Update on my 383 build
08-02-2012, 04:03 PM
#21
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96capricemgr, I recommended Lloyd Elliot because he actually ports the ENTIRE intake. It is not matched to the heads no, so he COULD have the heads shipped to Lloyd first, then to him. MAYBE AI ports the intake the same as Lloyd, maybe not but Lloyd charges $225 and removed 3 pounds worth of material from the stock intake manifold. I made the mistake of taking my intake manifold to get matched to my heads at a local shop and the ONLY thing they did was opened the TB ports to 58mm and matched the manifold ports to the heads...no other porting. They barely did ANYTHING and they charged me $260. It was merely a suggestion...no need to call people idiots or stupid on here. There is a difference between port matching and porting.
I do see the point in just leaving the intake alone however, because he will not be making enough power to warrant it. I made 411 RWHP on the stock unported intake manifold.
OP, you say that that crank will be suitable for weekend driving and daily driving and you are correct...however if you go to the track every one=ce in a while and you shift at over 6000 RPMs, you are playing with dynamite. If you want to risk the cast scat crank and give it a shot, who knows, you may get lucky and be ok...you may not and if the crank breaks, you may end up with more to replace that just the crank itself....
Also, you missed my question about your tranny, but is it stock, or built?
OP, saw your tranny post after I refreshed after my post, sorry. I wouldnt hot rod the car until that tranny is built. I did when I got mine done and was so excited to have the car back, only to shred my synchros and have to pull the tranny...I would do it while you still have it out of the car.
I do see the point in just leaving the intake alone however, because he will not be making enough power to warrant it. I made 411 RWHP on the stock unported intake manifold.
OP, you say that that crank will be suitable for weekend driving and daily driving and you are correct...however if you go to the track every one=ce in a while and you shift at over 6000 RPMs, you are playing with dynamite. If you want to risk the cast scat crank and give it a shot, who knows, you may get lucky and be ok...you may not and if the crank breaks, you may end up with more to replace that just the crank itself....
Also, you missed my question about your tranny, but is it stock, or built?
OP, saw your tranny post after I refreshed after my post, sorry. I wouldnt hot rod the car until that tranny is built. I did when I got mine done and was so excited to have the car back, only to shred my synchros and have to pull the tranny...I would do it while you still have it out of the car.
08-02-2012, 04:57 PM
#22
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yeas im aware of the 6k rev limit on the cast crank, but what if i set the rev limit to 6k should i be alright? i wouldnt shift that high and id would save me..
as of right now im just trying to get the motor installed and running. all the other stuff 9 suspention, rear axle, brakes, tranhny, etc.) will come in time after. I just want the car to move under its own power...of the 383..
I will ask about the intake porting at my local machine shop. if they do not/cant port the enitre intake I will take it else where.
as of right now im just trying to get the motor installed and running. all the other stuff 9 suspention, rear axle, brakes, tranhny, etc.) will come in time after. I just want the car to move under its own power...of the 383..
I will ask about the intake porting at my local machine shop. if they do not/cant port the enitre intake I will take it else where.
08-02-2012, 05:06 PM
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As the other guys said, save the money on the porting....get it port matched to the heads but you will not be running enough power to need a ported intake.
Also, just a question, but why not switch to the forged crank while you still have the engine out? If you are willing to spend the money on a 9", full suspension, built tranny and all that jazz, why not just sell the cast crank, get the forged, have it re-balanced and do it right while you have it out and ready?? It will be a LOT easier to do it now than it will later.. Just curious if you have an actually reason for it, or if you just want to keep the cast crank only because you want to rush
Also, just a question, but why not switch to the forged crank while you still have the engine out? If you are willing to spend the money on a 9", full suspension, built tranny and all that jazz, why not just sell the cast crank, get the forged, have it re-balanced and do it right while you have it out and ready?? It will be a LOT easier to do it now than it will later.. Just curious if you have an actually reason for it, or if you just want to keep the cast crank only because you want to rush
08-02-2012, 05:27 PM
#24
Does that 3lbs actually matter?
