E-85 383 LT1 Questions?
05-31-2011, 02:22 AM
#1
E-85 383 LT1 Questions? After spending 2 days reading threads that did nothing about argue about E-85 since 06 Im sick of reading and seacrching Im just going to ask.
Are my gains worth while Ive been figuring the gas prices and getting lost with all the numbers involved in this. Gas prices are from today local here where I live.
93 $3.99
E-85 $2.89
If the gains are worth while is there anything I need to change besides the fuel filter a few times to get crap cleaned out and a new tune.
Im not sure on the injectors this car has been drove daily like this since 06 and Im just getting tired of the $4 a gallon gas and its crap gas really.
Whats people opinion is E-85 now here to stay? Im just looking for some real basic answers cause Im sick of reading arguments about this and Im truely lost. Ive included as much info on the car as I really can and I appriciate any help.
94 Z-28
393hp/458tq @ the flywheel.(RWHP-314.7 RTQ is 366.5)
Compression Ratio is 10.5-1
Basic Mod List
Its a 383 Stroker(Scatt Forged bottom end Flex plate up),
Milled Heads,
LT4 Hot Cam Kit,
1.6 Roller Tip Rockers,
High Volume Oil Pump
MSD Ignition(just redone a couple months ago(about 500 miles on it)),
26lb injectors,
LT4 Knock sensor,
K&N Intake
160 Degrees Thermostat,
Edelbrock shorty headers,
Flowmaster cat-back exhaust,
Tuned by MC Racing,
Thanks
Are my gains worth while Ive been figuring the gas prices and getting lost with all the numbers involved in this. Gas prices are from today local here where I live.
93 $3.99
E-85 $2.89
If the gains are worth while is there anything I need to change besides the fuel filter a few times to get crap cleaned out and a new tune.
Im not sure on the injectors this car has been drove daily like this since 06 and Im just getting tired of the $4 a gallon gas and its crap gas really.
Whats people opinion is E-85 now here to stay? Im just looking for some real basic answers cause Im sick of reading arguments about this and Im truely lost. Ive included as much info on the car as I really can and I appriciate any help.
94 Z-28
393hp/458tq @ the flywheel.(RWHP-314.7 RTQ is 366.5)
Compression Ratio is 10.5-1
Basic Mod List
Its a 383 Stroker(Scatt Forged bottom end Flex plate up),
Milled Heads,
LT4 Hot Cam Kit,
1.6 Roller Tip Rockers,
High Volume Oil Pump
MSD Ignition(just redone a couple months ago(about 500 miles on it)),
26lb injectors,
LT4 Knock sensor,
K&N Intake
160 Degrees Thermostat,
Edelbrock shorty headers,
Flowmaster cat-back exhaust,
Tuned by MC Racing,
Thanks
Last edited by Psycho_Teddy; 05-31-2011 at 03:24 AM.
05-31-2011, 02:42 AM
#2
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E85 is a lot less efficient than gas, you'll need to upgrade your fuel pump (didn't see one listed) and also those 26lb injectors wont cut it, you'll need to upgrade those as well.
05-31-2011, 03:51 AM
#5
I get 8-10 mpg on average, If I was really out to save $$$ Id buy a prius. It no longer fun to drive this car everyday in the summer.
Anyways why do you say that? Maybe a little more info would be nice.
Anyways why do you say that? Maybe a little more info would be nice.
Last edited by Psycho_Teddy; 05-31-2011 at 04:06 AM.
05-31-2011, 04:15 AM
#6
I cant give you any more info because you havent even stated what you're trying to accomplish. (I had to guess because you were talking about the dollars and cents of it all).
That is why I said if you're doing it to save money, I wouldn't bother. To elaborate on that, you are going to use more fuel and negate the difference in price per gallon. If you figure that on top of the cost required to switch over, the effort, and the head ache, its just not worth it.
