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Hello all, I've been a long time lurker, but have run into a problem I haven't been able to solve using searches. I've recently had the "charging system failure" message come up on the DIC. Upon doing some initial investigation and having the local parts shop plug in to verify, I've ended up putting in a new alternator (Delco Remy, non-reman) and battery. I thought the problem was fixed, but I'm still getting the message. The voltage still reads 14.3V when engine is running and I've verified that at the battery terminals with a multimeter. Battery reads 12.6V when engine is off. I then changed out the voltage sensor on the negative cable (10V version matching the old one) thinking maybe it was just a faulty BCM reading. Still getting the message. Terminals are spotless and corrosion-free.
So, anyone have any next steps? I do need to schedule the recent recall (something about low beam headlights failing) with the dealership, so I can always have them investigate, but I was hoping someone might have another item for me to test/replace. I figured the only two options left might be a short in the harness somewhere, a BCM failure, or possibly something wrong with the new alternator despite it appearing to be working as-designed.
No suggestions, eh? Does anyone have a link to a diagram of the applicable grounds/alternator wiring so that I can inspect for damage/corrosion?
Ive been doing research in order to help you so I can better understand whats going on, ill reply with my findings soon, in the mean time can you see if there are any codes and respond back with your findings. If you don't have a scanner, go to autozone etc.
Edit:
So after some research, their are several codes the BCM and ECM that can cause that message to appear, get the codes, let me know.
i had similar issues. i ended up replacing the battery current sensor.
i still get random readings from the display on my voltage though, its sometimes in the high 14s, sometimes in the mid 12. somes times is steady and doesnt change, other it fluctuates with throttle. very stupid. but the charging system failure never came back.
Well, I've already replaced the current sensor with a new one. Display still fluctuates from mid-14V down to 12.7ish. I haven't found anything that seems to drive the fluctuation in particular, but it always starts out in the upper 13's or low 14's, then drops down to low 13's after a few miles, then down to the 12's after 10-15 miles.
Side note: I have confirmed that the voltage seen on the DIC matches what's shown at the battery posts via multimeter. So, the readout is correct, but I don't know that the problem stems from that simply because it will give me the "charging system failure" message without even starting the car, just with the key in the ACC/ON position.
Ive been doing research in order to help you so I can better understand whats going on, ill reply with my findings soon, in the mean time can you see if there are any codes and respond back with your findings. If you don't have a scanner, go to autozone etc.
Edit:
So after some research, their are several codes the BCM and ECM that can cause that message to appear, get the codes, let me know.
I appreciate the in-depth research. I had the local parts store run their diagnostic on the battery/starter/alternator and all came back as operating normal. I had them pull any codes, but no codes existed. It leads me to believe that the message is being triggered in the BCM, not the ECU, since there were no DTCs. However, I don't understand the electronics enough to be certain of that.
Edit: Something I just remembered that may be corollary to these issues, is that on rare occasion, the TCS/ABS will go haywire right after startup and will cause all sorts of crazy stumbling and jerking as if the TC/ABS is activating. I usually stop the car, shut it off, then start it back up and all is perfect. It hasn't happened since I replaced the battery/alternator/current sensor, but it wasn't a problem which reared its head often. I know that the EBCM and the BCM are two different items, but I don't know if they share anything common on the power/ground that might cause an issue.
Last edited by SoonerAviator; 09-01-2016 at 03:17 PM.
Well, I understand, but since my current sensor is less than 2 weeks old, and the symptoms haven't changed I can't say that it's the culprit unless the wiring to the sensor is what has gone crazy. Especially since the voltage seen at the terminals seems to sync which what's being shown on the DIC.
I'm not sure what test it runs. Typical jumper cable box on the battery terminals and it runs the diagnostic while you start the vehicle. He plugged in a separate code reader through the OBDII port, but I didn't catch the model.
what year car? also did you place it in the correct direction?
i was looking back and i remember the sensor my car needed was discontinued, but the the newer replacement one i got didnt work with it. some minor voltage differences.
It's an '07 Grand Prix GXP. The new sensor has the "tail" pointed away from the battery terminal. It's the 10V version, which matches the old sensor p/n and I also verified the harness pin voltage as being 10V. Your thread was one of the ones I read prior to purchasing the new current sensor. The only portion I didn't do was the pulling of the various fuses.
Last edited by SoonerAviator; 09-01-2016 at 07:33 PM.
We really need to see if there are any BCM codes, maybe take it to a shop with a real scan tool and see if they will scan it for you for little or nothing.
We really need to see if there are any BCM codes, maybe take it to a shop with a real scan tool and see if they will scan it for you for little or nothing.
I apologize for the delayed response to the thread. The error message still shows up at every startup, sometimes the alternator applies 14V+, sometimes the BCM tells it not to output anything and the voltage eventually drops to 12.7 or so running off of battery alone. I have a neighbor who happens to be a master mechanic for a local Dodge dealership who has the $10K Snap-On code reader equipment to read the BCM codes. He offered to bring it over this weekend to pull the codes for free, so I'll have some more information then. He obviously won't be able to re-program the BCM if I had to replace it with a new module, but I suppose there could be a code thrown that pointed to a different cause (other than faulty BCM).
I just recently had to do this as well, wound up being the battery current sensor, even though no codes were being displayed, the car was having a noticeable problem everytime it dropped into low charge mode. I wound up changing the parameters in HPTuners so that the duty cycle of the alt never drops below 50%.
I have a whole PDF on how the charging system works, but needless to say there are only really three things that control it, the current sensor, and the ECM/BCM.
I apologize for the delayed response to the thread. The error message still shows up at every startup, sometimes the alternator applies 14V+, sometimes the BCM tells it not to output anything and the voltage eventually drops to 12.7 or so running off of battery alone. I have a neighbor who happens to be a master mechanic for a local Dodge dealership who has the $10K Snap-On code reader equipment to read the BCM codes. He offered to bring it over this weekend to pull the codes for free, so I'll have some more information then. He obviously won't be able to re-program the BCM if I had to replace it with a new module, but I suppose there could be a code thrown that pointed to a different cause (other than faulty BCM).
This same message can occur when the BCM, PCM try to compare voltages and they are do not match.
B1517-52, which is starting to sound more like the problem, when the scan tool is connected, have him load the pids that shows current voltage, each module will have its own ability to monitor voltage and should have a pid, see if they all match.
also, if you can get the value of the current sensor with key on engine off, key on engine on. Just for my own curiosity
Voltage starts out at 14, then jumps around from mid 12 to high 14. I would only get the warning message rarely, but more often I would have the voltage drop sudenly to mid to high 11's and stay there unless I shut the car off and start it up again. Then it would be fine. I replaced all the same components as well. Checked and cleaned all the grounds, power wires, batt connections.
I just recently bought HP tuners. So those parameter changes for the alternator helped out then? Looks like a common problem for a lot of us.
08-29-2016, 02:04 PM
Charging System Failure - all new components 
