Tell us about new build "Gotchas" you've found
11-20-2008, 08:50 AM
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Tell us about new build "Gotchas" you've found When building a new motor, you often run into things that you didn't expect.
Things that only someone who's done it could have warned you about and
that wouldn't come up in searches until it actually happened to you and you
now have the correct keywords LOL
Things like
When using 4-bolt splayed caps, you can't actually get the stock dipstick back in
without a little bending, and only if you realize that it needs to be done before
installing the motor in the car.
or
Head castings are designed such that they can be used on either side.
Aftermarket castings do not come with water-jacket plugs, the unused steam pipe
and coolant temp sensor ports must be caped, otherwise coolant will spill out everywhere.
or
Canton "stock replacement" pans cause the oil level sensor to be up against
the primaries on Hooker long-tube headers. You can fix the pan if you notice
this before installing the motor in the car. (or you can live without an oil level sensor)
Things that only someone who's done it could have warned you about and
that wouldn't come up in searches until it actually happened to you and you
now have the correct keywords LOL
Things like
When using 4-bolt splayed caps, you can't actually get the stock dipstick back in
without a little bending, and only if you realize that it needs to be done before
installing the motor in the car.
or
Head castings are designed such that they can be used on either side.
Aftermarket castings do not come with water-jacket plugs, the unused steam pipe
and coolant temp sensor ports must be caped, otherwise coolant will spill out everywhere.
or
Canton "stock replacement" pans cause the oil level sensor to be up against
the primaries on Hooker long-tube headers. You can fix the pan if you notice
this before installing the motor in the car. (or you can live without an oil level sensor)
11-20-2008, 11:05 AM
#5
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Camaro 140 amp alternator requires a 570ohm resistor in the exciter wire to not burn itself out, if you figure it out before you burn it up ($140).
If you can't lower your fuel pressure in a swap give the return line a second look, mine was too small, before you buy a shiny Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, install it and have the same problem ($165+4$50..overnight
Aftermarket "bolt in" motor mounts that have to be cut, modified, and welded to work...after they are powder coated.
Nobody makes D port headers for an LT1/Toyota conversion (20hrs of time)
American Autowire Factory fit harnesses do not resemble or fit like factory!
70 elcamino/wagon fenders do not interchange with a coupe. Ask me how I know.
no matter how hard you try you will not fit a Weiand 144ci blower, carb, and air cleaner under the stock 70 Chevlle cowl hood.
Most aftermarket radiators don't have a drain pitcock....grrr.
Never, ever, ever, tear apart a rare steering column..unless you know what you are doing or have a lot of time to waste on the learning process. I know it looks simple.
A stock heavy duty clutch will not hold up to 575hp, 2.73's and a locker, not even for a little while, (1500).
A 71' big block GMC really does get single digit mileage, no bullshit! Not a good daily driver.
If you can't lower your fuel pressure in a swap give the return line a second look, mine was too small, before you buy a shiny Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, install it and have the same problem ($165+4$50..overnight
Aftermarket "bolt in" motor mounts that have to be cut, modified, and welded to work...after they are powder coated.
Nobody makes D port headers for an LT1/Toyota conversion (20hrs of time)
American Autowire Factory fit harnesses do not resemble or fit like factory!
70 elcamino/wagon fenders do not interchange with a coupe. Ask me how I know.
no matter how hard you try you will not fit a Weiand 144ci blower, carb, and air cleaner under the stock 70 Chevlle cowl hood.
Most aftermarket radiators don't have a drain pitcock....grrr.
Never, ever, ever, tear apart a rare steering column..unless you know what you are doing or have a lot of time to waste on the learning process. I know it looks simple.
A stock heavy duty clutch will not hold up to 575hp, 2.73's and a locker, not even for a little while, (1500).
A 71' big block GMC really does get single digit mileage, no bullshit! Not a good daily driver.
11-20-2008, 11:39 AM
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Yup $2,000 for the FORGED turn key engine with accessories and all then another $1,000 for new oil pump bearings rod bolts and other **** he cobbed together.
