new to LS motors, opinions on a potential build
03-27-2015, 11:18 PM
#1
new to LS motors, opinions on a potential build So ive spent the past week putting together a parts list based on information i've been finding online. Budget is about $2500 bucks including several repairs I have to make to the new GXP, but still leaves plenty of room for some additional go fast parts. While the motor is out, I figure its prudent to eliminate the DOD and swap the cam, not to mention have the heads sent to the machine shop for some refreshing. What's really up in the air at the moment is what cam specs would be ideal before diminishing returns start to take hold given how restricted these cars in breathing. I've put together this short list, which is budget friendly so far, but id like opinions about it.
Scoggin DoD Delete Kit (LS7 Lifters/Trays, LS Valley covers, gaskets/bolts)
LS6 (blue) Valve Springs 12499224
12574519 - LS2 Camshaft 204/211 .525 lift 116.5 lsa
OBX Header Kit
Cold Air inductions 501-0520-B Cold Air Intake System
Summit Racing 1.8 Roller Rocker Arms for LS1/LS6 SUM-G6981 (increases lift to .556)
243 Heads 3 angle valve job with 45* back cut
Fasterproms ported LS4 intake manifold
I noticed these cars seem to be putting down a relatively unimpressive 240-250hp stock, which leaves me debating how much extra power these mods will actually get me.
Scoggin DoD Delete Kit (LS7 Lifters/Trays, LS Valley covers, gaskets/bolts)
LS6 (blue) Valve Springs 12499224
12574519 - LS2 Camshaft 204/211 .525 lift 116.5 lsa
OBX Header Kit
Cold Air inductions 501-0520-B Cold Air Intake System
Summit Racing 1.8 Roller Rocker Arms for LS1/LS6 SUM-G6981 (increases lift to .556)
243 Heads 3 angle valve job with 45* back cut
Fasterproms ported LS4 intake manifold
I noticed these cars seem to be putting down a relatively unimpressive 240-250hp stock, which leaves me debating how much extra power these mods will actually get me.
03-28-2015, 12:06 AM
#5
The putty on the one cut vac port and the way the map sensor mounts isnt something that inspires much confidence for me, but ill consider it more since you think its that much of a better option, is the LS2 intake more of a direct fit piece compared to the LS6 or am I looking at the same modifications.
03-28-2015, 12:14 AM
#6
The putty on the one cut vac port and the way the map sensor mounts isnt something that inspires much confidence for me, but ill consider it more since you think its that much of a better option, is the LS2 intake more of a direct fit piece compared to the LS6 or am I looking at the same modifications.
03-28-2015, 12:17 AM
#7
Are there differences in map sensor mounting or clearance with the OPSU port on the LS3 valley cover that comes with the DoD delete kit? Also, fuel injectors has been a big question, how much wiggle room i have with the stock injectors before im looking at upgrading.
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03-28-2015, 07:47 AM
#8
Really and this is proven where! I find it funny as to how many posters get hot on the trail of doing this swap (ls1,2,6 IM) or that swap and going thru all the trouble involved to do the swap and then disappear from the site or come back raging about how this is now broke or so on and no real proof of what their mod has done.
Now as for the LS4 ported manifold from FasterProms actually flowed the manifold and tested it and it does work... I know, mel ss, knows and many others know it works for everyday use and reliability.
I could come here and say putting a high lift cam in is junk, because a lot of posters busted their engines buy installing one but I know enough that they were inexperienced in the actual math involved. Some never took the max lift .525 for our engines, some never used the stock rockers with the new cam that may of got them thru by chance ... but instead put 1.8 rockers in with the new cam and putting the lift up to like.630 and then blaming the first broken part.
Like back in the day when carb were popular some guys put 1150 cfm denominators on little 327`s ( like putting a 100mm TB on our 325) The engine cannot possibly utilize it! It is an air pump and has only so much in and out.
I see posters going LS7 maf and bragging about how well it works... how about the actual flow (accuracy) oh just insert the tables from the LS7...NOT!
they may have a slow one or they knew enough to seek and verify a fast one but no. Another is change the screen to this or this Honeycomb, nothing to back it up, the reason they all give it to straighten the flow but what if it was all about the vortexes and or eddies that are created.
Like coil over verses standard strut... there is one clown claiming go coilover and over and over but that poster only has fronts done, homemade and if I was doing a state inspection it would fail just buy looking.
