Build me a 383...
02-13-2012, 09:21 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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Build me a 383... I did a search but did not see anything that really fit was i was looking for.. Not trying to spend over 3000 but i'm also not going to be unrealistic i know its expensive. heres what i was thinking tell me what i'm missing. thanks ahead of time!
eagle stroker kit 700
gaskets 150
cam bearings 20
cam 400
pushrods 100
headwork 400
valve springs 150
tune 400
grand total 2320
obviously there are going to be unforseen costs, maybe my prices are off...
you tell me!
eagle stroker kit 700
gaskets 150
cam bearings 20
cam 400
pushrods 100
headwork 400
valve springs 150
tune 400
grand total 2320
obviously there are going to be unforseen costs, maybe my prices are off...
you tell me!
02-13-2012, 09:27 PM
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Staging Lane
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02-13-2012, 09:35 PM
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very helpful link thanks man. looks to me though that they have a lot of unnecessary parts that i could cut cost big time with like roller rockers new heads arp bolts ect.
02-13-2012, 09:48 PM
#4
What you are planning is a HUGE step backwards from stock. You would be vastly better off to just get a junkyard engine.
A decent stroker shortblock is going to cost $3k easily.
displacement doesn't add power without airflow and $400 in a set of heads wont do much for airflow. You go through with this and the average heads.cam car will embarrass you badly. Then your pile of junk will blowup and you will be out all the money you spent putting together a pile of junk.
Not to mention your forgetting things like balancing which you still need even if you decided to try and stay stock bore.
If you genuinely think this is a good plan please sell the car and buy a Honda.
A decent stroker shortblock is going to cost $3k easily.
displacement doesn't add power without airflow and $400 in a set of heads wont do much for airflow. You go through with this and the average heads.cam car will embarrass you badly. Then your pile of junk will blowup and you will be out all the money you spent putting together a pile of junk.
Not to mention your forgetting things like balancing which you still need even if you decided to try and stay stock bore.
If you genuinely think this is a good plan please sell the car and buy a Honda.
02-13-2012, 09:59 PM
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"if you genuinely think this is a good plan please sell the car and buy a honda?"
really dude? tryin to be hardcore with the keyboard? im 16 years old so i dont know all too much about engines. sorry if that pisses you off. i tried to come in here humble and see if i could get a little help from people who had maybe been in the same place im in right now but no people like you gotta get on your high horse because you obviously have it all figured out. sorry, i'll just let you go back to being king of lt1s now. freak.
anyways, what would ya'll do? like the title said build me a 383. or a 350 or a 355 idc its just time for a rebuild and i want some opinions thanks
really dude? tryin to be hardcore with the keyboard? im 16 years old so i dont know all too much about engines. sorry if that pisses you off. i tried to come in here humble and see if i could get a little help from people who had maybe been in the same place im in right now but no people like you gotta get on your high horse because you obviously have it all figured out. sorry, i'll just let you go back to being king of lt1s now. freak.
anyways, what would ya'll do? like the title said build me a 383. or a 350 or a 355 idc its just time for a rebuild and i want some opinions thanks
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02-13-2012, 10:22 PM
#9
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Refresh the stock bottom end and upgrade the rod bolts. Get your hands on decent ported heads, intake, and camshaft and spank poorly setup 383/396 cars.
Make sure you have supporting mods.
Take a look at successful 350/355 builds and take notes.
-Dustin-
Make sure you have supporting mods.
Take a look at successful 350/355 builds and take notes.
-Dustin-
02-13-2012, 11:22 PM
#10
Right off the bat I would get the 383 idea out of your head for now. Not only is is probably totally unnecessary, but will cost a LOT more then 3k to do it right.
Start with a basic machine shop rebuild, reusing the stock crank and rods after having them inspected. Have them throw in ARP rod bolts for piece of mind. This will refresh your tied old 200k mile block and give you a decent foundation to start with.