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11-20-2008, 11:56 AM
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hahah i've probably got a million...... but here are a few off the top of my head....
When budgeting a motor build, take the number you think it's going to cost and multiply times about 1.3-1.5 depending on how exotic your build is.... The more fabrication required the higher the multiple..... it covers stuff that you don't usually budget for like gaskets,seals,oil,fluids,labor,etc......
If you have a BMR K-member, you CANNOT use Moroso solid steel motor mounts on both sides of the motor.... The motor will end up sitting straight and your tranny will hit the top of the tunnel if you're even lucky enough to get that far.... You have to use a stock motor mount on the drivers side. You can use the stock box deal on the passenger side and bolt it up to the BMR poly mount on that side..... you need a stocker for the dvr side due to the 2 degree downangle the motor requires for drivetrain fitment.... solid mounts don't have the angle built in but the stock k-mbr does.... the BMR k-mbr doesn't have it built in either.... The rubber motor mount will give you the angle you need due to weight "sag"....
After you put your new motor in after every heat and cooling cycle go back over your header bolts and tighten them when the motor has cooled.... YOu will usually get about an 1/8 of a turn... you'll never blow out exhaust header gaskets if you do it this way for about 2 weeks....
Don't run with scissors...
again mentioning stock dipsticks and 4 bolt mains... You should check dipstick clearance with the caps PRIOR to bolting the oil pan on. Generally the tube will need to be shortened about 1-2" and you can flatten the dipstick out so it doesn't get hung up on the cap itself or the tray in the pan...
When you have your oil pump out and you are putting on your pickup do the smart thing and have someone tack your pickup onto it once you have tested it with your pan to make sure it is the right distance off the floor of the pan. Press it in lightly, bolt it up and allow the pan to push it down to where it needs to be. I usually rotate it a tiny bit further from there so it's not actually touching the pan itself.... Keep it there and push it all the way in and have it tack welded so it can never fall off..... If it falls off cause of the press fit your motor is most likely toast.....
When budgeting a motor build, take the number you think it's going to cost and multiply times about 1.3-1.5 depending on how exotic your build is.... The more fabrication required the higher the multiple..... it covers stuff that you don't usually budget for like gaskets,seals,oil,fluids,labor,etc......
If you have a BMR K-member, you CANNOT use Moroso solid steel motor mounts on both sides of the motor.... The motor will end up sitting straight and your tranny will hit the top of the tunnel if you're even lucky enough to get that far.... You have to use a stock motor mount on the drivers side. You can use the stock box deal on the passenger side and bolt it up to the BMR poly mount on that side..... you need a stocker for the dvr side due to the 2 degree downangle the motor requires for drivetrain fitment.... solid mounts don't have the angle built in but the stock k-mbr does.... the BMR k-mbr doesn't have it built in either.... The rubber motor mount will give you the angle you need due to weight "sag"....
After you put your new motor in after every heat and cooling cycle go back over your header bolts and tighten them when the motor has cooled.... YOu will usually get about an 1/8 of a turn... you'll never blow out exhaust header gaskets if you do it this way for about 2 weeks....
Don't run with scissors...
again mentioning stock dipsticks and 4 bolt mains... You should check dipstick clearance with the caps PRIOR to bolting the oil pan on. Generally the tube will need to be shortened about 1-2" and you can flatten the dipstick out so it doesn't get hung up on the cap itself or the tray in the pan...
When you have your oil pump out and you are putting on your pickup do the smart thing and have someone tack your pickup onto it once you have tested it with your pan to make sure it is the right distance off the floor of the pan. Press it in lightly, bolt it up and allow the pan to push it down to where it needs to be. I usually rotate it a tiny bit further from there so it's not actually touching the pan itself.... Keep it there and push it all the way in and have it tack welded so it can never fall off..... If it falls off cause of the press fit your motor is most likely toast.....
