Issue After Cam Install
01-01-2014, 09:20 AM
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Issue After Cam Install Well I just got done installing the hotcam kit. Drove around for a few days and everything was good. I noticed I had a loose rocker so I adjusted that last night with the car running. Then after, I started getting a blinking SES light. I read that it is a misfire. I checked all the wires and plugs and they seem fine. When I drive it, it kind of bucks a little. The light will come on (blinking) for maybe 10-15 seconds then go off, then come on and back off. The car has also begun to be hard to start. Any ideas?
01-01-2014, 10:03 AM
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I agree with the above. I would recheck your rockers and you could narrow it down by scanning it. It will tell you the which cylinders is getting the misfire.
01-01-2014, 05:01 PM
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Yes the car was tuned by madtuner. I'll have to recheck plugs and wires. I'll also redo that rocker again. The car runs like crap. It sounds horrible at idle and with any amount of throttle.
01-01-2014, 05:33 PM
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Im assuming it wasn’t misfiring prior to you adjusting the rocker?! I would start by making sure your wires aren’t arching & your plugs are in good shape and operating properly along with your Optispark.
01-01-2014, 06:22 PM
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No it wasn't. The car just had a clicking noise from the rocker. After adjusting the rocker, the noise went away but it started running horribly that's why I don't believe it's the plugs or wires.
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01-01-2014, 08:57 PM
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Just rechecked the rocker I adjusted. The pushrod was bent... I must have over tightened it when I readjusted it 
so what pushrods should I get? Does the hotcam need hardened, chromoly, etc.?
so what pushrods should I get? Does the hotcam need hardened, chromoly, etc.?
01-01-2014, 09:14 PM
#10
If you over-tightened a valve and bent a pushrod, you may have also tweaked that valve. I would recommend performing a compression check or, better yet, a cylinder pressure leak-down check. If you're lucky, you may need only a pushrod but if the tests indicate that a valve is bent, prepare to remove the head to fix it. If the pushrod bent because the adjustment was too loose and allowed the rocker arm to jump, you may have lucked out.
You don't necessarily need to use exotic pushrods on a mild cam unless you dramatically increase the spring pressure or non-self-aligning rockers with pushrod guide plates. Even a chrome-moly pushrod will bend if you mess up the valve adjustment severely enough.
Good luck,
c
You don't necessarily need to use exotic pushrods on a mild cam unless you dramatically increase the spring pressure or non-self-aligning rockers with pushrod guide plates. Even a chrome-moly pushrod will bend if you mess up the valve adjustment severely enough.
Good luck,
c
01-01-2014, 09:56 PM
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If you over-tightened a valve and bent a pushrod, you may have also tweaked that valve. I would recommend performing a compression check or, better yet, a cylinder pressure leak-down check. If you're lucky, you may need only a pushrod but if the tests indicate that a valve is bent, prepare to remove the head to fix it. If the pushrod bent because the adjustment was too loose and allowed the rocker arm to jump, you may have lucked out.
You don't necessarily need to use exotic pushrods on a mild cam unless you dramatically increase the spring pressure or non-self-aligning rockers with pushrod guide plates. Even a chrome-moly pushrod will bend if you mess up the valve adjustment severely enough.
Good luck,
c
You don't necessarily need to use exotic pushrods on a mild cam unless you dramatically increase the spring pressure or non-self-aligning rockers with pushrod guide plates. Even a chrome-moly pushrod will bend if you mess up the valve adjustment severely enough.
Good luck,
c
01-01-2014, 10:11 PM
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Blinking SES light means u have a code waiting for u to read. U need that code.
Loose rocker means that lifter was either not adj correctly or the cam lobe has wiped. If entire engine runs badly now could mean all or most lifters adj are bad and all or most cam lobes are bad.
Wall, more than few regulars on this forum encourage cam changes and vlv adj as is easy even for first timers. Well reality it is highly critical to do correctly or anyone can end up with a trashed cam and vlv train. Ive had wiped cam lobes before myself and my first reaction was denial.
Since u have been driving it for a few days and its deteriorating rather than getting better you should get an vlv train inspection. But first get those codes scanned.
Not trying to scare u or upset u but u may have some permanent damage.
If u want to try vlv adj 1 more time then dont use the by noise method. Or dont use the feel/see the rocker method.
