KENB

Ok, so most of you have probably read my problems is this thread. https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls4-performance/653190-any-one-have-issue-cold-yet.html

It happened again, but this time I have a little more data. Saturday I take the car out for about a 60km ride. I get back home put it in the garage (always 15°C/6?°F) and wash/ dry it ...usual routine. The next day I go to get in the car and notice the DIC and courtesy lights are dim. I try to turn it over and nothing...not even a click of the solenoid. I pop the hood and grab my multimeter. I got only 10.4V. Now I'm 100% sure nothing was left on that could have been left on. I then put the charger on the battery for 14 hours before the charger indicated the battery was at full charge. I check the voltage again and I get 12.65V. I checked again this morning (6 hours later) and I'm getting 12.60V. So thats a drop of 0.05V over 6 hours.....hardly enough to stop the car from starting over a 12 hour sit. So seeing this hasn't happened since my last post in the other thread (a little over a month), I can almost rule out the battery. Must be some sort of load that is periodically comming on. This is going to be a fun one!!! I hate these problems, cause I can't stand bringing my car into the dealer. Especially when they can't find a problem and look at you like an idiot thinking you left your light on or something. Anyone else out there with this prob? Lets work together!

BuffaloSS

iTrader: (3)

AFAIK, the battery run down protection should keep anything from staying on for too long. I know that my kids occasionally leave the rear dome lights on but they go off after a while...never affecting the battery. You must have some sort of parasitic draw somewhere in the system, but i have no clue where to look. You've got nothing aftermarket installed, correct? No crappy eBay cell-phone chargers that run all the time?

KENB

I have absolutely nothing aftermarket in my car. I am so against aftermarket alarms/starters ....crap like that. I know you are looking for trouble when you get that stuff installed.

live2ride

When using handheld programmers, they recommend taking the On Star fuse out during programming claiming the car can phone home and interrupt the update. Maybe it’s worth a try by removing the fuse if the problem is common and see what happens.

I still wonder about your battery. My car sat on the dealer lot for a long time before I bought it. It would start fine and then I’d run it for several hours and leave it for a day and the thing would not click. The lights would dim when I opened the door. This all happened in >70 degree temps.

Good luck.

BuffaloSS

iTrader: (3)

The only time i have trouble starting it is in the cold after running accessories for an extended period of time. I.e...waiting for my wife in the supermarket for 15min with the radio (and running lights, likely) and she'll be hard to turn over. I've also left the flashers on (car/accessories off) for 1/2 hour or so while i went home for lunch and found that it almost wouldn't start.

Anyone else notice our battery is smaller than the one for the LTZ? We got 650cca (or close) while the LTZ got 750cca (or close)...according to chevy.com.

EDIT: 3.9L = 750cca, 5.3L = 625cca

06MonteSS

yeah, when I had my battery issue back in the summer (bad cells), my dealer replaced it with an AC Delco Professional Series - 720cca. Haven't had any issues since.

KENB

I think thats a result of the space left over from having the 5.3 in the engine bay. After looking through my service manuals trying to figure out how in the world the battery comes out without tipping it more than 40°, I noticed that there are different battery trays and hold downs for the V6 models. This probably means that the batteries are physically larger in size. Honestly.....the battery "size" in our cars belongs in a Honda! Good to know that a 700CCA fits though. Maybe I'll get fed up enough to buy one myself and try it out.

SILVER LS4

This may help, no garuntee

Document ID# 1874346

2006 Chevrolet Impala


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Subject: No Crank / No Start Condition - Concern May Be Intermittent - keywords nostart nocrank #PIC3906A - (11/29/2006)



Models: 2006 Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo Built On or Before 11/30/05




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The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
No crank / no start condition. The concern may be intermittent.

Recommendation/Instructions:
This can be caused by a poor solder joint between the ignition main relay and the printed circuit board. The ignition main relay is not serviceable. If voltage checks identify a bad ignition main relay, it will be necessary to replace the Underhood Bussed Electrical Center (UBEC) to repair this condition.

A correction of this condition has been implemented into production as of November 30th, 2005.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.



GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION


© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.


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Document ID# 1874346
2006 Chevrolet Impala

Kazmaniac

Is there a way to find your vehicle's manufacture date w/o going to the dealer?

06 SS

10.4V screams open(ing) cell in the battery. Probably will hold a surface charge for a while, but any load at all or longer than a few hours at housekeeping will kill it. Battery is wasted. Replacement is required, also will want to find out why it died. See what kind of load the new one pulls with everything shut down, might have something drawing it down more than it should when the car is off.

SILVER LS4

This may be some good ifo if you didn't already know,
Document ID# 1874166
2006 Chevrolet Impala


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Subject: Info - TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns) - Canada ONLY #05-06-04-022C - (11/28/2006)



Models: 2007 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks (Canada Only)

2007 and Prior Saab Vehicles (Canada Only)

2007 and Prior Saturn Vehicles (Canada Only)

2003-2007 HUMMER H2 (Canada Only)

2006-2007 HUMMER H3 (Canada Only)




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This bulletin is being revised to add additional sources to the TOP TIER Fuel Retailers list. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-06-04-022B (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System). In the U.S., refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-047G.


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A new class of fuel called TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is appearing at retail stations of some fuel marketers. This gasoline meets detergency standards developed by four automotive companies. All vehicles will benefit from using TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline over gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" recommended by the Canadian General Standards Board (CGSB). Those vehicles that have experienced deposit related concerns may especially benefit from use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.





(1) Intake valve: 16,093 km (10,000 mi) with TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline
(2) Intake valve: 16,093 km (10,000 mi) with Minimum Additive recommended by the CGSB

Top Tier Fuel Availability
Chevron was the first to offer TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline in Canada. Shell became the first national gasoline retailer to offer TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline across Canada. Petro-Canada began offering TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline nationally as of October 1, 2006.