Blind more is better mentality. Other porters get good results with their level of porting, never weighed one before and after to find out how much is removed
If porting an intake I will always recommend having it done by the head guy whomever that is.
The only thing you have said that was dumber than suggesting LE port it was to then say he could ship the heads to LE so he could port it, I am sure the shipping charges are worthwhile. I know it was just backpedalling trying to make up an excuse to pretend you were not flat out giving bad advise.
08-02-2012, 05:29 PM
#25
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Money is tight i guess with the engine build right now... Dont really know what the Scat 383 crank is worth by itself. Which Forged crankshaft would i look at?
this is over a length of time. no rush for the other parts i just want the 383 to run..sooner rather than later.
this is over a length of time. no rush for the other parts i just want the 383 to run..sooner rather than later.
08-02-2012, 05:38 PM
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Does that 3lbs actually matter?
Blind more is better mentality. Other porters get good results with their level of porting, never weighed one before and after to find out how much is removed
If porting an intake I will always recommend having it done by the head guy whomever that is.
The only thing you have said that was dumber than suggesting LE port it was to then say he could ship the heads to LE so he could port it, I am sure the shipping charges are worthwhile. I know it was just backpedalling trying to make up an excuse to pretend you were not flat out giving bad advise.
Blind more is better mentality. Other porters get good results with their level of porting, never weighed one before and after to find out how much is removed
If porting an intake I will always recommend having it done by the head guy whomever that is.
The only thing you have said that was dumber than suggesting LE port it was to then say he could ship the heads to LE so he could port it, I am sure the shipping charges are worthwhile. I know it was just backpedalling trying to make up an excuse to pretend you were not flat out giving bad advise.
On top of that, I am not going off of "Blind Faith" like you suggest in the private message you just sent me. I have had another port shop work on my manifold twice. I was VERY unhappy with the results. Some people do not have access to great shops in their areas...others do. It is great if you have a good shop locally that can do these things, but I didnt so I made a choice and shipped mine. Quit attacking people for making a simple suggestion.
08-03-2012, 12:37 PM
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If youre staying NA and keeping the revs to 6k or 6500 the cast crank will be fine, just realize your limitations with it and don't get greedy.
The cast cranks though inferior to forged steel cranks will get the job done. I ran one for a few years and spun every gear up to 6800 rpm. It lasted 4 or 5 years this way. Mine was ruined when I stuck notrous on with an inferior converter, the converter balooned and the quality of the crank showed and it ate the thrust bearing, I rolled a new one in and drove it for another 20k (without nitrous) while i built my present short block. Had I to do it over again, I would have bought a better converter (now have a PI) and bought a better crank (new motor has the 4340 non-twist forged peice).
Keep this in mind as you play.
Note, check the gasket to the intake and the heads when they come in, compare the diff, I know my intake was actually alsmost identical to the gasket and the heads were slightly diff from the gasket. In this case there was no need for port matching except on the heads.
The cast cranks though inferior to forged steel cranks will get the job done. I ran one for a few years and spun every gear up to 6800 rpm. It lasted 4 or 5 years this way. Mine was ruined when I stuck notrous on with an inferior converter, the converter balooned and the quality of the crank showed and it ate the thrust bearing, I rolled a new one in and drove it for another 20k (without nitrous) while i built my present short block. Had I to do it over again, I would have bought a better converter (now have a PI) and bought a better crank (new motor has the 4340 non-twist forged peice).
Keep this in mind as you play.
Note, check the gasket to the intake and the heads when they come in, compare the diff, I know my intake was actually alsmost identical to the gasket and the heads were slightly diff from the gasket. In this case there was no need for port matching except on the heads.
08-03-2012, 09:45 PM
#29
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260 for a port match. Holy crap I paid 100. If it were me doing this build I would wait longer to afford the forged crank. I know I wouldn't be able to keep it under 6k tho. Just seems like a place I wouldn't cut a corner.
08-04-2012, 04:24 PM
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If youre staying NA and keeping the revs to 6k or 6500 the cast crank will be fine, just realize your limitations with it and don't get greedy.