Then get an LE1 heads/cam kit(used if you can, just make sure to email LE to make sure they are a legit set of heads that he did and not some local shop ported pieces of junk), and find some used headers like Pacesetters. Forums like here and racingjunk are great places to score cheap parts. 30# SVOs will be plenty of injector and leave you room to grow, and can also be found for cheap reconditioned on ebay. A mail order tune will also be needed to get you running, but keep in mind a dyno tune will be needed eventually to dial everything in properly and will cost a lot more. Changing the opti would be recommended in all honesty, but if there is nothing wrong with it now you can get away with just a cap and rotor change.
After factoring in misc things that nickel and dime you like fluids, hardware, and any unforseen expenses, you might be able to get it running again for under 3k.
It wont be completely optimized, but you can get the rest of the supporting mods like a bigger TB, ported intake, gears, suspension, etc over time as you get more money.
Should be more then enough power for a 16 year old, and wont completely break the bank.
Have fun, be safe, and do as much research as you can before jumping on what looks like a good deal. Cutting corners may cost you MORE money in the long run...Then, a few years from now when you have the supporting mods, knowledge, and funding, you can start planning a proper 383 build.
Start with a basic machine shop rebuild, reusing the stock crank and rods after having them inspected. Have them throw in ARP rod bolts for piece of mind. This will refresh your tied old 200k mile block and give you a decent foundation to start with.
Then get an LE1 heads/cam kit(used if you can, just make sure to email LE to make sure they are a legit set of heads that he did and not some local shop ported pieces of junk), and find some used headers like Pacesetters. Forums like here and racingjunk are great places to score cheap parts. 30# SVOs will be plenty of injector and leave you room to grow, and can also be found for cheap reconditioned on ebay. A mail order tune will also be needed to get you running, but keep in mind a dyno tune will be needed eventually to dial everything in properly and will cost a lot more. Changing the opti would be recommended in all honesty, but if there is nothing wrong with it now you can get away with just a cap and rotor change.
After factoring in misc things that nickel and dime you like fluids, hardware, and any unforseen expenses, you might be able to get it running again for under 3k.
It wont be completely optimized, but you can get the rest of the supporting mods like a bigger TB, ported intake, gears, suspension, etc over time as you get more money.
Should be more then enough power for a 16 year old, and wont completely break the bank.
Have fun, be safe, and do as much research as you can before jumping on what looks like a good deal. Cutting corners may cost you MORE money in the long run...Then, a few years from now when you have the supporting mods, knowledge, and funding, you can start planning a proper 383 build.
02-14-2012, 12:06 AM
#11
Your prices aren't realistic and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but just so you don't bite off more than you can chew and have a bunch of parts that are unusable. Bigger is better when it's just as durable. If you're going to risk destroying your motor every time you bounce of rev limiter, it isn't worth it.
A $700 stroker kit is not going to be any stronger than the parts currently in your motor. In fact, after spending $400-500 to fix any machining flaws and balance the bottom end you could have pieced together a much better rotating assembly for the same price. I'd rather build a reliable 355 instead of building a half-assed 383. Any company that can afford to sell a full rotating assembly for $700 must be using defective or crappy parts. A descent set of pistons/rings for a motor should cost $500 alone. I'd stick with a 355 and reuse the stock crank (worse case scenario is $100 to cut/polish it). For the difference in price between forged parts, I'd get forged rods/pistons/plasma moly rings (believe it or not you'll only be an extra $100-200 out of pocket and shouldn't exceed $900). After balancing it you're in it for $1,000 and have a bottom end that is way stronger than ANY $700 bottom end (which will end up costing more money just to make work). Let's not get carried away though, on a cheap end you can reuse the rods too and just upgrade the rod bolts (beware I've seen these rods break in a motor that turned about 6,700 RPM -- not sure if it was due to strength or an improperly setup/machined motor).
Now let's jump ahead to bearings and gaskets; figure in anywhere from $300-500 for all of that. Figure $200 for boring. Now you are in it for $1,700 into your short block. I'd have the heads cleaned up and valves re-lapped for $350-400.
