Pro charger vs turbo
02-13-2012, 01:13 PM
#2
Well, you don't have to worry about slipping or throwing belts with a turbo so, in general I'd say that is the better route. It does kind of depend on your goals though. If you just want something that is a simple bolt on power adder with no bottle refills, it may be better to go with an entry level procharger kit. That way you wouldn't have to modify the exhaust you already have.
, spend your money elsewhere on a N/A build with a good heads/cam package or you could be building a very expensive ticking time bomb.
02-13-2012, 02:02 PM
#4
Good job! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to say it is just going to blow up.
02-13-2012, 02:44 PM
#5
$2000 +/- rebuild stock block with dished forged pistons/rods, turbo/supercharger cam
$500 valvetrain
$2000-6500 buy complete new/used supercharger or rear mount turbo kit for 7-9 psi boost with intercooler
$1000+/- Fuel system upgrades/tuning: injectors, fuel pump, dyno tune
$300 MSD boost controller
Then you probably need some MORE cash for when your 10 bolt explodes from well over 400 RWTQ and will most likely need some transmission/stall/clutch upgrades too. For me, it was more cost effective to just go N/A 383 stroker.
02-13-2012, 04:05 PM
#7
Procharger requires power to make power and you end up with parasitic loss...
Turbo is the opposite, and creates power from existing exhaust...
NOW...
With the motor build costs being virtually the same between the two, additional costs in the turbo set up will be costly......
I run the procharger for the simplicity of the system... yes, I realize, I lose power to make power, but everything fits.... modifications to the car itself is simplier (IMO), and I got a killer deal for my procharger set up.
As for costs.... TO make my entire car POWER/BOOST capable, my $4,000 car has over $20,000 invested.
Turbo is the opposite, and creates power from existing exhaust...
NOW...
With the motor build costs being virtually the same between the two, additional costs in the turbo set up will be costly......
I run the procharger for the simplicity of the system... yes, I realize, I lose power to make power, but everything fits.... modifications to the car itself is simplier (IMO), and I got a killer deal for my procharger set up.
As for costs.... TO make my entire car POWER/BOOST capable, my $4,000 car has over $20,000 invested.
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02-13-2012, 04:19 PM
#8
Procharger requires power to make power and you end up with parasitic loss...
Turbo is the opposite, and creates power from existing exhaust...
NOW...
With the motor build costs being virtually the same between the two, additional costs in the turbo set up will be costly......
I run the procharger for the simplicity of the system... yes, I realize, I lose power to make power, but everything fits.... modifications to the car itself is simplier (IMO), and I got a killer deal for my procharger set up.
As for costs.... TO make my entire car POWER/BOOST capable, my $4,000 car has over $20,000 invested.
Turbo is the opposite, and creates power from existing exhaust...
NOW...
With the motor build costs being virtually the same between the two, additional costs in the turbo set up will be costly......
I run the procharger for the simplicity of the system... yes, I realize, I lose power to make power, but everything fits.... modifications to the car itself is simplier (IMO), and I got a killer deal for my procharger set up.
As for costs.... TO make my entire car POWER/BOOST capable, my $4,000 car has over $20,000 invested.
02-13-2012, 04:30 PM
#9
02-13-2012, 04:31 PM
#10
TECH Fanatic
A turbo essentially is like having a muffler on an N/A car as far as back pressure goes and uses energy (exhaust) the motor made to spin the turbo and make more power...
02-13-2012, 04:35 PM
#11
Thank You for clarifying... I thought i may have gotten in over my head trying to help the OP...
02-13-2012, 04:37 PM
#12
TECH Fanatic
02-13-2012, 04:41 PM
#13
TECH Fanatic
A turbo will always be more efficient no matter what anyone says, but for ease of installation, more room under the hood, and sometimes cost, A supercharger is usually sought after a little more.
Myself, i'm a turbo guy and probably always will be.
Myself, i'm a turbo guy and probably always will be.
02-13-2012, 04:52 PM
#15
02-13-2012, 05:28 PM
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its a pick your poison choice. the best thing you can do i set a clearly defined set of goals then chose from there. just to give you a heads up on the cost. take what you think your going to spend and multiply x3 and you will be close.
02-13-2012, 06:39 PM
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02-13-2012, 07:04 PM
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Running forced induction isn't for the weak of heart. How much power are you looking to make?Supercharger (Pros):
-Cheaper to set up than a turbo (albeit neither are cheap to set up properly)
-Easier to tune because the boost is relatively linear (predictable) -- can get by with stock PCM
-Considerably easier to install, overall.
-Relatively instantaneous power when you stomp on the pedal / better throttle response (although this might be considered a 'con' because it places more stress on the drivetrain, especially on a manual trans car. Though, a properly sized turbo wont have much lag these days, as I understand it).
