bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

I have 2 shortblocks right now, 1 that was pulled 10 minutes after developing a rod knock, and 1 that is in my car right now that makes no noise and runs excellent. I want to do the most basic, cheap refresh possible. I have never assembled an engine, and want to assemble one myself, in my own garage/guest bedroom, without dropping big $$, as a learning experience. Motor will be in no way shape or form a DD, just something to play with for now until I go LS. I will, however, be putting in a big *** cam, and spin the bitch to 6700-7000 rpm. Probably a GM847 or cc306 because they are cheap and plentiful, and doing a basic home head/intake porting job using the guidelines Lloyd has posted up and other sites I have researched on and some 0.026 head gaskets (DONT NEED YOUR OPINION ON HEAD PORTING, IM DOING IT REGARDLESS THIS WINTER, END OF THAT DISCUSSION)

Here is where I need opinions, as I dont know what kind of damage rod knock does on a crank, or what the MANDATORY machine work needs done on a shortblock rebuild:

Case A: Use the motor with the rod knock, when I pulled the heads still had all cross hatching on cylinder walls, only got a rod knock because I drove it for 30,000 miles after the oil pickup tube fell off.

Plan would be:
Do some simple oil drain back deburring, like quick95 (mike) did on his block last season
Send block out for hone and clean, NO OTHER WORK
Cut the crank however much needed, resize factory rods for ARP bolts, new clevite P series bearings, ARP main studs, maybe new rings maybe not, new cam bearings, gm white spring, new factory timing set. If crank is toast, find another used crank.

Sell running shortblock for $300 to offset cost of machine work

Case B: Use the motor with no damage

Plan would be:
Do some simple oil drain back deburring, like quick95 (mike) did on his block last season
Send block out for hone and clean, NO OTHER WORK (Do I even need to send it to a machine shop or can I clean it at home?)
Resize factory rods for ARP bolts, stock size clevite P series bearings, ARP main studs, new cam bearings, gm white spring, new factory timing set

Part out/sell motor with rod knock for $150 to offset some costs

Are either of these ideas possible or do I really need to do more machine work to either block/crank?

I just sent some machine shops in the area emails for quotes on resizing rods and cutting cranks. If I dont do either of these builds, I will just be putting in some used 224/230ish cam and hand porting my heads this winter on the shortblock currently in the car and driving it until it explodes.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Have the shop do the prep work and reconditioning of the rotating assembly. Then you do the assemble work. There are many "how to rebuild SBC" books that are good. The ones I have are:




All excellent reading.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

Parts list that I NEED no matter what comes from tearing apart the block:

0.026 head gaskets $42 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mr...make/chevrolet

GM white spring $4 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-3848911/overview/

Stock replacement timing chain Cloyes C506 $13 http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/prt,47,C506

Stock replacement crank sprocket Cloyes S505 $18 http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,cata...OYES_S505.html

Rod bolts $75 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ar...make/chevrolet

Timing cover gasket set Part # TCS45953 $8 www.rockauto.com

Cam bearings $28 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cl...make/chevrolet

Competition clutch stage 2.5 (2 links dont know who has it)
http://sohiperformance.com/chevrolet...FbBj7AodzyQA_A
http://clutchflywheel.com/competitio.../i-404279.aspx

30lb injectors new $280 or used $100

LABOR I NEED:

Ellison Machine shop http://www.ellisonsmachineshop.com/

$80.00 Resize rods
$125.00 Deck block 0.010
$80.00 Hone cylinders back to round (stock bore) .
$55.00 to polish crank
$45.00 install cam bearings

PARTS I NEED DEPENDING ON BLOCK WORK TO FIGURE OUT IF THEY NEED TO BE UNDERSIZED:

Main bearings $40 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cl...make/chevrolet

Rod bearings $25 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cl...make/chevrolet

Im at $258 plus shipping and tax and assembly lube, so call it $300 for the bottom end to be rebuilt

Parts I HAVE:

used 230/240 107.5 565/562 cam (602/599 on 1.6s) $175

reuse felpro oil pain and valve cover gaskets from last time I had this motor apart $FREE

Main bolts reuse stock since Im a 94 $FREE

Reuse cam sprocket $Free

Crane Dual springs (already on heads) http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane-Cams/271/10308-1/10002/-1

reuse stock lifters $FREE

reuse rest of valvetrain parts, but probably new pushrods, get them used and sell mine to offset cost so about $FREE

Ported stock heads with 2.02/1.6 valves $275

Plus keep all the tools like ring compressor, dial gauges, etc for future builds

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

IMO I would let the machine shop order the rings/bearings. Something goes wrong and they can easily blame the parts they did not order.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

Do I even NEED to use a machine shop if I use the running engine? Cant I just clean it myself?

gjohnsonws6

iTrader: (12)