This falls under the category of K.I.S.S. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
Understand, I'm not blindly trying to dissuade you from using E85. I am using it on my new build, I have done masses of research on it, and I think its the coolest thing since sliced bread. A person just has to be using it for the right reasons.
Now, from a performance stand point things change drastically.
You only have 10.5:1 compression (why you didnt go higher than that I dont know, as you can run 12:1 on pump gas with an LT1...) and at that compression there arent a ton of gains to be had.
That isn't to say there's NO gain to be had, just not a big one.
About the only reason I would switch is if I already had the fuel system to run it. It is a little more consistent if you're a big bracket racer, and it will make a little more power than pump gas on a similar combo. You can get a little more aggressive with the tune and pick up a lot of TQ, even if you dont pick up any HP. E85 makes TQ.
That's about it in a nutshell. If you could pull your heads off and mill them, etc depending on what combo of hard parts you have in the engine, then it could be a big gain for you.
My new build is a 13.8:1 355 that I'll be spraying a big shot on, and using E85 all the way. For that type of build it's TOTALLY worth it as my only other option would be race fuel which is $7-8 / gallon locally.
For you, not so much.
That is why I said if you're doing it to save money, I wouldn't bother. To elaborate on that, you are going to use more fuel and negate the difference in price per gallon. If you figure that on top of the cost required to switch over, the effort, and the head ache, its just not worth it.
This falls under the category of K.I.S.S. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
Understand, I'm not blindly trying to dissuade you from using E85. I am using it on my new build, I have done masses of research on it, and I think its the coolest thing since sliced bread. A person just has to be using it for the right reasons.
Now, from a performance stand point things change drastically.
You only have 10.5:1 compression (why you didnt go higher than that I dont know, as you can run 12:1 on pump gas with an LT1...) and at that compression there arent a ton of gains to be had.
That isn't to say there's NO gain to be had, just not a big one.
About the only reason I would switch is if I already had the fuel system to run it. It is a little more consistent if you're a big bracket racer, and it will make a little more power than pump gas on a similar combo. You can get a little more aggressive with the tune and pick up a lot of TQ, even if you dont pick up any HP. E85 makes TQ.
That's about it in a nutshell. If you could pull your heads off and mill them, etc depending on what combo of hard parts you have in the engine, then it could be a big gain for you.
My new build is a 13.8:1 355 that I'll be spraying a big shot on, and using E85 all the way. For that type of build it's TOTALLY worth it as my only other option would be race fuel which is $7-8 / gallon locally.
For you, not so much.
05-31-2011, 04:22 AM
#7
I cant give you any more info because you havent even stated what you're trying to accomplish. (I had to guess because you were talking about the dollars and cents of it all).
That is why I said if you're doing it to save money, I wouldn't bother. To elaborate on that, you are going to use more fuel and negate the difference in price per gallon. If you figure that on top of the cost required to switch over, the effort, and the head ache, its just not worth it.
This falls under the category of K.I.S.S. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
Understand, I'm not blindly trying to dissuade you from using E85. I am using it on my new build, I have done masses of research on it, and I think its the coolest thing since sliced bread. A person just has to be using it for the right reasons.
Now, from a performance stand point things change drastically.
You only have 10.5:1 compression (why you didnt go higher than that I dont know, as you can run 12:1 on pump gas with an LT1...) and at that compression there arent a ton of gains to be had.
That isn't to say there's NO gain to be had, just not a big one.
About the only reason I would switch is if I already had the fuel system to run it. It is a little more consistent if you're a big bracket racer, and it will make a little more power than pump gas on a similar combo. You can get a little more aggressive with the tune and pick up a lot of TQ, even if you dont pick up any HP. E85 makes TQ.
That's about it in a nutshell. If you could pull your heads off and mill them, etc depending on what combo of hard parts you have in the engine, then it could be a big gain for you.
My new build is a 13.8:1 355 that I'll be spraying a big shot on, and using E85 all the way. For that type of build it's TOTALLY worth it as my only other option would be race fuel which is $7-8 / gallon locally.