The cast cranks though inferior to forged steel cranks will get the job done. I ran one for a few years and spun every gear up to 6800 rpm. It lasted 4 or 5 years this way. Mine was ruined when I stuck notrous on with an inferior converter, the converter balooned and the quality of the crank showed and it ate the thrust bearing, I rolled a new one in and drove it for another 20k (without nitrous) while i built my present short block. Had I to do it over again, I would have bought a better converter (now have a PI) and bought a better crank (new motor has the 4340 non-twist forged peice).
Keep this in mind as you play.
Note, check the gasket to the intake and the heads when they come in, compare the diff, I know my intake was actually alsmost identical to the gasket and the heads were slightly diff from the gasket. In this case there was no need for port matching except on the heads.
The cast cranks though inferior to forged steel cranks will get the job done. I ran one for a few years and spun every gear up to 6800 rpm. It lasted 4 or 5 years this way. Mine was ruined when I stuck notrous on with an inferior converter, the converter balooned and the quality of the crank showed and it ate the thrust bearing, I rolled a new one in and drove it for another 20k (without nitrous) while i built my present short block. Had I to do it over again, I would have bought a better converter (now have a PI) and bought a better crank (new motor has the 4340 non-twist forged peice).
Keep this in mind as you play.
Note, check the gasket to the intake and the heads when they come in, compare the diff, I know my intake was actually alsmost identical to the gasket and the heads were slightly diff from the gasket. In this case there was no need for port matching except on the heads.
Yes i am going to keep it N/A So i should be ok correct? a Forged crank is big money...that of which i dont have, hence why i went with the SCAT kit..
Then again there are people that say they have gone a long time with a cast crank and havent had any problems.
08-04-2012, 04:49 PM
#31
Eagle cast have had a LOT of issues on mild builds in recent years. point being you have a different brand, and that OLD reports of cast cranks working should be disregarded. On top of that it is ever easier to make hp.
You would have had a more powerful build and stronger engine if you kept the stock crank and put the cast crank money elsewhere.
You would have had a more powerful build and stronger engine if you kept the stock crank and put the cast crank money elsewhere.
08-07-2012, 05:27 PM
#32
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Stock oil pump will suck the oil pan dry (cavitate) in about 2-3 secs around 6500 RPM, if I remember the numbers correctly; doesn't take long, anyway. Go with the Melling oil pump. It was recommended to me and has the thicker neck to prevent breaking.
I went w/ a cast crank in my stroker build, as I was also told it would be fine for my DD application. Good advise to keep the rev limits stock. I have heard the same complaints about Eagle cranks, and was recommended Scat. I believe the quality of metal or the casting/forging process is down with USA companies now a days. I've been told that Chinese actually have a better metal/process and that US companies are trying to emulate that now. Just what I heard from my local race shop who built mine; they've been in the business for many years and have seen the quality drop.
I also kept my intake stock; was told the same thing.
And be careful w/ piston-to-valve clearance w/ the stroker. Don't want to go too high on your lift. I stuck w/ 1.5 rr and .510 lift, 271/282 duration on a custom grind.
Looks like your thinking about the rest of your driveline too. That's good. I haven't touched mine and hope it doesn't break. I'm keeping stock tires on till I do!
Good luck!
I went w/ a cast crank in my stroker build, as I was also told it would be fine for my DD application. Good advise to keep the rev limits stock. I have heard the same complaints about Eagle cranks, and was recommended Scat. I believe the quality of metal or the casting/forging process is down with USA companies now a days. I've been told that Chinese actually have a better metal/process and that US companies are trying to emulate that now. Just what I heard from my local race shop who built mine; they've been in the business for many years and have seen the quality drop.
I also kept my intake stock; was told the same thing.
And be careful w/ piston-to-valve clearance w/ the stroker. Don't want to go too high on your lift. I stuck w/ 1.5 rr and .510 lift, 271/282 duration on a custom grind.
Looks like your thinking about the rest of your driveline too. That's good. I haven't touched mine and hope it doesn't break. I'm keeping stock tires on till I do!
Good luck!
08-07-2012, 08:06 PM
#33
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If you're asking which FORGED crank you should throw in your 383, Eagle is tried and true, good stuff. ONLY the forged though, their cast cranks are the worst.