Now as for the LS4 ported manifold from FasterProms actually flowed the manifold and tested it and it does work... I know, mel ss, knows and many others know it works for everyday use and reliability.
I could come here and say putting a high lift cam in is junk, because a lot of posters busted their engines buy installing one but I know enough that they were inexperienced in the actual math involved. Some never took the max lift .525 for our engines, some never used the stock rockers with the new cam that may of got them thru by chance ... but instead put 1.8 rockers in with the new cam and putting the lift up to like.630 and then blaming the first broken part.
Like back in the day when carb were popular some guys put 1150 cfm denominators on little 327`s ( like putting a 100mm TB on our 325) The engine cannot possibly utilize it! It is an air pump and has only so much in and out.
I see posters going LS7 maf and bragging about how well it works... how about the actual flow (accuracy) oh just insert the tables from the LS7...NOT!
they may have a slow one or they knew enough to seek and verify a fast one but no. Another is change the screen to this or this Honeycomb, nothing to back it up, the reason they all give it to straighten the flow but what if it was all about the vortexes and or eddies that are created.
Like coil over verses standard strut... there is one clown claiming go coilover and over and over but that poster only has fronts done, homemade and if I was doing a state inspection it would fail just buy looking.
03-28-2015, 09:12 AM
#9
The putty on the one cut vac port and the way the map sensor mounts isnt something that inspires much confidence for me, but ill consider it more since you think its that much of a better option, is the LS2 intake more of a direct fit piece compared to the LS6 or am I looking at the same modifications.
03-28-2015, 09:34 AM
#10
Really and this is proven where! I find it funny as to how many posters get hot on the trail of doing this swap (ls1,2,6 IM) or that swap and going thru all the trouble involved to do the swap and then disappear from the site or come back raging about how this is now broke or so on and no real proof of what their mod has done.
Now as for the LS4 ported manifold from FasterProms actually flowed the manifold and tested it and it does work... I know, mel ss, knows and many others know it works for everyday use and reliability.
I could come here and say putting a high lift cam in is junk, because a lot of posters busted their engines buy installing one but I know enough that they were inexperienced in the actual math involved. Some never took the max lift .525 for our engines, some never used the stock rockers with the new cam that may of got them thru by chance ... but instead put 1.8 rockers in with the new cam and putting the lift up to like.630 and then blaming the first broken part.
Like back in the day when carb were popular some guys put 1150 cfm denominators on little 327`s ( like putting a 100mm TB on our 325) The engine cannot possibly utilize it! It is an air pump and has only so much in and out.
I see posters going LS7 maf and bragging about how well it works... how about the actual flow (accuracy) oh just insert the tables from the LS7...NOT!
they may have a slow one or they knew enough to seek and verify a fast one but no. Another is change the screen to this or this Honeycomb, nothing to back it up, the reason they all give it to straighten the flow but what if it was all about the vortexes and or eddies that are created.
Like coil over verses standard strut... there is one clown claiming go coilover and over and over but that poster only has fronts done, homemade and if I was doing a state inspection it would fail just buy looking.
Now as for the LS4 ported manifold from FasterProms actually flowed the manifold and tested it and it does work... I know, mel ss, knows and many others know it works for everyday use and reliability.
I could come here and say putting a high lift cam in is junk, because a lot of posters busted their engines buy installing one but I know enough that they were inexperienced in the actual math involved. Some never took the max lift .525 for our engines, some never used the stock rockers with the new cam that may of got them thru by chance ... but instead put 1.8 rockers in with the new cam and putting the lift up to like.630 and then blaming the first broken part.
Like back in the day when carb were popular some guys put 1150 cfm denominators on little 327`s ( like putting a 100mm TB on our 325) The engine cannot possibly utilize it! It is an air pump and has only so much in and out.
I see posters going LS7 maf and bragging about how well it works... how about the actual flow (accuracy) oh just insert the tables from the LS7...NOT!
they may have a slow one or they knew enough to seek and verify a fast one but no. Another is change the screen to this or this Honeycomb, nothing to back it up, the reason they all give it to straighten the flow but what if it was all about the vortexes and or eddies that are created.
Like coil over verses standard strut... there is one clown claiming go coilover and over and over but that poster only has fronts done, homemade and if I was doing a state inspection it would fail just buy looking.
