Anyone using EFI Connection ignition with a double roller timing chain?
09-14-2010, 11:55 AM
#1
Anyone using EFI Connection ignition with a double roller timing chain? Just got off the phone with Mike Noonan from EFI Connections and he told me that there might be clearance issues when using a double roller timing chain.
It seems that when using double rollers with the EFI reluctor it ends up pushing the balancer forward by 0.017". I'd post the pdf that Mike sent me but the forum only lets me post pdfs less than 341kb
I have a Rollmaster double roller but haven't installed it yet. So I don't even know if 1. there really is any clearance issues 2. will even work with the optispark. And yes I'm converting from a 94 opti to a 95 optispark ignition.
So if there is anyone out there that has a Rollmaster double roller that is using either the stock 95 opti or EFI Connection system please let me know.
Also, there is good info on this pdf so if there is any way to post this here let me know. It's a 764kb file. Thanx
It seems that when using double rollers with the EFI reluctor it ends up pushing the balancer forward by 0.017". I'd post the pdf that Mike sent me but the forum only lets me post pdfs less than 341kb
Originally Posted by EFI Connection
Stock crank timing sprockets measure about 0.526” in thickness. Most performance double row timing sets
measure 0.543” in thickness. This additional thickness pushes the 24x crank reluctor, hub/balancer, crank
pulley, and accessory belt forward about 0.017”.
measure 0.543” in thickness. This additional thickness pushes the 24x crank reluctor, hub/balancer, crank
pulley, and accessory belt forward about 0.017”.
So if there is anyone out there that has a Rollmaster double roller that is using either the stock 95 opti or EFI Connection system please let me know.
Also, there is good info on this pdf so if there is any way to post this here let me know. It's a 764kb file. Thanx
09-14-2010, 03:03 PM
#4
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I don't think it is physically possible to use a reluctor gear and a double roller timing chain.
It is true that you cannot use a 96-97 LT1 4x reluctor with double row timing set.
It is not true that you cannot use a 24x reluctor with double row timing set.
There are many LT1's running a 24x reluctor wheel and double row timing set. The only clearance problem is the stock 96-97 timing cover...which can be resolved with a billet LT1 timing cover.
09-14-2010, 03:39 PM
#6
Info from the pdf from EFI
Questions:
1. Are the 94 crank snouts longer than the 96-97 cranks?
2. Those using double rollers with the EFI system, what aftermarket balancer is being used?
I have a Fluidampr balancer. So once I get the engine back I'll have to measure everything because I think it's a rarity that anyone is using a Fluidampr balancer for the LT1. I have one of the 1st still in the box when they first came out back in 2000. Hopefully it has a short hub designed to fit the 96 and up cranks.
LT1/LT4 Cam Sprocket Concerns
Some timing sets use a very thick camshaft sprocket. While these timing
sets will not affect 24x SBC installations, they will significantly affect 24x
LT1 installations by creating a clearance problem between the 1x cam
reluctor and cam sensor housing. A stock cam sprocket, in the center,
measures about 0.234” in thickness. Most aftermarket timing sets retain
proper thickness for the 1x cam reluctor installation.
For example, and shown at right, Cloyes 9-3645X9 Premium Billet Double
Row timing set uses a cam sprocket that measures 0.100” thicker than a
stock cam timing sprocket. This installation required custom milling of the
cam sprocket for installation; a service not offered by EFI Connection.
Shortening the SBC Balancer or LT1/LT4 Crank Hub
The 1995 and older SBC balancer will be too long and push the accessory belt outward the same
thickness of the crank reluctor. Our recommendation is to use a 96-02 Vortec balancer to avoid
accessory belt misalignment. If you attempted to shorten a 95 or older balancer with a grinder,
throw it out and purchase a 96-02 Vortec balancer. Alternatively take the crank reluctor and a new
balancer to a machinist to mill the material from the balancer.
The 1992-95 LT1/LT4 crank hub will be too long and push the accessory belt outward the same
thickness of the crank reluctor. Our recommendation is to use a 96-97 LT1 crank hub to avoid
accessory belt misalignment. If you attempted to shorten a 92-95 LT1 crank hub with a grinder,
throw it out and purchase a 96-97 crank hub.
Some timing sets use a very thick camshaft sprocket. While these timing
sets will not affect 24x SBC installations, they will significantly affect 24x
LT1 installations by creating a clearance problem between the 1x cam
reluctor and cam sensor housing. A stock cam sprocket, in the center,
measures about 0.234” in thickness. Most aftermarket timing sets retain
proper thickness for the 1x cam reluctor installation.
For example, and shown at right, Cloyes 9-3645X9 Premium Billet Double
Row timing set uses a cam sprocket that measures 0.100” thicker than a
stock cam timing sprocket. This installation required custom milling of the
cam sprocket for installation; a service not offered by EFI Connection.