If u can get an old vlv cover and cut the top open (remove sharp edges). With car running at idle loosen the rocker lock nut until the p-rod is loose then tighten until no futher up and down movement can be felt with your fingers - yes stick your hands in there and try to roll the p-rod with your fingers. Once u can roll the p-rod with your fingers but cannot move it up or down u are at zero lash - a little drag is ok when u roll the p-rod. Finally tighten rocker nut 1/2 to 1 full turn. Move to next rocker.
We dont know what u have for rockers or springs or p-rods or how the vlv train alignment is. Only u do.
Let us know what u find,
cardo
Loose rocker means that lifter was either not adj correctly or the cam lobe has wiped. If entire engine runs badly now could mean all or most lifters adj are bad and all or most cam lobes are bad.
Wall, more than few regulars on this forum encourage cam changes and vlv adj as is easy even for first timers. Well reality it is highly critical to do correctly or anyone can end up with a trashed cam and vlv train. Ive had wiped cam lobes before myself and my first reaction was denial.
Since u have been driving it for a few days and its deteriorating rather than getting better you should get an vlv train inspection. But first get those codes scanned.
Not trying to scare u or upset u but u may have some permanent damage.
If u want to try vlv adj 1 more time then dont use the by noise method. Or dont use the feel/see the rocker method.
If u can get an old vlv cover and cut the top open (remove sharp edges). With car running at idle loosen the rocker lock nut until the p-rod is loose then tighten until no futher up and down movement can be felt with your fingers - yes stick your hands in there and try to roll the p-rod with your fingers. Once u can roll the p-rod with your fingers but cannot move it up or down u are at zero lash - a little drag is ok when u roll the p-rod. Finally tighten rocker nut 1/2 to 1 full turn. Move to next rocker.
We dont know what u have for rockers or springs or p-rods or how the vlv train alignment is. Only u do.
Let us know what u find,
cardo
01-01-2014, 10:33 PM
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Blinking SES light means u have a code waiting for u to read. U need that code.
Loose rocker means that lifter was either not adj correctly or the cam lobe has wiped. If entire engine runs badly now could mean all or most lifters adj are bad and all or most cam lobes are bad.
Wall, more than few regulars on this forum encourage cam changes and vlv adj as is easy even for first timers. Well reality it is highly critical to do correctly or anyone can end up with a trashed cam and vlv train. Ive had wiped cam lobes before myself and my first reaction was denial.
Since u have been driving it for a few days and its deteriorating rather than getting better you should get an vlv train inspection. But first get those codes scanned.
Not trying to scare u or upset u but u may have some permanent damage.
If u want to try vlv adj 1 more time then dont use the by noise method. Or dont use the feel/see the rocker method.
If u can get an old vlv cover and cut the top open (remove sharp edges). With car running at idle loosen the rocker lock nut until the p-rod is loose then tighten until no futher up and down movement can be felt with your fingers - yes stick your hands in there and try to roll the p-rod with your fingers. Once u can roll the p-rod with your fingers but cannot move it up or down u are at zero lash - a little drag is ok when u roll the p-rod. Finally tighten rocker nut 1/2 to 1 full turn. Move to next rocker.
We dont know what u have for rockers or springs or p-rods or how the vlv train alignment is. Only u do.
Let us know what u find,
cardo
Loose rocker means that lifter was either not adj correctly or the cam lobe has wiped. If entire engine runs badly now could mean all or most lifters adj are bad and all or most cam lobes are bad.
Wall, more than few regulars on this forum encourage cam changes and vlv adj as is easy even for first timers. Well reality it is highly critical to do correctly or anyone can end up with a trashed cam and vlv train. Ive had wiped cam lobes before myself and my first reaction was denial.
Since u have been driving it for a few days and its deteriorating rather than getting better you should get an vlv train inspection. But first get those codes scanned.
Not trying to scare u or upset u but u may have some permanent damage.
If u want to try vlv adj 1 more time then dont use the by noise method. Or dont use the feel/see the rocker method.
If u can get an old vlv cover and cut the top open (remove sharp edges). With car running at idle loosen the rocker lock nut until the p-rod is loose then tighten until no futher up and down movement can be felt with your fingers - yes stick your hands in there and try to roll the p-rod with your fingers. Once u can roll the p-rod with your fingers but cannot move it up or down u are at zero lash - a little drag is ok when u roll the p-rod. Finally tighten rocker nut 1/2 to 1 full turn. Move to next rocker.