03-28-2015, 09:41 AM
#11
To answer your other questions depends on which manifold you use. The ls2 has a mounting spot right by the throttle body Inlet. Opsu location has nothing to do with it. The fuel injectors are 28 lbs and can hold some decent power. There many other options though, ls2 or ls3 injectors can be had cheap and will flow more than enough for a n/a 5.3
Last edited by 91parkave; 03-28-2015 at 10:29 AM.
03-28-2015, 10:14 AM
#12
Really and this is proven where! I find it funny as to how many posters get hot on the trail of doing this swap (ls1,2,6 IM) or that swap and going thru all the trouble involved to do the swap and then disappear from the site or come back raging about how this is now broke or so on and no real proof of what their mod has done.
Now as for the LS4 ported manifold from FasterProms actually flowed the manifold and tested it and it does work... I know, mel ss, knows and many others know it works for everyday use and reliability.
I could come here and say putting a high lift cam in is junk, because a lot of posters busted their engines buy installing one but I know enough that they were inexperienced in the actual math involved. Some never took the max lift .525 for our engines, some never used the stock rockers with the new cam that may of got them thru by chance ... but instead put 1.8 rockers in with the new cam and putting the lift up to like.630 and then blaming the first broken part.
Like back in the day when carb were popular some guys put 1150 cfm denominators on little 327`s ( like putting a 100mm TB on our 325) The engine cannot possibly utilize it! It is an air pump and has only so much in and out.
I see posters going LS7 maf and bragging about how well it works... how about the actual flow (accuracy) oh just insert the tables from the LS7...NOT!
they may have a slow one or they knew enough to seek and verify a fast one but no. Another is change the screen to this or this Honeycomb, nothing to back it up, the reason they all give it to straighten the flow but what if it was all about the vortexes and or eddies that are created.
Like coil over verses standard strut... there is one clown claiming go coilover and over and over but that poster only has fronts done, homemade and if I was doing a state inspection it would fail just buy looking.
Now as for the LS4 ported manifold from FasterProms actually flowed the manifold and tested it and it does work... I know, mel ss, knows and many others know it works for everyday use and reliability.
I could come here and say putting a high lift cam in is junk, because a lot of posters busted their engines buy installing one but I know enough that they were inexperienced in the actual math involved. Some never took the max lift .525 for our engines, some never used the stock rockers with the new cam that may of got them thru by chance ... but instead put 1.8 rockers in with the new cam and putting the lift up to like.630 and then blaming the first broken part.
Like back in the day when carb were popular some guys put 1150 cfm denominators on little 327`s ( like putting a 100mm TB on our 325) The engine cannot possibly utilize it! It is an air pump and has only so much in and out.
I see posters going LS7 maf and bragging about how well it works... how about the actual flow (accuracy) oh just insert the tables from the LS7...NOT!
they may have a slow one or they knew enough to seek and verify a fast one but no. Another is change the screen to this or this Honeycomb, nothing to back it up, the reason they all give it to straighten the flow but what if it was all about the vortexes and or eddies that are created.
Like coil over verses standard strut... there is one clown claiming go coilover and over and over but that poster only has fronts done, homemade and if I was doing a state inspection it would fail just buy looking.
as far as you cam comments well every cam company recommends you go to a certain lift then after that use a pushrod length checker. If there not using shorter pushrods with a bigger cam then they will **** up. That's Simple to understand.
You obviously have forgot your meds because no one said just drop in ls7 tables. You have to do a maf tune regardles, and that is stated. Saxon pc has actually tested their honeycomb designs and if you do a little thing called research you'll find that using them with the card maf helps tremendously in regards to reading stable at lower airflow. Oh and BTW what do you know about tuning on these?
Your coilovers comment is just wrong on so many levels. Coilovers are the ultimate for us to help customize spring rate and ride height. I don't need to waste more time on that subject if I have to explain why coilovers are a step up.