08-07-2012, 08:58 PM
#34
Stock oil pump will suck the oil pan dry (cavitate) in about 2-3 secs around 6500 RPM, if I remember the numbers correctly; doesn't take long, anyway. Go with the Melling oil pump. It was recommended to me and has the thicker neck to prevent breaking.
I went w/ a cast crank in my stroker build, as I was also told it would be fine for my DD application. Good advise to keep the rev limits stock. I have heard the same complaints about Eagle cranks, and was recommended Scat. I believe the quality of metal or the casting/forging process is down with USA companies now a days. I've been told that Chinese actually have a better metal/process and that US companies are trying to emulate that now. Just what I heard from my local race shop who built mine; they've been in the business for many years and have seen the quality drop.
I also kept my intake stock; was told the same thing.
And be careful w/ piston-to-valve clearance w/ the stroker. Don't want to go too high on your lift. I stuck w/ 1.5 rr and .510 lift, 271/282 duration on a custom grind.
Looks like your thinking about the rest of your driveline too. That's good. I haven't touched mine and hope it doesn't break. I'm keeping stock tires on till I do!
Good luck!
I went w/ a cast crank in my stroker build, as I was also told it would be fine for my DD application. Good advise to keep the rev limits stock. I have heard the same complaints about Eagle cranks, and was recommended Scat. I believe the quality of metal or the casting/forging process is down with USA companies now a days. I've been told that Chinese actually have a better metal/process and that US companies are trying to emulate that now. Just what I heard from my local race shop who built mine; they've been in the business for many years and have seen the quality drop.
I also kept my intake stock; was told the same thing.
And be careful w/ piston-to-valve clearance w/ the stroker. Don't want to go too high on your lift. I stuck w/ 1.5 rr and .510 lift, 271/282 duration on a custom grind.
Looks like your thinking about the rest of your driveline too. That's good. I haven't touched mine and hope it doesn't break. I'm keeping stock tires on till I do!
Good luck!
Only way I can figure someone could put so much bad info in one post is if it was on purpose.
You need to stop offering advise.
On the oilpump ever thought of the fact the oil is actively draining back at the same time? The stock oilpump is fine volume wise.
Lots of guys have posted here after their cast crank that was "fine" fragged most shops don't seem to comprehend the power we are making with street engines these days, though with your retardedly low lift on your super special custom cam I don't think you will have that problem.
Chinese make better metal???????????????????? Maybe they can but the Eagle cast **** aint an example.
Your "local race shop" is either idiots or they were having fun with you when they saw what an idiot you were.
Far as the PTV clearance, not a significant issue on street LT1s, a LOT of car out there in the .580-.610 lift range with good quench and no PTV issues. OTHER engines it is a genuine concern, not often a concern with LT1s. Yes some guys with aggreessive builds do find some clearance issues but they are running a LOT more cam lots of duration and likely solidly over .600lift.
Go to the track and post up your 13 second slip for us all to laugh at.
Last edited by 96capricemgr; 08-07-2012 at 09:09 PM.
08-07-2012, 10:33 PM
#35
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As stated before, I swaped out the High Volume Oil Pump for a Meling..
The heads are being sent to AI for the 190cc treatment with the FULL 1.6 Valvetrain w/ LS7 lifters,etc. A custom cam that has a good powerband without blowing that 6500 mark. Ill keep it updated. As far as the intake goes, i just want the TB bored out and the PORTS matched. Not the entire manifold. WAYY to much $$ for the .5 horse it gonna add. All the gaskets will also be port matched.
Any ideas of a decent Forged Crankshaft thats not 1000$?? The dragonslayer is way more than i need... what are you guys using?
The heads are being sent to AI for the 190cc treatment with the FULL 1.6 Valvetrain w/ LS7 lifters,etc. A custom cam that has a good powerband without blowing that 6500 mark. Ill keep it updated. As far as the intake goes, i just want the TB bored out and the PORTS matched. Not the entire manifold. WAYY to much $$ for the .5 horse it gonna add. All the gaskets will also be port matched.
Any ideas of a decent Forged Crankshaft thats not 1000$?? The dragonslayer is way more than i need... what are you guys using?
