License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

I have a 93 Camaro Z28 LT1 6 speed I need to pull my engine and tranny out of...I have all the necessary parts in my car to transfer to any other 93-97 car......

my question is can I use a V6 model? What are my concerns electrically?

I DO NOT WANT to re-wire electrical harnesses or the entire car.....I do not mind unplugging my ECM and plugging it into another car....I also do not mind reprogramming a PCM from Auto to M6 if that is possible?? or necessary if I go to an AUTO 94+....(I am guessing I cannot just plug my pcm into it. so I may just need to reprogram it....or will an auto pcm not work at all with a M6 setup?)

I just do not want to run electrical wiring....what are my options?

I should be able to take my tranny mount and engine bay/carriage over to the other car with no problems......my main concerns are computer and electrical.......

I am only wanting to move out of my car because it has the camaro gangsta lean....and it bothers me just to know it has it.

Please help.

1slo_camaro

iTrader: (2)

alright if you swap to a V6 camaro. you will have to pull your harness out of you engine and plug it into the V6 car. and change the dash/gauge cluster. you can use a auto computer with a M6 because nothing electrically controls your tranny. (plainly speaking) you cannot use a M6 computer in a Auto it wont **** correct. is that all? anything else?

94Z28rag

iTrader: (10)

I wouldn't use a V6 car to do the swap. If nothing else, the suspension isn't set up for the big, heavy V8. You also don't want wiring issues, so that's another reason to get into another V8 car.


What is a "Camaro gangsta lean?"

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

When u use an auto computer with an M6 does it still plug into the VSS that the M6 has....and your wrong I think there are some other little plugs that do send some signals to the computer.....but yes I do believe they don't ultimately control your ability to shift or not. what about the rlockout solenoid it gets tripped by the pcm right?

If and thats a big IF becuz I dont want to rewire crap....If I went to the V6 I would be bringing my engine harness/subframe with me....it should just bolt right up.....so suspension outside of maybe rear spring rates really should not be an issue for ppl who DO have the desire to re-wire their original harness.

94Z28rag
Camaro gangsta lean is the dreaded lean or drop on one side usually the passenger's by about 2-3 inches lower than the other.

Can any1 else offer some more expertise on this seemingly simple situation.

It looks like I may need to find another Z28 to avoid rewiring but the question of auto or M6 is still a problem...and we all know an M6 is harder to find and possibly more costly....if I went to later years of OBD2 shouldnt I be able to just program it as if it was an M6? (94+ right)

kgkern01

iTrader: (10)

So you want to spend all the time and work to swap the LT1 to a V6 car rather than just fix a simple suspension problem?

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Nah dood I've thrown money at it already...most of my local guys are too lazy they keep approaching the problem just "by eye" and it's not a suspension problem cuz I went that route already....its the chassis is tweaked......not hugely bad.....and the car can still be aligned ok....but the alignment shops sometimes have a hard time.....

It looks like it is the right side front arm. But these azzhole shops down here don't like to go from the straightening lift back onto the just the regular lift to re-check their work with the computerized measuring tool....they like to measure first...then make their would be corrections....and then say we're done.....well after I did that once and not for cheap let me tell you....I then took it to the alignment shop after alignment I lost the 3 inches again....so basically when he pulled on my car....he just pulled out my alignment and that made the car seem straight on both sides....but once realigned becuz the guys have to make harsh adjustments to get her straight....it lost the 3 inches......what else can I do at this point? but fuggin kill myself transferring my good tranny and now in need of rebuilding engine......im not a happy camper....
I have fukn 4 DA Koni's sitting in my shed for over a fukn year cuz of this...and for all I know the minute I install them the seals will break from sitting. Those were not cheap either.
All becuz of lazy ppl.....there are so many in the world....other shops who do have the computers as well....only want insurance jobs and no walk-ins...do u know how many times I've wanted to punch these ppl square in the face?

94Z28rag

iTrader: (10)

I programmed my Auto PCM to accept the M6 swap. Called Bryan at PCMforless, told him I was swapping in an M6, sent me the tune, loaded it, done. Pretty simple.

And I have no idea what you're talking about as far as the suspension "lean" goes. You're not making sense.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

My car sits lower on one side. by about 2-3inches...
here's a google search result:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...+side&aq=f&oq=

it some kind of phenomena.....but i guess the proper de-mysteryizing term would be "chassis tweaked"....

Thanks man u answered what I needed to know....later model PCM can be reprogrammed "just as I suspected"

I guess it would be best for me to just find another Z28 for minimal hassle.

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

If you are going to go through all of the effort to swap the engine and transmission just swap all of the wiring. You won't have to rewire anything. Just take the old stuff out and replace it with wiring that came out of your car. It is extremely simple, but can be time consuming. It will give you a chance to take a bunch of useless weight out of the car at the same time.

94Z28rag

iTrader: (10)

Either you got into an accident and something is bent or something in the suspension broke. It didn't just happen out of the blue and is not a defect is what I'm saying. It more than likely is fixable at a reputable shop unless you bent the **** out of the frame somehow...like a bad accident.

1slo_camaro

iTrader: (2)

ok well i swapped my car over from a V6 A4 to a LT1 M6 to a 383 M6 to a 383 A4. so ive been through a few computers. and yes you can use a A4 comp in a M6 car. ive done it. and nothing was wrong. when i tried to use the M6 comp in the A4 car it didnt work.



if you wanna get a V6 car. i would swap everything. obviously you got the idea up front. subfarme and wiring. really not hard. you have the PCM wires and a huge plug on the DS that goes through your firewall. with a bolt through it. i would recommend swapping the rear out as well. i never noticed a difference between the V6 car springs and the Z28 springs. in the back. thats just me though.

lifeisgood

iTrader: (4)

well there isnt a frame.
only subframes. and you can tweak the car if you have enough power.
or no subframe connectors.
my SS was a rebuilt title. after the frame shop got done with it, it is still lower on the pass side front end. but aligns fine.
it will be going back to the frame shop

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

This is exactly my situation I've been to a frame shop as well...and the attitude is ...either I do it by eye....or if I take a computer reading I will only read it once.......becuz it requires pulling the car off and back on 2 different lifts.....lazy ppl ...thats all it comes down to. and not every1 has the special computer that makes the frame readings from a leveled floor or standing....the other few that have it...send u to hell if your not an insurance job.