11-20-2008, 12:01 PM
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when budgeting a motor build, take the number you think it's going to cost and multiply times about 1.3-1.5 depending on how exotic your build is.... The more fabrication required the higher the multiple..... It covers stuff that you don't usually budget for like gaskets,seals,oil,fluids,labor,etc......
11-21-2008, 08:42 AM
#11
again mentioning stock dipsticks and 4 bolt mains... You should check dipstick clearance with the caps PRIOR to bolting the oil pan on. Generally the tube will need to be shortened about 1-2" and you can flatten the dipstick out so it doesn't get hung up on the cap itself or the tray in the pan...
11-21-2008, 01:30 PM
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Header bolts need to be checked after the first heat cycle and less and less often thereafter
Rockers should not be overtightened as it will cause valves to stay open at high RPM once the lifters fill with pressure.
Flowbench numbers are only one of many indicators of a head's potential
Same goes for intake port volume
Exhaust/Intake flow ratios are not nearly as significant as some may believe.
Port shape, Valve Job and Short Side radius are much more important.
Stall speed is only one part of Torque Converter selection
Matching portwork to gaskets will hurt air velocity.
More duration does not always mean more power.
In fact, more duration can push peak HP RPM well outside of your usable range.
More lift is not always better either.
Cast cams do not stand up to extreme spring pressure very well
Aggressive cam lobes require extreme spring pressure. (IE: Billet cams are your friend)
Sprint install height is critical.
Proper spring selection negates the need to use "rev kits"
Proper stud selection negates the need to use girdles
More compression does not necessarily mean more power.
Excessive compression without adequate octane will cause you to pull timing and ruin performance.
11.0:1 - 11.5:1 seem to provide the widest range of choices for an N/A motor.
Do not use thick head gaskets to adjust CR, select proper pistons and combustion chamber sizes.
Even with .004" piston/cylinder clearance, pistons will "rock" which decreases the
distance between the piston and the head surface. This is why people generally
recommend maintaining a .035" or larger quench. Keep this in mind when selecting deck
height and head gaskets.
Zero-decking a block allows you to bring the piston to the top of the hole and improve quench.
This helps resist detonation and improves combustion, but it also impacts your head gasket choices.
Too thin, and your piston will impact the head.
The bottom end of the motor is something you should invest in the first time and not
plan on having to do over again anytime soon. Plan ahead and be sure the motor you
build will meet your future needs. (Unless you like spending time and money twice)
Studded mains and 4-bolt conversions are solid investments for motors that will see
high cylinder pressure (IE: power adders). Keeping bearings under control is key
to long-term survival of your motor.
Solid roller cams can make more power than hydraulic roller cams but require frequent
valve adjustment and periodic spring replacement. Shaft-mount rockers can significantly
reduce the frequency of valve adjustments. Solids can make more power because they
can handle much steeper lobes.
Shaft-mount rockers provide minimal gains over properly designed stud-mount rockers and
only at 6000+rpm. (I'm talking 2rwhp VS aluminum roller rockers on a 500hp motor)
Lower LSA numbers do not necessarily mean more "lope", but you can use LSA, Centerline
and duration@0.050 to determine the valve overlap (both valves open at once).
More overlap tends to produce more power up high, sacrificing idle quality.
(This is a common design choice for non-DD N/A motors.)
Pushrod measurement is important to maximizing performance of your valvetrain.
A pushrod check tool can be used to determine which length produces the most effective geometry.
Too long and the valve will drift towards the exhaust side.
Too short and the valve will drift towards the intake side.
Ideally, the valve should remain as close to the center as possible.
The stock PCM locks the torque converter at 75mph (at WOT).
Most tuners increase TCC lock MPH to improve track times.
It can be disabled alltogether (will stick lock up at part throttle if desired)
The stock PCM (specifically 94-97 LT1) will cut fuel at 7200rpm.
This is often used by racers as a rev limiter for motors designed to handle that level of RPM.
Longer strokes push the crank and rod further from the center of the motor in all directions.
That means more clearancing of the block (sides, near the pan mating surface) and
decreased space between the rod and the camshaft.