As far as I've ever seen your the only one here who's ever had a tire issue due to struts you ordered.the accuracy of your posts are not the greatest
03-28-2015, 10:37 AM
#13
I was going to be ordering hardened pushrods regardless, i just didnt include it on the list because i'm not sure if im going to get them used or buy them new, nor do I know what brand to go with. I have the pushrod checker from a friends GTO, i feel like checking for the appropriate preload is something that should be done regardless. Just curious about that .525 lift comment more then anything, kind of confuses me, is .525 the maximum lift that can be supported at all without having the pistons fly cut, or is that just a problem people are running into cus they are using stock pushrods with aftermarket cams and the actual lift is much higher then what the cam is rated for due to a lack of appropriate measurement. If i have to fly cut the pistons then I wont bother using the 1.8 roller rockers because I don't want to pull the block apart at this time.
03-28-2015, 10:49 AM
#14
The max lift as per GM is due to the installed spring height to compressed spring. There is more there up to .580 but there is binding/ coil contact at and around this number. When exceeding the .525 different springs retainers and actual valve stem lengths are required to assist in proper operation. It is not as parkave states there is more than .700 valve to piston clearance but to be sure you must do a putty check as simply the thickness of the head gasket or a slight milling of the heads makes a difference. He also states to shorten the pushrods WRONG! the cam comes with not a .560 lift for example it only has as an example .314 lift on the lifter then thru the pushrod to the rocker at a 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7 ratio... then giving you your final lift. So when you get a spected cam it should tell you the lift at with spring specs and rocker arm ratio and pushrod length or requirements to measure the pushrod length required. Every little detail makes it work.
03-28-2015, 11:03 AM
#15
The max lift as per GM is due to the installed spring height to compressed spring. There is more there up to .580 but there is binding/ coil contact at and around this number. When exceeding the .525 different springs retainers and actual valve stem lengths are required to assist in proper operation. It is not as parkave states there is more than .700 valve to piston clearance but to be sure you must do a putty check as simply the thickness of the head gasket or a slight milling of the heads makes a difference. He also states to shorten the pushrods WRONG! the cam comes with not a .560 lift for example it only has as an example .314 lift on the lifter then thru the pushrod to the rocker at a 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7 ratio... then giving you your final lift. So when you get a spected cam it should tell you the lift at with spring specs and rocker arm ratio and pushrod length or requirements to measure the pushrod length required. Every little detail makes it work.
03-28-2015, 11:09 AM
#16
Nobody with a ported ls4 manifold made the numbers everyone else puts down with a ls2 or ls6 manifold. The ls4 no matter what is physically limited at the neck, it will also be a chokepoint...fact. So why waste money when you could get more plenum volume and better inlet design to start. It is not whether anybody ever made the numbers with the ls4 ported. For a daily driver on the streets it does make an improvement and there is not any facts of anyone installing heads and cam to do a comparison. But with all the work required 20-30 hours of mod verses 45 min swap it is a more cost effective mod and as far as the choking you speak it really is only at the very top end it makes any difference.
as far as you cam comments well every cam company recommends you go to a certain lift then after that use a pushrod length checker. If there not using shorter pushrods with a bigger cam then they will **** up. That's Simple to understand.NO it is simply you have no idea on how things work!
You obviously have forgot your meds because no one said just drop in ls7 tables. You have to do a maf tune regardles, and that is stated. Saxon pc has actually tested their honeycomb designs and if you do a little thing called research you'll find that using them with the card maf helps tremendously in regards to reading stable at lower airflow. Oh and BTW what do you know about tuning on these? This here is way beyond your capabilities even if you knew how to research or tune.
Your coilovers comment is just wrong on so many levels. Coilovers are the ultimate for us to help customize spring rate and ride height. I don't need to waste more time on that subject if I have to explain why coilovers are a step up. My coil over comment does not in any way dispute coil overs... My comment was using you as an example making homemade coilovers installing them how many times and only having them on the front and then constantly telling everyone they are the best! HOW are your MEDS?
As far as I've ever seen your the only one here who's ever had a tire issue due to struts you ordered.the accuracy of your posts are not the greatest
as far as you cam comments well every cam company recommends you go to a certain lift then after that use a pushrod length checker. If there not using shorter pushrods with a bigger cam then they will **** up. That's Simple to understand.NO it is simply you have no idea on how things work!
You obviously have forgot your meds because no one said just drop in ls7 tables. You have to do a maf tune regardles, and that is stated. Saxon pc has actually tested their honeycomb designs and if you do a little thing called research you'll find that using them with the card maf helps tremendously in regards to reading stable at lower airflow. Oh and BTW what do you know about tuning on these? This here is way beyond your capabilities even if you knew how to research or tune.