94Z28---your right I agree with u...and have tended to disagree with a lot of readings that it is a factory default or setting so that when we sit in the car the car re-aligns with the drivers weight...I've always thought that to be bullchit....the car's been tweaked...that's all......and I wish I could just overlook it cuz the work I'm going to do is not perrrty. I may just end up parting the car out...especially since I got a rod knocking now.

But I want to thank u all for clearing those items up....I'm going to try and cruise around miami to find a blown engine Z28 and try to haggle them down....to a low cost swap for me. And then maybe re-vive all my dreams of a cherry frame and bodies Z28....years with this problem.....literally.

I may try one last frame shop...but I'm not optimistic to be honest...and I doubt that to even look at it will be free....pushing me more into my above 2 options.

kgkern01

iTrader: (10)

You say a 3" difference? That is a HUGE amount of difference side vs side, unless that is an exaggeration. What is the ACTUAL measured variance on the car per side? (ie. FR vs FL then RR vs RL?)

Also, what makes you think it is the right side front arm? Is it level in rear and sagging in the front, or is it level in the front and sagging in the rear (most common issue)? If it is from an A-arm and has never been in an accident, etc, it could be a shot A-arm bushing, or notorious Castor bushing. If that were the case, it would always cause you alignment to be thrown off because the bad bushing would allow for play in the arm.

If it is in the rear, it is a common f-body problem, but usually within an inch of the opposite side. Have you tried an adjustable panhard bar? The panhard bar causes jacking of one side of the car. Or adjustable springs with those Koni's? I had a slight 1/2-3/4" lean in the rear, then swapped the stock suspension for Ground Control coil-overs, 600/175# springs with Koni SA's, and also replaced ALL bushings on the car with Prothanes. Problem was solved.

Also what do you mean about your Koni's busting the seals from sitting? What do you think happens after they are created? They sit in the warehour or store until someone buys them. Or do you mean if the car just sits there? That doesn't make much sense either because that would mean EVERY autox/RR/etc guy that garages their cars over the winter would be "blowing" their seals every year. Neither is the case whatsoever.

I'm just trying to solve your problem with the leaning before you shell out some unnecessary money/time for another car if it is a repairable problem.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Ok I am an exagerrater...tis tru.

RR sits with a 4 inch gap from tire to lip of fender.
LR sits with a 2.5 inch gap from tire to lip of fender.

RF sits with a 3 inch gap from tire to lip of fender.
LF sits with a 2.5 inch gap from tire to lip of fender.

What u say makes sense I had at one point thought about that but didnt get much feedback about the effects of a bad panhard bar.

But what about the alignment guys having such a hard time? they've told me....dude we got your car straight but something was up...they guy told me you will drive straight but it was no easy task to nudge the arms in the right way.....definitely not the worst he had seen but absolutely not right...I freakin interogatted his opinion for sure.

I definitely appreciate your help....and definitely thank u for the releif on the seals for the great set of shocks I have sitting. Let me know the rest of your thoughts I'll definitely weight them in.

The last frame shop I went to did find the upper control arm bent some....so I got them another one which when compared you could see a difference... along with "new" lower and shock and springs....(all the rest did not show any damage tho)....and the bushings didnt look new but were not you know toasted.

The frame shop fugged about with the right arm(the pillar arm connnected to the unibody)hammering it up or down I dont rememebr......but in the end the result was I drove off with the car even on all four points...I was happy....but had to get re-aligned.....I went to the alignment shop...and the guy had a hard time...and the problem cam back...so actuallly....that may have been when I ruled out the panhard bar as being the problem...and I think concluded the problem to be very pronounced on the right front arm pillar connected to the unibody........(sorry for not remembering the correct name).

Also the fender sits lower in comparison to where it meets the door....you almost can't tell but if you look at the side mirror and u know where there's like a shape or molding where they sorta match each other u could see that definitely the right fender is flush with the level of the side mirror....where as the left fender is slightly higher where it meets the side mirror...which I think is the correct difference.....

ah I dont know it just seems like the problem is bad enough to not warrant my gorgeous koni's or my front end rebuild with poly bushings.

94Z28rag

iTrader: (10)

Semantics. Everyone knew what I meant.

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

If you are going to try and swap it into another Z28 you are going to have to find another 93 or end up rewiring it anyways. You can find V6 cars for cheap and your insurance will cost less. I would try to rectify your current situation first.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I understand you saying that finding a competent alignment shoppe is a SOB. Best of luck to you, whatever you do with your car.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

This is the primary problem....the technology exists its just these SOBs dont want to take the car back off the pulling lift to the regular lift just to measure...they just don't want to go back and forth. And you have to...if you intend to dial the frame back in properly. I think that with the right shop a problem like this can be brought back into close enough specs....becuz reality is it will probably never be back to factory cuz metal stretches and thats that......but yea I think it's either swap to another car or part it out...a damm shame.

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

^ Drive to another shop. Obviously the car can move and you aren't too happy with these people. Why keep taking it there? At least tell them what you want to have done and say you won't pay them unless they do.

Also at least attempt to use some proper grammar. You are making a conscious effort to spell like an idiot. It makes me not want to read your posts.