now...I

discovered my problem with the 7 plug cause I got a check engine light and it

generated a DTC on my scan gauge, so this made it a lil diff....sure enough...P

0300 which is Random Cylinder Misfire code...but this was to the point it

generated the CHK light...I didnt pay attention before to misfires until it

threw a light....but my misfires now are not throwing a CHK

light or a DTC code...Hints why we have come to the conclusion that even

with misfires showing they are not TRUE misfires....its the way the tune is

showing itself due to changing some of the timing..because if it really was,

we would see the exact cylinder throwing it on the list of the gauge...the

only way you know its not your tune...you will get a CHK light...thats when I

checked and sure enough 7 was fried...so if you tune

these cars they have the E67 ECU which is what the vettes have you will get

what is shown as MISFIRES...its just timing from the tune showing its

face...worry when you get a CHK light...so, so far with this is a chapter in

the book for frying a plug and how the tune shows on our ECU in our cars....


N2O: WOW guys.....very, very nice as well!!! feel it in the pants...3* of timing was pulled strictly for timing...the A/F did just fine from the NA tune...so my NA tune is serving as the N2O tune as well....plus the additonal timing added for it of course...
The FJO mini-progressive N2O controller was hooked up and set up on my tuners lap top...set it to spray at 3500 RPM and shut off at 5900 at WOT


STEPS I TOOK FOR THIS #7 PROBLEM: I changed all the plugs again to NGK

TR6 gapped at .035 new!! not just that plug...I went and changed the motor

oil today a lil early due to tunning and spraying it and this lil problem...it was

dark..but i checked for metal shavings...in the oil and on the plug...nothing!!!

thats good news...Im going to do a compression test on #7 after I drive on

my NA tune until FRI upon checking the same plug again and see the

conditon of the plug on NA...if comrpession is good and the plug

looks good, then Ill spray 3 times which is the same I sprayed when this lil

problem showed up...so i have a control # to test on...and see how it

goes...if no probs, then prob. the plug failed, or it hit a lean spike when my

tunner ran it lean and then just damaged a lil over the last days after the

tune....If we have the same issue with the plug, and just that one...im going

to move to a colder spark to an NGK TR7 gapped at .035 just for that

cylinder...seems weird, but we might need to do that with this

car...some have said it sounds like a timing issue with the wrong

plug...IDK...so far so good...but we will see for sure FRI...like I said

before..the TR6's were ran on for like 2 months prior to tune and sprayed on

twice with a 50 shot and no problems...

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

I am now seeing KR while not in WOT...just driving around town...in upwards of 8*!!! I

asked my tunner to get back with me so we can give the car back some of that timing

we stole while driving around on the street and interstate...i only seen in upward of 3.0*

before the tune in a hard downshift...but 8.0*!!! and that was on the interstate in low

4th just pushing the accel a lil not downshifting...so that seems to be a lil too much

timing pulled and no KR taken out for around town....when i text him and told him....he

told me to WOT...and sure enough it went away and ran strong!!! but he is a race

tunner and this is my everyday driver...I need to eliminate this KR....in the low end...and

around town driving...if i put my foot in it to WOT when it shows KR, it instantly

disapears....lol so im going to be going back to him probably to get this tweaked

out..and if I change my plug...im going to tune in with the new plugs....

07SS

I also just had a tune. Right after I had the car professionally tuned FOR nitrous I took her out for a drive. The check engine light started freaking out and blinking after the first run. It popped the same code as you got. At idle it was sputtering and you could definitely tell there was an issue. However, at high rpms it seemed fine. The #7 spark plug was fried but all of the other plugs looked just fine. We just took the head off today and the exhaust valve has a chunk out of it. However, I got lucky and the cylinder and piston are fine I just need a new valve. Needless, to say I am going to be taking off the nitrous and selling it. One close call is enough for me. I was also running a 100 shot. I ran it about 6 times before the tune and the first run after the tune she went. I don't know if it was the tune or if it was waiting to happen from the first 6 shots. Either way I figure N/A I'll go the more reliable route of an N/A motor from here on out.

Pauls325

iTrader: (1)

it sounds like you are getting this under controll the only experience i have had with KR is that i was getting false knock last summer. because the sensors are mounted externally (not in the valley because of dod) you can get false knock readings from a ton of **** i was getting it from my exhaust contacting the body.

i might also add that its pretty ballsy to turn KR off completely at WOT all the books i have ever read usually say thats a no no unless you are running speed density or tune the crap out of it

good luck friend

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

I need to find our other counter part that sprays wet on the LS4...can anybody help!!!

Area47

i hit mine with a 120 shot when i had it years back. tr-6 plugs gapped to .032.

plus 28 degree's of wot timing. had a few spells here and there of lean runs {dry shot} of 16.0 afr. froze the maf. doh!

do the basic things. leak down and comp test. pain in the *** i know. it will give you piece of mind if the numbers come out ok.

part throttle knock, or cruise knock is nothing to be worried about.

nuking a plug in the fashion you did. severe detonation.

Metallihawk

Had some dyno time yesterday and helped Rossko get things figured out. Went to the TR7s, and did some N/A pulls. Pulled the plug after each run and they appeared fine. Forget the exact AFR. Decided to go ahead with the 100 shot, and AFRs were in low 10s, confirmed by both the car's innovative and tailpipe widebands. Played with the FJO controller and fuel jet and got it to ~11.1 AFR on the spray. I'll let him post up the specifics, but glad we appear to have worked the major issues out.

Panther427

I just don't think these cars like to be sprayed with any Tune other than stock.

Area47

it's leaner than 11.1 on the street.

JAX04

iTrader: (17)

I was there and i must say things are looking pretty good for old rossko. the car ran great, i was impressed even. and thats not all that easy to do. lol. great job ross, corey and nate