Shortening the SBC Balancer or LT1/LT4 Crank Hub
The 1995 and older SBC balancer will be too long and push the accessory belt outward the same
thickness of the crank reluctor. Our recommendation is to use a 96-02 Vortec balancer to avoid
accessory belt misalignment. If you attempted to shorten a 95 or older balancer with a grinder,
throw it out and purchase a 96-02 Vortec balancer. Alternatively take the crank reluctor and a new
balancer to a machinist to mill the material from the balancer.
The 1992-95 LT1/LT4 crank hub will be too long and push the accessory belt outward the same
thickness of the crank reluctor. Our recommendation is to use a 96-97 LT1 crank hub to avoid
accessory belt misalignment. If you attempted to shorten a 92-95 LT1 crank hub with a grinder,
throw it out and purchase a 96-97 crank hub.
1. Are the 94 crank snouts longer than the 96-97 cranks?
2. Those using double rollers with the EFI system, what aftermarket balancer is being used?
I have a Fluidampr balancer. So once I get the engine back I'll have to measure everything because I think it's a rarity that anyone is using a Fluidampr balancer for the LT1. I have one of the 1st still in the box when they first came out back in 2000. Hopefully it has a short hub designed to fit the 96 and up cranks.
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09-14-2010, 07:22 PM
#11
I have this exact setup on my new engine, EFI Connectios 24x reluctor for the double roller timing set, Rollmaster double roller timing set, billet timing cover and fluidamper. The only issues I ran into were the cam sensor plate wouldn't fit into the timing cover with the seal installed, the OD of the seal area was too large and too long it needed to be narrowed and shortened (Mike worked with me to get this straight). And the cam sprocket of the Rollmaster needed to be clearanced slightly to clear the cam sensor, now I can't speak on if this needs to be done with every timing set but this is what was needed on my setup.
09-14-2010, 08:07 PM
#12
I have this exact setup on my new engine, EFI Connectios 24x reluctor for the double roller timing set, Rollmaster double roller timing set, billet timing cover and fluidamper. The only issues I ran into were the cam sensor plate wouldn't fit into the timing cover with the seal installed, the OD of the seal area was too large and too long it needed to be narrowed and shortened (Mike worked with me to get this straight). And the cam sprocket of the Rollmaster needed to be clearanced slightly to clear the cam sensor, now I can't speak on if this needs to be done with every timing set but this is what was needed on my setup.
Do you remember the Rollmaster part number by chance?
Mine is CS1040 (Chev V8 S/Block 262-400 Torrington Fitted)
Also, what do you mean when the cam sprocket needed to be clearanced?
09-14-2010, 08:16 PM
#13
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This is true; sorry about that. It's just that "guesses" are so easily interpreted as being true...and being on the receiving end of these inquiries, it can eat up a lot of productive time.
No worries though...this thread is all cleared up.
No worries though...this thread is all cleared up.
09-14-2010, 08:23 PM
#14
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I've had my hands on several "common" double row timing sets (Cloyes and Comp Cams...all under $100.00 timing sets) and there are no cam sprocket concerns.
It seems the "true billet" and "premium billet" timing sets are thicker than the other (cheaper) double row timing sets and are the only timing sets that require some machining for clearance.
09-14-2010, 08:34 PM
#15
What he's saying is that because the cam reluctor is seated against the face of the cam timing sprocket, a sprocket thicker than stock will move the cam reluctor forward toward the cam sensor housing (which is mounted on the timing cover in the optispark location). So any aftermarket timing set with a thicker cam sprocket will require that material be removed (mill a pocket in the cam timing sprocket) for installation.
I've had my hands on several "common" double row timing sets (Cloyes and Comp Cams...all under $100.00 timing sets) and there are no cam sprocket concerns.
It seems the "true billet" and "premium billet" timing sets are thicker than the other (cheaper) double row timing sets and are the only timing sets that require some machining for clearance.
I've had my hands on several "common" double row timing sets (Cloyes and Comp Cams...all under $100.00 timing sets) and there are no cam sprocket concerns.
It seems the "true billet" and "premium billet" timing sets are thicker than the other (cheaper) double row timing sets and are the only timing sets that require some machining for clearance.
(Also, I do like the fact that this timing chain set is almost 1 lbs lighter than stock and good to 1000 hp.)
09-14-2010, 09:50 PM
#16
Yes Wildside answered exactly what I'm talking about and I have the same Rollmaster timing set and the cam sprocket is billet, best thing you can do is mock everything up as my machinist/engine builder did and you'll see if everything fits or needs any "massaging".
Once all that was worked out my engine was run in with the LT1 carb intake and there were no issues at all.
Once all that was worked out my engine was run in with the LT1 carb intake and there were no issues at all.
09-16-2010, 09:24 PM
#17
I'm afraid I'm going to have to back off the EFI and come back down to earth. $2000 is a lot of coin to spend on an ignition when I need 4.10 gears, a fuel pump, injectors, pp/disc, a new MAF, front brakes and a new coil. And if there's money left over maybe an aluminum LS driveshaft.
