ORedRoc4

iTrader: (15)

So I just finished a "heads-up" rebuild which included new timing chain, cam sprocket, hub sprocket, water pump, !Air, TB coolant bypass, fel-pro head gaskets, fel-pro head bolts, fel-pro header gaskets, new ancillary belt, fel-pro oil pan gasket, Fel-pro intake gasket and a head skim. All of these parts were advanced auto parts due to the fact that its just a DD and me being unemployed.

I cleaned all block threads with a tap, and I used an advanced auto cheap-o torque wrench. While i was torquing down the first head, i snapped one of the two short bolts into the block, the back one of all. It was the drivers side on the third and final pass to 65 ft/lbs. I immediately stopped and came back the next day after some rest and much needed . Next day, tore the head back off and removed the stud. So i re-used an old bolt (i know, ya'll-> <-Me) and again on my third pass another one snapped again! This time being one of the longer ones. And again i reused an old bolt. Please, no ban.

The passenger side went in with-out a hitch and i finished the car up today. Now before i used the old bolt and with all the re-torquing of the new bolts, i knew there may be some problems becuase of my short-cut, particularly with the water and oil mixing. So when i started it i drove it easy around the block a few times, each lap checking the oil and coolant levels and sure enough the valve covers became milky. Its parked back in the garage, hood off and ready for tomorrow morning while i again

Now, my question is on the head bolts. Since they are "new", can i just remove the drivers side head bolts one at a time and put permatex torque seal and re-install them and re-torque them one at a time? The bolts were pre-sealed from fel-pro. But after the removing and re-installing...

What would you guys do? Hows do you guys install yalls head bolts? Remember this a stock DD, almost positive there is no bottom-end damage, and i know for a fact the head bolts are leaking water into the oil. Oil level is WAY high now from the water and I'd prefer not to have to take it completely apart again considering its been like 3 weeks of work...

-Justin

MTBSully

iTrader: (7)

if you ask me, i would spend the $60 and get some ARP head bolts. About a year ago i stripped a spark plug hole in the PS head and had to pull it off. I replaced it with a stock gasket and felpro head bolts from autozone. Torqued to 65ft lbs. 150 miles later, head gasket leaked again.


Second time, i used all ARP head bolts and felpro 1074 head gaskets. I torqued mine to 75ft lbs in 3 passes and then proceeded to beat on my camaro for 3000 miles before selling it last october.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

The stock bolts are called "torque to yield". That is, they can be used once and only once. Then toss them or they could break on you, which you found out.
I suggest getting ARP bolts and be done with it, since they can be reused. I guess it depends on how much you enjoy pulling those heads off versus driving the car.

RamAir95TA

iTrader: (2)

x2 on ARP bolts.

moehorsepower

iTrader: (3)

As KoolAid said about the torque to yield bolts, One you should not use the cheap o torque wrench on something as critical as head bolts, second those bolts are to be used with a indicator torque wrench that measures stretch, as you probably noticed once you torqued them and try and go back they will keep torquing down until you snap one off as you did, Do get the ARP's and be done with it...also depending on what type of head gaskets you used you might be able to get away with R&R the bolts without removing the heads but don't torque one bolt at a time, you will have to remove all of the bolts and start the sequence all over...

ORedRoc4

iTrader: (15)

What physically happens to the bolts once they are used? BTW: The first one broke on the first time torquing to 65!

I think i will be okay with that, im just going to take the weekend completely off from it. I may go to the speed shop today to see if they have them in stock.... i just want this damn car done and reliable at this point...

-justin

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

As mentioned, they stretch. At that point, they are subject to metal fatigue, which is why they should never be re-used.
I hear that. Summit carries them, as do some sponsors.

RamAir95TA

iTrader: (2)

Every fastener has a yield point. This is the point in which the bolt is tightened so much that it becomes permanently deformed (stretched). Conventional bolts have much higher yield points than TTY bolts. TTY bolts are designed to stretch and elongate themselves in order to increase the clamping force on the cylinder head once maximum yield is reached. Conventional bolts (non-TTY) also stretch under torquing, but once loosened they return to their original shape (keep in mind we are talking about a few thousandths of an inch), making them in most cases, reusable. TTY bolts do NOT return to their original shape. TTY bolts also are not to be tightened to a specific torque, as they require an additional step - turned anywhere from 30 to 90 degrees after maximum yield has been reached. This puts all of the bolts on the same plane and equalizes clamping pressure. It is at this point where a TTY bolt can no longer be reused.

Hope this helps.

RamAir95TA

iTrader: (2)

By design, they deform - not fatigue or weaken.

ORedRoc4

iTrader: (15)

Ahh, good info guys. Now i understand why they go bad. What i am going to do is go and get a new set of bolts for just the one side and do it over again.

New question: Will it be ok to just remove the DS header and remove all the head bolts with the intake attached, then re-torque in correct sequence? Will any residual coolant seep into the combustion chamber while i remove the head bolts?

-justin

ORedRoc4

iTrader: (15)

Double post fail...

-justin

RamAir95TA

iTrader: (2)

I would not do that. In fact, I'd pull the head entirely, use new bolts (if using TTY, reuse conventional ARPs if you have them originally), AND use a new gasket. You've already compressed the gasket once, and they cannot be reused either.

Additionally, from your original post, did you use a full compliment of thread sealant on the bolt threads? All head bolts protrude into the water jacket. Not using sealant on the threads (or reusing old sealant after loosening them) will cause the issue you originally posted about.

GIZMO

iTrader: (8)

You need to replace all of the head bolts.

ORedRoc4

iTrader: (15)

The Fel-Pro head bolts came with sealant pre-applied and it said on their instructions to install dry. I am going to get TTY bolts again and i am thinking maybe putting thread sealant above the pre=applied sealant on the bolt for extra assurance... Im sure my problem is being caused by not buying new bolts after i broke that first bolt. Lesson learned.

I am replacing ALL of them just on the driver side head. The other head should be fine...

-justin

GIZMO

iTrader: (8)

That's up to you, but it's a really bad idea to reuse TTY bolts.