For you, not so much.
That is why I said if you're doing it to save money, I wouldn't bother. To elaborate on that, you are going to use more fuel and negate the difference in price per gallon. If you figure that on top of the cost required to switch over, the effort, and the head ache, its just not worth it.
This falls under the category of K.I.S.S. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
Understand, I'm not blindly trying to dissuade you from using E85. I am using it on my new build, I have done masses of research on it, and I think its the coolest thing since sliced bread. A person just has to be using it for the right reasons.
Now, from a performance stand point things change drastically.
You only have 10.5:1 compression (why you didnt go higher than that I dont know, as you can run 12:1 on pump gas with an LT1...) and at that compression there arent a ton of gains to be had.
That isn't to say there's NO gain to be had, just not a big one.
About the only reason I would switch is if I already had the fuel system to run it. It is a little more consistent if you're a big bracket racer, and it will make a little more power than pump gas on a similar combo. You can get a little more aggressive with the tune and pick up a lot of TQ, even if you dont pick up any HP. E85 makes TQ.
That's about it in a nutshell. If you could pull your heads off and mill them, etc depending on what combo of hard parts you have in the engine, then it could be a big gain for you.
My new build is a 13.8:1 355 that I'll be spraying a big shot on, and using E85 all the way. For that type of build it's TOTALLY worth it as my only other option would be race fuel which is $7-8 / gallon locally.
For you, not so much.
On the ratio its been almost 5 years since this engine was built Im actually 50/50 on what the ratio is right now. Its either 10.5-1 or 11.7-1, Thats driving me up the wall and the ratio would have been higher but I live in a small town so what I had access to was a determining factor. This highest we had when the build happened was 91.
And the heads are milled.
And from all the pages I read it was getting me more lost by the moment.
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05-31-2011, 06:17 AM
#10
If you are building a clean slate motor to take advantage of E85, then it is worthwhile. You can crank the compression up. If you already have a good running car on pump gas, the power gains will be negligible. Think of E85 as cheap race gas with 106 octane.
05-31-2011, 09:34 AM
#11
I hav been running E85 for a few years, first as a bolt-on car, and now as a mild heads/cam car with 11.7 CR. A bigger fuel pump is a must, followed by about 30% larger injectors than you would need for gas. At only 10.5 CR, the gains will be minimal, should gain mostly tq over hp gains. I you are able to get that compression up you will gain a lot more. I assume that hotcam bleeds off some of the low compression that you already have. With stock static compression and the hotcam your dynamic compression is probably lower than even a stock cammed LT1. Another benefit to E85 is the cooling effect, the engine will run cooler on E85, and I would also stick with a 185* t-stat. I would also say that you need a wideband to monitor A/F ratios, and tuning software to make adjustments as needed for the summer/winter blend changes.
When just bolt-ons with 1.7RR on stock cam and cleaned up heads on 171k mile stock short block I made 322.7 rwhp/338.7 rwtq on E85 with 2* more timing over mail-order MadZ28 tune.
Now I'm running a mild custom 226/226 cam with later valve closing to increase dynamic compression for E85 on a new (53k mi) stock shortblock with 190cc EB Porting heads. I get about 13-14mpg city/18mpg hwy (M29 .62 6th).
When just bolt-ons with 1.7RR on stock cam and cleaned up heads on 171k mile stock short block I made 322.7 rwhp/338.7 rwtq on E85 with 2* more timing over mail-order MadZ28 tune.
Now I'm running a mild custom 226/226 cam with later valve closing to increase dynamic compression for E85 on a new (53k mi) stock shortblock with 190cc EB Porting heads. I get about 13-14mpg city/18mpg hwy (M29 .62 6th).