Gasoline Brands That Currently Meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Standards
The following gasoline brands meet the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Standards in all octane grades :

• Chevron Canada (markets in British Columbia and western Alberta)

• Shell Canada (nationally)

• Petro-Canada (nationally)

What is TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced detergency and no metallic additives. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards developed by four automotive companies that exceed the detergent recommendations of Canadian standards and does not contain metallic additives, which can damage vehicle emission control components.

Where Can TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Be Purchased?
The TOP TIER program began in the U.S. and Canada on May 3, 2004. Some fuel marketers have already joined and introduced TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline. This is a voluntary program and not all fuel marketers will offer this product. Once fuel marketers make public announcements, they will appear on a list of brands that meet the TOP TIER standards.

Who developed TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards were developed by four automotive companies: BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota.

Why was TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline developed?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline was developed to increase the level of detergent additive in gasoline. In the U.S., government regulations require that all gasoline sold in the U.S. contain a detergent additive. However, the requirement is minimal and in many cases, is not sufficient to keep engines clean. In Canada, gasoline standards recommend adherence to U.S. detergency requirements but do not require it. In fact, many brands of gasoline in Canada do not contain any detergent additive. In order to meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards, a higher level of detergent is needed than what is required or recommended, and no metallic additives are allowed. Also, TOP TIER was developed to give fuel marketers the opportunity to differentiate their product.

Why did the four automotive companies join together to develop TOP TIER?
All four corporations recognized the benefits to both the vehicle and the consumer. Also, joining together emphasized that low detergency and the intentional addition of metallic additives is an issue of concern to several automotive companies.

What are the benefits of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner than gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" recommended by Canadian standards. Clean engines help provide optimal fuel economy and engine performance, and also provide reduced emissions. Also, the use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help reduce deposit related concerns.

Who should use TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?
All vehicles will benefit from using TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline over gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" recommended by Canadian standards. Those vehicles that have experienced deposit related concerns may especially benefit from use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.



GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION


© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Document ID# 1874166
2006 Chevrolet Impala

KENB

In the above Document ID# 1874346.....would the battery go dead or just not start. Cause my battery is dropping to 10.?v when this happens to me. A month ago I was first in line to say it's the battery. I was so sure! But after having the dealer perform a load test on the battery and reporting back that all is fine, and me running the car for over a month after that without an issue, I'm not so sure anymore. I would love the dealer to change out the battery with a new one to at least rule out one possibility, but they will not do it till a load test tells them too. A parasitic draw test can be performed as I read in my Service manuals, but it sounds like a very intensive and time consuming procedure. Plus if the problem is intermitent, ther is no garantees that the parasitic draw test will catch the problem. This means the car will end up sitting at the dealers for months!

Kazmaniac

Found a 02 / 06 on the door tag ... assuming manufactured Feb '06?

SILVER LS4

Give me you vin no. and I'll tell you.

Kazmaniac

Thanks! I'll PM you this afternoon.

SILVER LS4

That will tell you also.

06 SS

Ken, I am telling you it as a bad cell in your battery. About 50% of my time at work is spent installing uninteruptable power supplies (read:banks of batteries). When a cell starts to go bad, they will first start showing greater internal resistance and a higher charging rate at that cell. A graph of a discharging car battery will show an initial drop in voltage over a fairly short period of time, the voltage will come up from the initial dip until it is close to the starting voltage, then it will go into a fairly linear decay until the battery tips over, at that point the voltage will drop like a stone. They usually do not fail at once, they take a while while they get worse and worse. An intermittant failure of an internal cell that seems to heal itself spontanously is not uncommon. Your problem is going to get worse and worse until it does not recover at all. A light load test will not catch the problem unless they load it long enough to start tipping it over (can take hours)

06MonteSS

yup - what 06 SS says... bad cell(s) in the battery - that's what happened to mine... after only having the car for about 8 months, I noticed the last few times before it died that it seemed to struggle to start, then one day, DEAD - nothing at all.

I could jump it and it would run fine, as long as I didn't turn it off. As soon as I did, I could try turning the key again in about 30 seconds and it was deader than a door nail.

After I drove it to the dealer, and they had to jump it to get it in the shop, they did some sort of test on it and found there to be 2 bad cells. so they gave me the new AC Delco Pro Series w/720cca...

KENB

Everythhing your telling me makes sense. Unfortuneately it still doesn't give the proof I need to get a new battery under warranty. No failed load test, no new battery! I've been observing the battery voltage closely now and this is what I've found so far.

Saturday Evening (right after a full charge) 12.68V
Monday Morning 12.60V
Monday Evening 12.48V
Tuesday Morning 12.41V

The car hasn't moved with the hood up in my heated garage...no doors/trunk opened.

Shouldn't a good battery be over 13V when fully charged? Does this drop seem normal. at this rate the battery will be in the 11V range in a week. To me a car should be able to sit a month without having to worry about disconnecting the battery.

06 SS

The only active test I can think of that would give a very strong indication of the battery cells condition is an internal resistance test. The equipment needed for that is about $3500 and a dealer is not going to have it.

You can try turning on your lights, radio, blower fan, etc and try to get some load on the battery, if the voltage starts dropping right away (and fairly quickly) then a cell is opening up. For a car battery, I would consider it tipped over (dead) at 1.75V per cell (10.5V at the terminals).

I realize that is of no help to you on getting it fixed, but if you lose 0.5V in 2 minutes of loading it up a bit (very, very rough estimate), it is going to fail pretty soon. Gives you a little advance warning I suppose.

Good luck with it.
-D