trilkb

iTrader: (4)

**Thread brought back at post #16**

https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-wan...l#post14855761


Alright first off ive read shbox, its helped alot but im sure there are some issues i will run into with my install.

I know of 2 certainties....
1) Will be buying a Patriot gold 8501-bsbc Spring kit
2) They need to be installed at 1.780
(parts reccomended by Lloyd Elliot)

this will be my first time doing this on any engine so im really looking for helpful advice and hints and some answers to some questions.

The valve springs are dual spring, do i need a special spring compressor? Will the spring compressor work in the engine bay (the back springs worry me). Shbox used a tool but im not sure if it works with dual springs.

The install height is 1.780, How do i get there? i know i will need a shim kit, is there a kit to take them to 1.780 from 1.800? Which shim kit should i buy? Ive seen those tools that show installed height, i take it i need to buy one?

Are there any areas that i need to be 100% exact on installation so i dont cause any failure? (idiot proofing? just things to check for?)

I am planning do it the way on shbox without using compressed air or rope, just let the valve sit on the piston, has anyone done this and had bad results? obviously dropping a valve is not a good thing, id rather not take a chance but ive heard of it happening even when using compressed air.

Has anyone installed a set of these 8501-bsbc springs that can tell me any certain things about them?

Im just trying to gather information and parts list/tool list.

Thanks.

edit, also...how do crane gold rockers compare to the new comp cams ultra pro mags? I can get a set of crane golds for cheap but ive heard bad things about aluminum rockers. The ultra pro mags were reccomended.

LSWHO

iTrader: (1)

Couple things I can add:

Don't even attempt without "tims tool" or EQUIVALENT. Other tools simply will not hold the beveled retainer.

If you can do it with a compressor it will make it easier as the spring will not need to be compressed as much to get the locks on... which is better all around.

1994Z28Lt1

iTrader: (1)

when i did my springs i used the compressed air method for keeping the valves from dropping

i really wouldn't worry about the valves dropping, i used a leak down tester and filled the cylinders with 100 psi.

Just consider this if you still have the stock sized valves 1.94/1.50 and calculate the area of the valve face 2.95/1.77 and have 100psi in the cylinders it would take 295 lbs of pressure on the intake and 177lbs pressure on the exhaust valve to break the seal and cause the valve to drop

trilkb

iTrader: (4)

alright thanks for the info, i will start searching "tims tool" i guess.

The manifolds are off right now, getting replaced with long tubes. I suppose if i do compressed air ill want to wait to put the long tubes on to help with clearance. IVe just heard of it leaking off and then you have issues lol.

Any info on how to install to 1.780 vs 1.800?

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Man I wish there was a sticky for those who are concerned about valves dropping when changing springs. So lets go over it again.

Going to the trouble to remove the spark plugs and using a compressed air fitting to pressurize the cylinders is a 100% total waste of time which only adds to the frustration of the job IMO.

Raise the piston to TDC or even anywhere close to TDC by watching the arrow on the balancer and referring to Shoeboxes tips. If the piston is at absolute TDC, the valve will only drop around 3/4" while leaving more than a 1/2" of it still sticking out of the guide.

Even if you are 15 degrees off TDC and the valve drops down within the guide, no big deal pull it out with a narrow body magnetic retriever, put a wooden clothes pin on the valve, reset the balancer and try again.

At absolute worst if you have the piston at BDC, the valve will of course drop down but it will not fall out of the valve guide and not get dislodged in the cylinder on a stock stroked motor, dont know about a stroker. Simply use the magnetic retriever to pull it back up and again reset. Wooden clothes pins are your friend if the piston is in the wrong position again casue they will hold the valve in place so you can reset.

The only way I would consider the air tool is if the manifolds/headers are off which I now see, the OP has done. Yes the Tims tool is great but the Crane double spring compresser is even better.

trilkb

iTrader: (4)

^^ awesome, that makes me feel alot better!

No one has really answered how to set up 1.780 vs 1.800 though, so if anyone can touch on that it would be great. Also the Crane golds vs Comp Ultra Pro Mags.

Thanks!