Your coilovers comment is just wrong on so many levels. Coilovers are the ultimate for us to help customize spring rate and ride height. I don't need to waste more time on that subject if I have to explain why coilovers are a step up. My coil over comment does not in any way dispute coil overs... My comment was using you as an example making homemade coilovers installing them how many times and only having them on the front and then constantly telling everyone they are the best! HOW are your MEDS?
As far as I've ever seen your the only one here who's ever had a tire issue due to struts you ordered.the accuracy of your posts are not the greatest
03-28-2015, 11:15 AM
#17
Kinda how i figured it, when we did the 243 heads on my friends GTO there were no valve reliefs in those pistons either, and hes on a cam that's around .600 lift with 918 springs. Here's a question for ya, when checking the pushrod length, do the hydraulic lash adjusters have to be pumped up? If so how would I go about doing that? Compressed air?
03-28-2015, 01:59 PM
#18
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Really and this is proven where! I find it funny as to how many posters get hot on the trail of doing this swap (ls1,2,6 IM) or that swap and going thru all the trouble involved to do the swap and then disappear from the site or come back raging about how this is now broke or so on and no real proof of what their mod has done.
Now as for the LS4 ported manifold from FasterProms actually flowed the manifold and tested it and it does work... I know, mel ss, knows and many others know it works for everyday use and reliability.
I could come here and say putting a high lift cam in is junk, because a lot of posters busted their engines buy installing one but I know enough that they were inexperienced in the actual math involved. Some never took the max lift .525 for our engines, some never used the stock rockers with the new cam that may of got them thru by chance ... but instead put 1.8 rockers in with the new cam and putting the lift up to like.630 and then blaming the first broken part.
Like back in the day when carb were popular some guys put 1150 cfm denominators on little 327`s ( like putting a 100mm TB on our 325) The engine cannot possibly utilize it! It is an air pump and has only so much in and out.
I see posters going LS7 maf and bragging about how well it works... how about the actual flow (accuracy) oh just insert the tables from the LS7...NOT!
they may have a slow one or they knew enough to seek and verify a fast one but no. Another is change the screen to this or this Honeycomb, nothing to back it up, the reason they all give it to straighten the flow but what if it was all about the vortexes and or eddies that are created.
Like coil over verses standard strut... there is one clown claiming go coilover and over and over but that poster only has fronts done, homemade and if I was doing a state inspection it would fail just buy looking.
Now as for the LS4 ported manifold from FasterProms actually flowed the manifold and tested it and it does work... I know, mel ss, knows and many others know it works for everyday use and reliability.
I could come here and say putting a high lift cam in is junk, because a lot of posters busted their engines buy installing one but I know enough that they were inexperienced in the actual math involved. Some never took the max lift .525 for our engines, some never used the stock rockers with the new cam that may of got them thru by chance ... but instead put 1.8 rockers in with the new cam and putting the lift up to like.630 and then blaming the first broken part.
Like back in the day when carb were popular some guys put 1150 cfm denominators on little 327`s ( like putting a 100mm TB on our 325) The engine cannot possibly utilize it! It is an air pump and has only so much in and out.
I see posters going LS7 maf and bragging about how well it works... how about the actual flow (accuracy) oh just insert the tables from the LS7...NOT!
they may have a slow one or they knew enough to seek and verify a fast one but no. Another is change the screen to this or this Honeycomb, nothing to back it up, the reason they all give it to straighten the flow but what if it was all about the vortexes and or eddies that are created.
Like coil over verses standard strut... there is one clown claiming go coilover and over and over but that poster only has fronts done, homemade and if I was doing a state inspection it would fail just buy looking.
Reliability is the same reason I'm probably not doing headers on my super.
03-28-2015, 03:48 PM
#19
Headers are hardly something that would effect reliability, its the chopped up nature of the ls6 manifold conversion that i dont trust. Covering holes with putty, self tapping screws in plastic. I wouldnt want to have something fall out and break and leave me on the side of the highway in my dd. Thats the only reason i have reservations.
03-28-2015, 05:26 PM
#20
Headers are hardly something that would effect reliability, its the chopped up nature of the ls6 manifold conversion that i dont trust. Covering holes with putty, self tapping screws in plastic. I wouldnt want to have something fall out and break and leave me on the side of the highway in my dd. Thats the only reason i have reservations.