96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

"Will pass" and DID pass are two very different things. It would be prudent to get it tested before saying it definetely will. We have ALL been sure of things that never panned out.


My car is mailorder tuned, seems to work OK. The f-body community puts way too much emphasis on dyno time.

Dyno numbers are easily manipulated and do NOT translate into track performance.

The dyno numbers are nice but MEANINGLESS, track numbers are a better indication of performance.

97Z28SS

iTrader: (5)

Well Caprice I do agree with you about the track times if you are speaking of what mph the car runs which is an indication of how much power the car is making but et is more an indication of how well the chassis, trans/converter, gears and tires are sorted out then how much power the car is making.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Actually from what I've read he has been supportive of the LE brand. Perhaps you should do some homework before falling back on the default "WAAAHHH ur not LE therefore u r a 'douschebag' WAAAAAAH!!!" accusations from the past. What he stated had nothing to do with bashing LE, and if you're going to split hairs regarding content, what exactly is a "douschebag?" I think you are looking for douche bag, but I could be wrong...
From what I read he has a valid point.

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

I apologize but douche bag does not seem to be a valid candidate for spell check in my spell check software. But if it makes you happy, I have now added it for future usage.

And what was that point?
If you want to compare dyno numbers to see who's faster, its meaningless. Clearly, this is not what I did in my post that he was referencing. Most sane people do agree with this.

I was comparing dyno numbers with very similar engines to make a determination that something may be a bit off on my setup. My numbers were a good bit off from the OP again with similar setups. I said I found a problem that might have been present (based on lots of evidence and weird things going on) the last time I was on the dyno and that my tune might be bad.


IMHO, he took my post completely out of context, accused me of derailing the thread to start a flame war.

So again. What was his point?

ryanisfast

You guys need to get a life and drop the subject! It's really not that big of a deal. Don't get butt hurt over what someone says on the internet.

BTW, though, those are awesome #'s.

starbucks

You are absolutely correct in “will pass” and “did pass” I should defiantly get it tested. But the cam is a small smog legal cam is the point I was trying to make that’s all. As far as the mail order tune, I will never run one again after seeing how far off the was. The car had way to much timing in it and it was extremely lean so lean that the base line dyno had to be aborted at 5100 rpm because it the was 18.9 to 1 lean and getting leaner. In my opinion mail order tunes are hit and miss usually miss, an example of this is that Nathan found 40 more RWHP out of it and made the A/F super safe (12.8 to 1 across the rpm rang).

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like you had a pcmforless tune. I used him at one point and since wised up. Good tuners can get reliably close to perfect by mailorder and some datalogs can refine it further.

Your cam is most definetely not "emissions legal" it might pass emissions but that does NOT make it legal. To make it truely legal the manufacturer has to pay huge fees to CARB. Of course noone is going to tear the motor apart to find it.

Green3spd

iTrader: (7)

oh how true you are!

this video is a perfect example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iNCMVE2emE

Driver car(LT1 Z28) went 10.36
M1 went 10.1 in 1000ft

strokin93z

iTrader: (1)

Great Numbers! Congrats. Now get the car on a diet and get to the track!

elky489

iTrader: (1)

I can tell you right now,if starbucks would have raced his car,he would be putting a new motor in his car real soon on the mail order tune,a/f was 14.5 at WOTand timing was at 38 degrees and had a ton of knock.The mail order is a very nice starting point,but if the guy is 2000 miles away its pretty tuff to get it nailed.Now im not saying the mail order tune was bad,im just saying his setup wasnt dailed in yet.His car also now has perfect idle and absolutely perfect drivability,fuel trims are within 1% rich across the board, speed density is perfect and now has a perfectly dialed in maff transfer.All this makes for a much better running car.So now if he has a maff failure and needs to run the car he can simply unplug the maff and it will run perfect.So your statment to not needing a dyno tune is out the window,because this car needed one badly,poor idle,driveability was poor and wot was horribly lean,and had way to much timing for 91 oct fuel and 11.5 to 1 with a small cam.
Now i to am a believer in track times proving all,i own 3 single digit cars two being total street cars.But in some cases a hands on tune is a must.We also fixed a rocker arm on the dyno and advised a good adjustment point for him aswell.Again stuff you dont get with a mail order tune.

elky489

iTrader: (1)

Also some dynos are easy to manipulate,load style dynos all you have to do is change the load and you will have higher or lower numbers.My dynojet248 is impossible to do such a thing,as its not a load dyno,it would also be very hard for me to basically put down 10 pulls over 400 within 5 hp.Then there is the seat of the pants meter,the car hauls ***,i drove it,blows the tires off from a 2nd gear roll,the car will go mid 11s at 120 mph to 125 imo.Maybe quiker if he can drive it lol.Also after we were done tuning it his tq curve was almost flat,that means his hp under the curve increased aswell,and anyone who knows anything knows power under the curve is more important the max power at the very top of the rpm band.

elky489

iTrader: (1)

your wot a/f on mail order tune was 13.8 on the hit stayed there for a bit and started to climb,so i aborted the run.it saw 14.5 though and thats not good.Im glad i had the logger on the car on the mail order tunes only pull,had a ton of knock.But was something to get your car running with.

Now get it to the track and hush some people up about dyno tuning being a waste of time,and how the numbers are fake.

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

What kind of wideband O2's do you guys have and trust?

elky489

iTrader: (1)

my dynojet wide band.

when i street tune i use my trusty old aem wideband,ive ran it side by side with my dyno wide band and its within .1 of my dynos wideband.I can also recheck my dyno one and i do often.

elky489

iTrader: (1)

Starbucks needs to do a nice dual exhaust so he doesnt need to run the car with the cut out open.

Hint hint.
lol.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

That means the mailorder tune was bad. Hell I took a EDUCATED guess at who did the bad mailorder tune.

You are looking at this from the perspective of someone who gets PAID for dyno time. I am looking at it from the perspective of someone who has to get the most of his dollar.

The price of a dyno tune would buy me PARTS. Granted it takes a little more time to dial them in off the dyno but it absolutely can be done.

OR would you be willing to say I will gain substantially with a dyno tune?

elky489

iTrader: (1)

im saying a perfect dyno tune is cheapier then a new motor.im sry a mail order is just that.mail order.i wont do them.to many things can go wrong to quikly.but stick to ur mail order tunes from a tuner 1000s of miles away.good luck.

elky489

iTrader: (1)

and ur comment about beimg paid to do a service.well im very picky on my tunes.i loose money if i were to charge by the hour because i refuse too let a tune go thats close.it has to be perfect.then i spend another half hour to hour on the street to make sure its 100% perfect.again ssomething someone 1000s ofmiles away cant do.

starbucks

Thanks again Nathan excellent customer service even after the tune. Trust me as soon as famaso is open I will be there at the gates ready to race this car. As far as the dual exhaust I plan on doing that as well but going to have to save some money up first, but defiantly something that is going to happen.

elky489

iTrader: (1)

ya im planning a trip to sac with the cobra.hoping for 9:20s at 152