You will have to have the mains line honed if you use studs. Just use bolts

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

As stated, if you use different bolts on the rod and main caps then you will need a line hone and the caps resized. I would also suggest having the shop do the cam bearings as well as hot tank it so it looks brand new, but that's just me being the conservative snoot I am. The crank should be checked out as well to ensure bearing tolerances are in check. Last thing you want to do is build this engine and then have wonky oil pressure.

quik95lt1

iTrader: (7)

buffmatt how far are you from RI? if you wanna build one this winter ill do it with you at my garage.....ill call tony down be a fun day

TexasTarnation

Have them check the crank be being under or egged. They shouldn't charge for this, it takes all of 30 seconds. These motors are easy to do, most SBC are. I think you hand porting will just be like someone else hand porting it, check out powerblocks episode on it.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

Mike, im in md but my family and my engine with the knock are in ct, and ill be in ct for a few days over christmas, but that wont give me enough time to get the machine work on that engine done. Ill see how my wife feels about me sticking my running engine in the back of her car and driving it up there, but my spider senses tell me it will be a no. Appreciate the offer, that would be fun, ill see if i can figure something out.

quik95lt1

iTrader: (7)

yea i mean machine work is a short item depending on what needs to be done......you going to run stock pistons in it? if so a simple ball hone is all it needs and micro polishing the crank will more than likely be enough......its a very simple procedure if your going super budget minded

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

Yea stock pistons stock rods, pretty much just using this as a learning experience, not going for any lofty hp goals or anything, just learn to assemble an engine, and to tune obd1 myself. Put a $100 cc306 in it, 11.1:1 compression with 0.026 gaskets, mild port work around valve guides and cleaning up the top of the runners, and injector bosses in intake. Stock injectors, reuse my valvetrain parts i have but use dual springs. Should be able to rip it to the low 11s easily.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

Are main bolts for a sbc and lt the same? Can i avoid a line hone if i use tty main bolts again? Or is arp main bolts absolutely necessary for 6900 rpm? If i use arp bolts not studs do i still need a line hone? I got a quote from a local shop for $225 for line hone. I could have sworn there is a b body on here spinning 6900 with only arp rod bolts...

quik95lt1

iTrader: (7)

id get another set of gm main bolts and use those

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

Well, seems MIR has cancelled tomorrows test n tune, so my season is over. Time to start shopping

97Z28SS

iTrader: (5)

If the engine had a rod knock you will want to get the rods resized along with the ARP rod bolts and have the crank checked. Also r u planning on spraying at all? If it were me I'd get some Probe forged replacement pistons and Scat ProComp 4340 rods with the 7/16 cap screws, polish the crank and have it balanced. Get the block bored/honed, align hone the mains and hot tanked then have the cam bearings installed by the machineshop as well and assemble everything yourself. This way with the home ported heads/intake and the cam you'll be able to spin the motor to 6700 rpm and even spray it if you want, plus once you have your LSx ready you'll be able to get good money for your 355 engine.

TwoFast4Lv

iTrader: (8)

I am just in Awe. If you are going to be that cheap no reason for bolts or a timing chain gears.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

No spray. Purely an exercise in assembling an engine. I will be using my engine that runs great, no rod knock. The rod knock engine will be sold as a core.

Anyone want to buy a shortblock with a rod knock for $200?


Be in awe all you want. I know I could cam my current engine and run her till she blows, but I want to assemble an engine.

Current plans are resize rods for ARP bolts ($80 local shop), NOT send block to machine shop, stock gm mail bolts, clevite P series bearings, 0.026 gaskets, hand ported heads, Rock Auto timing set ($80), best (by my definition that will end around 7000, gm947 or some random LE cam that pops up in the classifieds) cam I can get used for $150 or less, new Lunati dual springs, current Pro Mags, current 4.33 gears, ALDL cable and free software, and just dick with it for a while. If it blows, it blows. All will be done in my guest bedroom downstairs in my house to my wifes chagrin.

TwoFast4Lv

iTrader: (8)

IF the short block you are using is a 95 or older you do not need bolts. they are not TTY like the 96 up stuff.

I have made over 400RWHP through a stock GM assembled short block with a cam and heads.


I hope you are ready for the wrath this is going to bring with your wife IF/When it blow so will she in one way or another...even if she says its cool now it will be an issue then

bowtienut

iTrader: (1)

I agree on the wife issue! Unless she has some sort of female disorder that makes her numb to this stuff....lol!
Yep, 400 rwhp is no sweat for a stock bottom and a good top end. Mine made 425 SAE through an auto and small Tri-Y headers. The resized rods are the biggest factor in keeping it in one piece.
bufmat, are you running the stock WP or EWP? Either way, get the Cloyes option timing set from RockAuto. They always seem to fit nice n tight; the others are a crap shoot.
I'd reconsider the high rpm cams you've mentioned if you're shooting for only 11-ish CR. That's a recipe for less usable power and worse ET's. Either use a .015" head gasket (of course this requires flat decks) or step back to about a 228 duration cam.