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

You need shims and a spring height micrometer:

http://www.summitracing.net/parts/SUM-900032/

Unless you know for a fact the arrow on your damper represents TDC, don't trust it. Reference TDC on #1 first.

GIZMO

iTrader: (8)

An easy trick. Bring the piston to the top in the cylinder that you are working on. Then slide a hose though the spark plug hole and let it curl around the cylinder. Make sure you have enough hose hanging out of the plug hole so that you don't lose it in the cylinder! This way the valve will only drop a short distance and you don't need air. I do this all the time and it works good.

Tbird232ci

iTrader: (4)

I did the same as GIZMO but used rope. No problems for me.

CamaroRacing12

iTrader: (5)

good info here. im going to be doing my first spring/rocker swap this summer in preperation for street stock at the shootout

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

I never had to shove anything through the spark plug hole. The piston always worked fine for me :shrug:

defaultexistence

iTrader: (11)

in theory...one can watch the exhaust spring/valve movement and once it closes the piston should be @ or damn near DTC and not have to remove any plugs,thus shortening install time ...someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong

trilkb

iTrader: (4)

awesome sounds good, getting things figured out!

Is one shim kit better then another? Can someone just be nice and link me to one?

I cant wait to get this car running and hear what this cam sounds like Im also wondering if ill need a fuel pump/injectors. Dont know how many cam only cars switch em out.

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

To do it right, you need various thickneses (.015", .030", .060") of hardened shims. The ID is .812" and the OD is 1.25".

I will cut to the chase. Get this:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...ductId=1244440

trilkb

iTrader: (4)

awesome! and cheap! i like it!

trilkb

iTrader: (4)

ok well, a new job and a few months later, im bringin this thread back since i now have all my parts.

I also have a new set of questions...

Stock lt1 valve spring installed height is 1.780 from what ive read - true?

Why does anything change when i use the new springs, installed height is installed height, correct? why would one install to 1.780 and the other install to 1.800 or anything different then 1.780? this is where im confused, is the stock spring shimed already?

btw, parts im using are infact what i said i would be

Comp cams 1618 ultra pro mag rockers
Patriot performance 8501-bsbc springs
Jegs shim kit with 16 of each .015 , .030, .060
ARP rocker studs

I have not ordered the micrometer yet, they make them for a reason im sure, but why would anything change between these springs and the stock springs as far as install height goes? Wouldnt you need different lenght valve stems to change that?

jester1614

iTrader: (13)

they make offset retainers and keepers that can change valve height. as well as the thickness of the locator might be different

blackmagicturbo

iTrader: (2)

The more the spring is shimmed , given the proper clearances the more spring pressure you will have (to a point),, i think golds are rated at 415 -420 lbs open, but after a run or so they sag to 390-400 lbs open , thats why your guy recommended an install height of .020 thousands less to "shim" up the spring for more pressure .. i hope this helps ,, what size is your cam ? ,, mine is .621 on a ls2 and i shimmed the springs .050 for an open pressure of 435 lbs ,after they were broke-in or broken ..

trilkb

iTrader: (4)

My cam specs are in my sig. 226/232 .606/.603 and 64º overlap. basically its a high lift cam right between a CC503 and a CC306 lol, it should work awesome!

I got bored and put one in, no clue what its sitting at but ive never done it so it was a good test run.

No compressed air was needed, no nylon rope was needed, they dropped maybe a 1/4 inch and rested on the top of the piston...so to all the noobs like me...this method works 100%.

Installed height wont vary will it? one wont need to be shimmed .015 and another .025 correct? I am ordering a valve spring micrometer today and my trick flow pushrods. Basically i dont want to take this spring back off, i have the other spring on #1 off so ill test it with that and see what i need to do.

Smart thing wouldve been to wait, but hey whats 1 of 16 lol. even did a valve seal too. Being the first time ive done any of this im finding it to be way to easy for the price ive previously been charged

The obvious thing is 1.800 - 1.780 is a .020 shim, my kit didnt come with those hopefully what it came with will work, is it better to be under or over 1.780?

blackmagicturbo

iTrader: (2)

what shim did you use ? what does your kit have ?