$2,100 down, you still have $900 to buy a cam ($300), lifters ($150), pushrods, rockers, oil pump assembly, injectors and a retune.... granted this is assuming you already have a CAI and headers/exhaust.
Don't be afraid of something like this, you can still make quiet a bit of power on a higher compression cam only LT1! I bet it would be the fastest thing in the school parking lot if it's done right. $3,000 is really pushing it but for $3,500 we can make do... and have wiggle room to handle a 100 shot of nitrous in the future.
The rest of your drive train becomes the weak link; expect to be changing your clutch and rear at the very least in the near future.
And don't be afraid to build a stock stroke small block. I'm building a stock stroke LT1 nitrous motor with 185cc heads (rather tiny runners) that I'd confidently line up against 90% of the street cars around here and not even open up the bottle... turn a valve, flick a switch and I'd be willing to run my mouth to 99.99% of the cars I've seen in my lifetime.
A $700 stroker kit is not going to be any stronger than the parts currently in your motor. In fact, after spending $400-500 to fix any machining flaws and balance the bottom end you could have pieced together a much better rotating assembly for the same price. I'd rather build a reliable 355 instead of building a half-assed 383. Any company that can afford to sell a full rotating assembly for $700 must be using defective or crappy parts. A descent set of pistons/rings for a motor should cost $500 alone. I'd stick with a 355 and reuse the stock crank (worse case scenario is $100 to cut/polish it). For the difference in price between forged parts, I'd get forged rods/pistons/plasma moly rings (believe it or not you'll only be an extra $100-200 out of pocket and shouldn't exceed $900). After balancing it you're in it for $1,000 and have a bottom end that is way stronger than ANY $700 bottom end (which will end up costing more money just to make work). Let's not get carried away though, on a cheap end you can reuse the rods too and just upgrade the rod bolts (beware I've seen these rods break in a motor that turned about 6,700 RPM -- not sure if it was due to strength or an improperly setup/machined motor).
Now let's jump ahead to bearings and gaskets; figure in anywhere from $300-500 for all of that. Figure $200 for boring. Now you are in it for $1,700 into your short block. I'd have the heads cleaned up and valves re-lapped for $350-400.
$2,100 down, you still have $900 to buy a cam ($300), lifters ($150), pushrods, rockers, oil pump assembly, injectors and a retune.... granted this is assuming you already have a CAI and headers/exhaust.
Don't be afraid of something like this, you can still make quiet a bit of power on a higher compression cam only LT1! I bet it would be the fastest thing in the school parking lot if it's done right. $3,000 is really pushing it but for $3,500 we can make do... and have wiggle room to handle a 100 shot of nitrous in the future.
The rest of your drive train becomes the weak link; expect to be changing your clutch and rear at the very least in the near future.
And don't be afraid to build a stock stroke small block. I'm building a stock stroke LT1 nitrous motor with 185cc heads (rather tiny runners) that I'd confidently line up against 90% of the street cars around here and not even open up the bottle... turn a valve, flick a switch and I'd be willing to run my mouth to 99.99% of the cars I've seen in my lifetime.
02-14-2012, 12:17 AM
#12
Right off the bat I would get the 383 idea out of your head for now. Not only is is probably totally unnecessary, but will cost a LOT more then 3k to do it right.
Start with a basic machine shop rebuild, reusing the stock crank and rods after having them inspected. Have them throw in ARP rod bolts for piece of mind. This will refresh your tied old 200k mile block and give you a decent foundation to start with.
Start with a basic machine shop rebuild, reusing the stock crank and rods after having them inspected. Have them throw in ARP rod bolts for piece of mind. This will refresh your tied old 200k mile block and give you a decent foundation to start with.
02-14-2012, 06:55 AM
#13
Stock crank is a LOT stronger than any crank that comes in a $700 stroker kit.
200K without any verifiable signs of severe wear I would just leave alone, maybe start with some boltons. That is not enough mileage to wear out a vaguely decently maintained LT1.