Supercharger (Cons):-Easier to tune because the boost is relatively linear (predictable) -- can get by with stock PCM
-Considerably easier to install, overall.
-Relatively instantaneous power when you stomp on the pedal / better throttle response (although this might be considered a 'con' because it places more stress on the drivetrain, especially on a manual trans car. Though, a properly sized turbo wont have much lag these days, as I understand it).
-Less efficient than a turbo / worse fuel economy during part-throttle cruise
-Less power under the curve, as max boost is achieved at max RPM (unlike a turbo)
-Factory hub is insufficient (not keyed, too thin. ~$600+ upgrade to oversized hub)
-More stress on crank snout and main bearings (some have broken the crank snout clean off).
-Some don't like the screeching noise s/c's make at idle, though you can order quiet models with helical-cut gears now.
-Have to deal with belt slippage with high boost/small pulleys (procharger tensioner is junk and requires upgrading, in particular)
-Have to change pulleys to change boost levels, and that sometimes involves removing the head unit from the car to get a pneumatic impact gun on it.
Turbo (Pros):-Less power under the curve, as max boost is achieved at max RPM (unlike a turbo)
-Factory hub is insufficient (not keyed, too thin. ~$600+ upgrade to oversized hub)
-More stress on crank snout and main bearings (some have broken the crank snout clean off).
-Some don't like the screeching noise s/c's make at idle, though you can order quiet models with helical-cut gears now.
-Have to deal with belt slippage with high boost/small pulleys (procharger tensioner is junk and requires upgrading, in particular)
-Have to change pulleys to change boost levels, and that sometimes involves removing the head unit from the car to get a pneumatic impact gun on it.
-Better thermal efficiency / better fuel economy during part-throttle cruise
-More power under the curve (can hit full boost in the mid-RPM range and carry it all the way to max RPM, unlike a supercharger)
-I think they sound better
-No belt to worry about
-Easier on the drivetrain as a little bit of turbo lag prevents harsh jolts
-More easily adapts to changes in elevation
-Electronic boost controllers allow you to easily change boost levels. (Not that you couldn't technically use one on a supercharger, but it would be inefficient and silly).
Turbo (Cons):-More power under the curve (can hit full boost in the mid-RPM range and carry it all the way to max RPM, unlike a supercharger)
-I think they sound better
-No belt to worry about
-Easier on the drivetrain as a little bit of turbo lag prevents harsh jolts
-More easily adapts to changes in elevation
-Electronic boost controllers allow you to easily change boost levels. (Not that you couldn't technically use one on a supercharger, but it would be inefficient and silly).
-Higher initial cost
-More difficult to tune because the boost is based on load (unpredictable) -- you're really better off buying aftermarket engine management ($$$)
-Harder to install / difficult to squeeze all the piping into the engine bay without deleting and relocating various components / more heat directed under the hood.
-Turbo must be properly sized for the engine. Too big, and it won't spool up as quick (turbo lag). Too small and you won't make as much power.
-More difficult to tune because the boost is based on load (unpredictable) -- you're really better off buying aftermarket engine management ($$$)
-Harder to install / difficult to squeeze all the piping into the engine bay without deleting and relocating various components / more heat directed under the hood.
-Turbo must be properly sized for the engine. Too big, and it won't spool up as quick (turbo lag). Too small and you won't make as much power.
That's to the best of my knowledge anyway.
As already mentioned, and as repeated ad nauseum, you'll be rebuilding your engine whether you want to or not with any decent amount of boost. If you're sticking with low boost levels, it might be best to stick with an n/a stroker buildup as ahritchie mentioned.
Point being, you don't build a naturally-aspirated engine the same way that you build an FI engine, and for good reason. Detonation might be nothing more than a mild headache on your n/a setup, but it will quite literally destroy a forced induction engine. Same goes for running lean (i.e. burning holes through pistons). That's why we drop compression, run a tight quench, open up the ring gaps, and retard the ignition timing. Keep as much meat on the piston as you can, and use forged 2618-alloy slugs. Intercoolers and/or methanol injection are a must. Buying a wideband O2 is also strongly recommended. High boost levels are probably going to require low-impedance injectors, which the factory PCM cannot drive without an impedance converter box. It sure as hell isn't cheap, but if done right, you can hit 600-700rwhp without worrying about a bottle going empty.
Best thing you can do is spend the next several months doing research -- read all the LT1 forced induction forums. Make a list of everything you'd need to buy before spending a single dollar. Hope you've got a good $10K~$15K saved up -- little stuff adds up quicker than you'd think. If you can swing it, go for it.
Probably more info than you were looking for, but it's there if you want it.