05-31-2011, 11:06 AM
#12
[QUOTE=Psycho_Teddy;14980309]I get 8-10 mpg on average,
???. You either have a very heavy foot or your tune is way off. Granted I was forced inducted, made 648 RWHP on Pump Gas and got app 25 MPG on the Highway. I know of a lot of people making 400 RWHP and getting in the 20's MPG so something is off if you are only getting your 8-10..
???. You either have a very heavy foot or your tune is way off. Granted I was forced inducted, made 648 RWHP on Pump Gas and got app 25 MPG on the Highway. I know of a lot of people making 400 RWHP and getting in the 20's MPG so something is off if you are only getting your 8-10..
05-31-2011, 02:25 PM
#13
I rarely leave town with it.
The one thing that drives me insane is it always smells like old gas and its never even ran on old gas
[QUOTE=moehorsepower;14981259]
The one thing that drives me insane is it always smells like old gas and its never even ran on old gas
[QUOTE=moehorsepower;14981259]
I get 8-10 mpg on average,
???. You either have a very heavy foot or your tune is way off. Granted I was forced inducted, made 648 RWHP on Pump Gas and got app 25 MPG on the Highway. I know of a lot of people making 400 RWHP and getting in the 20's MPG so something is off if you are only getting your 8-10..
???. You either have a very heavy foot or your tune is way off. Granted I was forced inducted, made 648 RWHP on Pump Gas and got app 25 MPG on the Highway. I know of a lot of people making 400 RWHP and getting in the 20's MPG so something is off if you are only getting your 8-10..
Last edited by Psycho_Teddy; 05-31-2011 at 02:39 PM.
05-31-2011, 04:33 PM
#17
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First off WOW e85 is cheap by you, i just paid 3.66 a gallon here in central florida.
ight now i have a 600whp stalled 9 inch firebird ls2 on e85 and i didnt gain as much power as i thought, quite honestly maybe 10 horse. We may of just been too easy on the ignition timing but thats all we did. It did make the car drive better to me though, and its way more forgiving if you ever go lean and knocks almost never happen. That being said its worth every penny to me to save a motor. Mine doesnt run cooler at all, maybe my cars wierd but ya no change at all. My fuel mileage was cut in half also.
now on the fuel system side i run 80 lb siemens (that are that at 43psi) at 60psi boosted referenced with 8an feed/return with a 2000hp magnafuel pump. My injector duty cycle is 80% soo you can see your gonna need a great fuel system for e85. Just what ever you thinks good go bigger.
now e85 isnt easy to get where im at so im kinda hating having to alwasy worry about running low on fuel on trips but for power/durabilty i love it. For a everyday driver i hate it. If your not a high compression big hp guy i would just stick to 93 and make it simple.
dont know if i helped you any but ya there ya go
ight now i have a 600whp stalled 9 inch firebird ls2 on e85 and i didnt gain as much power as i thought, quite honestly maybe 10 horse. We may of just been too easy on the ignition timing but thats all we did. It did make the car drive better to me though, and its way more forgiving if you ever go lean and knocks almost never happen. That being said its worth every penny to me to save a motor. Mine doesnt run cooler at all, maybe my cars wierd but ya no change at all. My fuel mileage was cut in half also.
now on the fuel system side i run 80 lb siemens (that are that at 43psi) at 60psi boosted referenced with 8an feed/return with a 2000hp magnafuel pump. My injector duty cycle is 80% soo you can see your gonna need a great fuel system for e85. Just what ever you thinks good go bigger.
now e85 isnt easy to get where im at so im kinda hating having to alwasy worry about running low on fuel on trips but for power/durabilty i love it. For a everyday driver i hate it. If your not a high compression big hp guy i would just stick to 93 and make it simple.
dont know if i helped you any but ya there ya go
05-31-2011, 08:15 PM
#18
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I have been running E85 for 4 years, 383 Lt1 on the bottle and off and gained on both, not going to trow any numbers out there,dont want to start a pissing match. No you dont need to change your fuel filter a lot, dont believe the B.S. you hear.