A 16yo kid should not have the extra 150hp boltons/ heads and cam can add, with a good hydraulic stroker setup with ported GM heads you can be looking at 200rwhp more than the car came with. I did a lot of dumb things behind the wheel when I was that young and would not be here if I had the car I have now.
Just to give you an idea of what an actual decent stroker costs.
$550ish for a chinese forged crank, this is bottom of the barrel you can get away with
$300 on cheap forged pistons
Maybe $250 on some cheap rods
That is $1100 and is without bearings and everything and is all the cheapest stuff you can get away with. The kits cheaper than that are a lot weaker than stock.
To do a nice stroker setup I would plan to spend more like $2000 on the rotating assembly before balancing and all, machining can easily push the shortblock alone to $3-3500. Head and valvetrain can easily equal those numbers too using stock castings not aftermarket. This is all without the cold air intake, exhaust, fuel system upgrades needed to support power, the drivetrain upgrades needed to handle the power, or the suspension mods to put the power down.
To start with a stock high mileage car and put a nice stroker in it including everything to support it and replace things like high mileage suspension bushings with the only labor being the engine,tranny,axle rebuilds, $15K will go fast even without the aftermarket axle you really should then look at.
200K without any verifiable signs of severe wear I would just leave alone, maybe start with some boltons. That is not enough mileage to wear out a vaguely decently maintained LT1.
A 16yo kid should not have the extra 150hp boltons/ heads and cam can add, with a good hydraulic stroker setup with ported GM heads you can be looking at 200rwhp more than the car came with. I did a lot of dumb things behind the wheel when I was that young and would not be here if I had the car I have now.
Just to give you an idea of what an actual decent stroker costs.
$550ish for a chinese forged crank, this is bottom of the barrel you can get away with
$300 on cheap forged pistons
Maybe $250 on some cheap rods
That is $1100 and is without bearings and everything and is all the cheapest stuff you can get away with. The kits cheaper than that are a lot weaker than stock.
To do a nice stroker setup I would plan to spend more like $2000 on the rotating assembly before balancing and all, machining can easily push the shortblock alone to $3-3500. Head and valvetrain can easily equal those numbers too using stock castings not aftermarket. This is all without the cold air intake, exhaust, fuel system upgrades needed to support power, the drivetrain upgrades needed to handle the power, or the suspension mods to put the power down.
To start with a stock high mileage car and put a nice stroker in it including everything to support it and replace things like high mileage suspension bushings with the only labor being the engine,tranny,axle rebuilds, $15K will go fast even without the aftermarket axle you really should then look at.
02-14-2012, 07:28 AM
#14
as stated many times above your plan is a step backwards in strength and at the power level you are at/wanting a 355 is much more suited to do it.......
id run a stock crank 2 bolt 355
toss some scat I beams in it with an average forged piston
the heads anc cam are where your power will be had.......look there.....
machine work is where ur money will be .........from a good machine shop you'll probably be in the 800-1000 area to get proper machine work done for a performance build.......
$300 to balance
$300 to bore and hone
$125 to cut crank
$75 to size rods and piston pins
$75 to clearance rods/mains
$75 to hot tank
then its a matter if you want to check the block for squareness which with a 200k mile motor I'd do.....
it goes on and on.......if you do a 383 you need to plan on clearancing the block so on and so forth........im doing a 383 right now for a board member.......when done correctly they run great and last a long time.......when done cutting corners nothing good is to happen.....
id run a stock crank 2 bolt 355
toss some scat I beams in it with an average forged piston
the heads anc cam are where your power will be had.......look there.....
machine work is where ur money will be .........from a good machine shop you'll probably be in the 800-1000 area to get proper machine work done for a performance build.......
$300 to balance
$300 to bore and hone
$125 to cut crank
$75 to size rods and piston pins
$75 to clearance rods/mains
$75 to hot tank
then its a matter if you want to check the block for squareness which with a 200k mile motor I'd do.....
it goes on and on.......if you do a 383 you need to plan on clearancing the block so on and so forth........im doing a 383 right now for a board member.......when done correctly they run great and last a long time.......when done cutting corners nothing good is to happen.....