To keep the piston from being pushed above the stock deck, pistons must be replaced
with ones designed specifically for that stroke. (IE: rod pin "deeper" inside piston)
Increased stroke produces more torque at lower RPM.
Increased displacement "squeezes" power curves, allowing more cam duration without excessive RPM.
The "stepped" header design helps resist reversion, useful with cams designs that include
a significant amount of overlap.
Rockers should not be overtightened as it will cause valves to stay open at high RPM once the lifters fill with pressure.
Flowbench numbers are only one of many indicators of a head's potential
Same goes for intake port volume
Exhaust/Intake flow ratios are not nearly as significant as some may believe.
Port shape, Valve Job and Short Side radius are much more important.
Stall speed is only one part of Torque Converter selection
Matching portwork to gaskets will hurt air velocity.
More duration does not always mean more power.
In fact, more duration can push peak HP RPM well outside of your usable range.
More lift is not always better either.
Cast cams do not stand up to extreme spring pressure very well
Aggressive cam lobes require extreme spring pressure. (IE: Billet cams are your friend)
Sprint install height is critical.
Proper spring selection negates the need to use "rev kits"
Proper stud selection negates the need to use girdles
More compression does not necessarily mean more power.
Excessive compression without adequate octane will cause you to pull timing and ruin performance.
11.0:1 - 11.5:1 seem to provide the widest range of choices for an N/A motor.
Do not use thick head gaskets to adjust CR, select proper pistons and combustion chamber sizes.
Even with .004" piston/cylinder clearance, pistons will "rock" which decreases the
distance between the piston and the head surface. This is why people generally
recommend maintaining a .035" or larger quench. Keep this in mind when selecting deck
height and head gaskets.
Zero-decking a block allows you to bring the piston to the top of the hole and improve quench.
This helps resist detonation and improves combustion, but it also impacts your head gasket choices.
Too thin, and your piston will impact the head.
The bottom end of the motor is something you should invest in the first time and not
plan on having to do over again anytime soon. Plan ahead and be sure the motor you
build will meet your future needs. (Unless you like spending time and money twice)
Studded mains and 4-bolt conversions are solid investments for motors that will see
high cylinder pressure (IE: power adders). Keeping bearings under control is key
to long-term survival of your motor.
Solid roller cams can make more power than hydraulic roller cams but require frequent
valve adjustment and periodic spring replacement. Shaft-mount rockers can significantly
reduce the frequency of valve adjustments. Solids can make more power because they
can handle much steeper lobes.
Shaft-mount rockers provide minimal gains over properly designed stud-mount rockers and
only at 6000+rpm. (I'm talking 2rwhp VS aluminum roller rockers on a 500hp motor)
Lower LSA numbers do not necessarily mean more "lope", but you can use LSA, Centerline
and duration@0.050 to determine the valve overlap (both valves open at once).
More overlap tends to produce more power up high, sacrificing idle quality.
(This is a common design choice for non-DD N/A motors.)
Pushrod measurement is important to maximizing performance of your valvetrain.
A pushrod check tool can be used to determine which length produces the most effective geometry.
Too long and the valve will drift towards the exhaust side.
Too short and the valve will drift towards the intake side.
Ideally, the valve should remain as close to the center as possible.
The stock PCM locks the torque converter at 75mph (at WOT).
Most tuners increase TCC lock MPH to improve track times.
It can be disabled alltogether (will stick lock up at part throttle if desired)
The stock PCM (specifically 94-97 LT1) will cut fuel at 7200rpm.
This is often used by racers as a rev limiter for motors designed to handle that level of RPM.
Longer strokes push the crank and rod further from the center of the motor in all directions.
That means more clearancing of the block (sides, near the pan mating surface) and
decreased space between the rod and the camshaft.
To keep the piston from being pushed above the stock deck, pistons must be replaced
with ones designed specifically for that stroke. (IE: rod pin "deeper" inside piston)
Increased stroke produces more torque at lower RPM.