08-08-2012, 06:31 PM
#36
The chinese forged cranks plenty of brands are a lot cheaper than that and plenty strong, they do however need to be checked dimensionally and sometimes machined and can sometimes be hard to balance.
Non-sponsor links are frowned on but go to competitionproducts dot com part number 383-113 it is $500
Non-sponsor links are frowned on but go to competitionproducts dot com part number 383-113 it is $500
08-08-2012, 08:28 PM
#37
I'm guessing this is a scat 383 kit,why not replace the cast unit with a forged unit from scat? Target bobweight should be close and will save you some money and the possibility of having to use mallory metal which will drive the price up even higher. If you got the kit from the machine shop I would make them buy back the cast unit from you and also do net price on the new one since they made the mistake of selling you on something that does not meet the needs of what you are trying to do. You are putting ai heads on the thing,let it eat. It's like you are choosing the ugly girl that's a prude, when the hot one that wants to **** is waiting for you.
08-09-2012, 12:19 PM
#39
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are you some sort of troll?
Only way I can figure someone could put so much bad info in one post is if it was on purpose.
You need to stop offering advise.
On the oilpump ever thought of the fact the oil is actively draining back at the same time? The stock oilpump is fine volume wise.
Lots of guys have posted here after their cast crank that was "fine" fragged most shops don't seem to comprehend the power we are making with street engines these days, though with your retardedly low lift on your super special custom cam I don't think you will have that problem.
Chinese make better metal???????????????????? Maybe they can but the Eagle cast **** aint an example.
Your "local race shop" is either idiots or they were having fun with you when they saw what an idiot you were.
Far as the PTV clearance, not a significant issue on street LT1s, a LOT of car out there in the .580-.610 lift range with good quench and no PTV issues. OTHER engines it is a genuine concern, not often a concern with LT1s. Yes some guys with aggreessive builds do find some clearance issues but they are running a LOT more cam lots of duration and likely solidly over .600lift.
Go to the track and post up your 13 second slip for us all to laugh at.
Only way I can figure someone could put so much bad info in one post is if it was on purpose.
You need to stop offering advise.
On the oilpump ever thought of the fact the oil is actively draining back at the same time? The stock oilpump is fine volume wise.
Lots of guys have posted here after their cast crank that was "fine" fragged most shops don't seem to comprehend the power we are making with street engines these days, though with your retardedly low lift on your super special custom cam I don't think you will have that problem.
Chinese make better metal???????????????????? Maybe they can but the Eagle cast **** aint an example.
Your "local race shop" is either idiots or they were having fun with you when they saw what an idiot you were.
Far as the PTV clearance, not a significant issue on street LT1s, a LOT of car out there in the .580-.610 lift range with good quench and no PTV issues. OTHER engines it is a genuine concern, not often a concern with LT1s. Yes some guys with aggreessive builds do find some clearance issues but they are running a LOT more cam lots of duration and likely solidly over .600lift.
Go to the track and post up your 13 second slip for us all to laugh at.
08-09-2012, 01:07 PM
#40
No, what is unnecessary is for some grossly misinformed individual to be offering bad advise.
If nobody makes a point of how wildly incorrect you are someone else might actually listen to you, hell even now there are probably a few people who will listen to you because some dimwit at joebob's machine and bait shop told them similar things.
What is the compression on your beast of an engine? In the 10s"for pump gas friendliness"? Those of us who have been around awhile have seen a lot of this. It is sad how many "reputable" local shops completely destroy an LT1 build with weaker than stock cast cranks, stock or lower compression, ridiculously wide LSA on the low lift cam etc.
If nobody makes a point of how wildly incorrect you are someone else might actually listen to you, hell even now there are probably a few people who will listen to you because some dimwit at joebob's machine and bait shop told them similar things.
What is the compression on your beast of an engine? In the 10s"for pump gas friendliness"? Those of us who have been around awhile have seen a lot of this. It is sad how many "reputable" local shops completely destroy an LT1 build with weaker than stock cast cranks, stock or lower compression, ridiculously wide LSA on the low lift cam etc.