02-14-2012, 07:37 AM
#16
absolutly.....figure $375 for Scat I beams and $600 for a mahle power pak....toss in $80 for bearings and hes over 1k........that eagle rotator like you said is a step backwards.......alot of people doubt the actual strength and integrity of GM parts.....
02-14-2012, 10:24 AM
#17
I don't know that he doubted the factory part strength so much as bought into the notion of "there is no replacement for displacement" Which might have been the case when his father was his age but these days is not so much the case.
Yes displacement can help BUT a stroker built like this, and it has been done, can put out stock power and no more. There was a kid here for awhile with an Impala that he put a stroker in and made 220rwhp which is what the car made stock. He got all upset when we told him what a pile of **** he had, then came to understand, then got swayed by all the benchracers and I think kept buying parts only to change his plan buy different parts etc. Don't know if the car ever got put back together or not.
People also do not grasp just how much power you can add to a stock shortblock, what is a stock A4 f-body, maybe 240rwhp? Boltons can get that number up around 300rwhp, good heads and cam can take it over 400rwhp, neither of those numbers being the limit just good numbers not records. Talking 150+rwhp without doing a shortblock.
Then like I said above the cost to set the car up to support and handle the power is a LOT as well.
Yes displacement can help BUT a stroker built like this, and it has been done, can put out stock power and no more. There was a kid here for awhile with an Impala that he put a stroker in and made 220rwhp which is what the car made stock. He got all upset when we told him what a pile of **** he had, then came to understand, then got swayed by all the benchracers and I think kept buying parts only to change his plan buy different parts etc. Don't know if the car ever got put back together or not.
People also do not grasp just how much power you can add to a stock shortblock, what is a stock A4 f-body, maybe 240rwhp? Boltons can get that number up around 300rwhp, good heads and cam can take it over 400rwhp, neither of those numbers being the limit just good numbers not records. Talking 150+rwhp without doing a shortblock.
Then like I said above the cost to set the car up to support and handle the power is a LOT as well.
02-14-2012, 12:25 PM
#18
thats how mine started.....figured ahh let me refresh my 355........figured while i was buying rods and pistons might as well go stroked........then figured ahhh damn im gonna hve to open up these heads to make it work right.......then the cam was too small.......snowball rolled on down the hill next thing i knew i had a FAST XFI a set of billet rods and a solid roller cam sitting in my kitchen lol
02-14-2012, 12:57 PM
#19
^ They speak the truth on the snowballing cost of engine rebuilds....I just got done with a "budget" forged 383 shortblock swap which I bought (practically stole 
for a little over $2K) a newly built 383 from a forum member. Once you add the cost of ported heads, valvetrain, gaskets, injectors, fuel pump, tuning, ect. ect. you can easily spend over $5-6K without even touching the driveline or factoring labor costs. Then you might as well replace all hoses, opti, WP, while your in there, maybe some nice valve covers or engine appearance mods...you get the idea. I would just stick to a cam only setup and save some cash for bolt ons and suspension with your budget.
for a little over $2K) a newly built 383 from a forum member. Once you add the cost of ported heads, valvetrain, gaskets, injectors, fuel pump, tuning, ect. ect. you can easily spend over $5-6K without even touching the driveline or factoring labor costs. Then you might as well replace all hoses, opti, WP, while your in there, maybe some nice valve covers or engine appearance mods...you get the idea. I would just stick to a cam only setup and save some cash for bolt ons and suspension with your budget.
02-14-2012, 01:11 PM
#20
People also do not grasp just how much power you can add to a stock shortblock, what is a stock A4 f-body, maybe 240rwhp? Boltons can get that number up around 300rwhp, good heads and cam can take it over 400rwhp, neither of those numbers being the limit just good numbers not records. Talking 150+rwhp without doing a shortblock.
Then like I said above the cost to set the car up to support and handle the power is a LOT as well.
Then like I said above the cost to set the car up to support and handle the power is a LOT as well.
This is WELL stated. Should be a sticky for the newbies