Increased displacement "squeezes" power curves, allowing more cam duration without excessive RPM.
The "stepped" header design helps resist reversion, useful with cams designs that include
a significant amount of overlap.
11-22-2008, 04:41 PM
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Things like
When using 4-bolt splayed caps, you can't actually get the stock dipstick back in
without a little bending, and only if you realize that it needs to be done before
installing the motor in the car.
or
Head castings are designed such that they can be used on either side.
Aftermarket castings do not come with water-jacket plugs, the unused steam pipe
and coolant temp sensor ports must be caped, otherwise coolant will spill out everywhere.
When using 4-bolt splayed caps, you can't actually get the stock dipstick back in
without a little bending, and only if you realize that it needs to be done before
installing the motor in the car.
or
Head castings are designed such that they can be used on either side.
Aftermarket castings do not come with water-jacket plugs, the unused steam pipe
and coolant temp sensor ports must be caped, otherwise coolant will spill out everywhere.
Things that happend to me like I said
Heads on wrong, had to take the caps off the "back" and put them back in the front.
Dipstick did not want to go in nicely.
EDIT: I forgot we pulled it out after we put it back in, nothing out of the ordinary we saw, I guess it must be ok
Last edited by bombebomb; 11-22-2008 at 05:23 PM.
11-22-2008, 09:36 PM
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Found a new one tonight
94-97 have oil pressure sensors up at the top of the block.
93s have one on the side, just above the oil filter.
Whichever you don't use, plug or you end up with an oil fountain when your try to fire the motor up.
When I called around to ask local board members about it, it seems like everyone knew about this but me
(And he guy who assembled my motor for a 94+ instead of for 93, apparently)
Should read ok, fill the motor with the recommended amount of oil and see what it says.
Wherever it is, needs to be your new "full" mark.
Also true in cases where you use an aftermarket pan.
94-97 have oil pressure sensors up at the top of the block.
93s have one on the side, just above the oil filter.
Whichever you don't use, plug or you end up with an oil fountain when your try to fire the motor up.
When I called around to ask local board members about it, it seems like everyone knew about this but me
(And he guy who assembled my motor for a 94+ instead of for 93, apparently)
So thats why my oil dipstick was so hard to put in! Heads happend to me aswell. My dipstick went in very hard, but it went in after useing a pair of vice grips and a hammer, is that bad? Should it still read correct lol? Eww, needing to cut some of the stick off? This is sounding bad for me.
Wherever it is, needs to be your new "full" mark.
Also true in cases where you use an aftermarket pan.
11-23-2008, 03:05 AM
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Found a new one tonight
94-97 have oil pressure sensors up at the top of the block.
93s have one on the side, just above the oil filter.
Whichever you don't use, plug or you end up with an oil fountain when your try to fire the motor up.
When I called around to ask local board members about it, it seems like everyone knew about this but me
(And he guy who assembled my motor for a 94+ instead of for 93, apparently)
Should read ok, fill the motor with the recommended amount of oil and see what it says.
Wherever it is, needs to be your new "full" mark.
Also true in cases where you use an aftermarket pan.
94-97 have oil pressure sensors up at the top of the block.
93s have one on the side, just above the oil filter.
Whichever you don't use, plug or you end up with an oil fountain when your try to fire the motor up.
When I called around to ask local board members about it, it seems like everyone knew about this but me
(And he guy who assembled my motor for a 94+ instead of for 93, apparently)
Should read ok, fill the motor with the recommended amount of oil and see what it says.
Wherever it is, needs to be your new "full" mark.
Also true in cases where you use an aftermarket pan.
11-23-2008, 04:08 PM
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When I did my cam, at around 100 k miles, it seemed like a good idea to use a new timeing chain and oil pump- hey, I was there already- not a single person mentioned that the O-ring on the pickup might be a little baked and deformed, and wouldn't seal properly- car wouldn't hold oil pressure at idle 'til I went back in and replaces the $3 part that should have been a no-brainer