We dont know what u have for rockers or springs or p-rods or how the vlv train alignment is. Only u do.
Let us know what u find,
cardo
Also, I haven't been driving the car every day causing it to deteriorate. I drove it with a noisy rocker for like a day or two, no issues, no check engine lights. I went to adjust the rocker, start it back up and drive just around the neighborhood, and it started acting up, and also the blinking SES light. Pulled the rocker and pushrod and found it bent. ( I believe I over tightened it by accident) That's where I'm at now. I believe I just need to order new pushrods and wait to restart the car. Maybe the code will come up again, I'm not sure honestly.
Here are pictures of the bent pushrod by a straight one for reference:
This is a scuff on the pushrod that I believe caused the bend:
Last edited by Wallj; 01-01-2014 at 10:43 PM.
01-02-2014, 02:27 AM
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Those pix help. Com'on Wall, the computer has a memory with history. Any code that comes in is stored in history and the only way to clear them is to pull the PCM fuse or lift the batt + term. If u cant read the scan code find someone who can. But with a bent p-rod u know the problem is in the vlv train.
Bent p-rod can be to tight or to loose vlv adj, or even weak p-rod with strong springs or to weal springs that are over compressed to bind together, crooked rocker alignment or some kind of rocker binding/interference with the spring/retainer or even the rocker stud.
U can try the vlv adj again but if u do it correctly as i described then u need to look else where - in the vlv train.
cardo
Bent p-rod can be to tight or to loose vlv adj, or even weak p-rod with strong springs or to weal springs that are over compressed to bind together, crooked rocker alignment or some kind of rocker binding/interference with the spring/retainer or even the rocker stud.
U can try the vlv adj again but if u do it correctly as i described then u need to look else where - in the vlv train.
cardo
01-02-2014, 07:33 AM
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You need to do a compression test on that cylinder with the bent pushrod. It's quite possible, if you did adjust that rocker too tight the valve may of made contact with the piston.
Not sure what method you used to adjust valves, but this site has a few methods and they all work as long as you understand them and follow them word for word.
http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech2.html#adjust_valves
Before doing a compressoin test, replace the pushrod or pushrods, depending on if any more have been damaged, adjust the valves correctly, then do a compression test. Report your findings. On average you should have around 180 to 210psi per cylinder. What matters is that they are all within 10% of each other.
Not sure what method you used to adjust valves, but this site has a few methods and they all work as long as you understand them and follow them word for word.
http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech2.html#adjust_valves
Before doing a compressoin test, replace the pushrod or pushrods, depending on if any more have been damaged, adjust the valves correctly, then do a compression test. Report your findings. On average you should have around 180 to 210psi per cylinder. What matters is that they are all within 10% of each other.
01-02-2014, 09:53 AM
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my guess is the pushrod initially bent and that's why he had to re adjust the rocker. typically after zero lash a guy will give a hydraulic lifter from 1\2 to a full turn on the nut. but since it was ran for a while with a loose rocker the lifter would be pumped all the way up. that's why it would misfire after re adjusting the rocker. it would have been holding the valve open a little bit. this is a very common occurance, and a non issue. all one has to do is run it for a few minutes and the lifter will bleed back down to where it needs to be.
he would have had to over tighten the hell out of it to have piston to valve contact.
he would have had to over tighten the hell out of it to have piston to valve contact.
01-02-2014, 11:50 AM
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typically after zero lash a guy will give a hydraulic lifter from 1\2 to a full turn on the nut. but since it was ran for a while with a loose rocker the lifter would be pumped all the way up. that's why it would misfire after re adjusting the rocker. it would have been holding the valve open a little bit. this is a very common occurrence, and a non issue. all one has to do is run it for a few minutes and the lifter will bleed back down to where it needs to be.
Pump up? Lifter pump up occurs at high rpm while the lifter doesnt have the time to bleed down. And it holds the vlv open the amount it was compressed on adj - like 0.20" to 0.060"max. Once at low rpm again the lifter can bleed down. Aint no pump up while he adjusted at idle. The lifter bleeds down immediately as rpm is reduced. Too bad u continue to post when u dont know WTF your talking about.
If u took 30 to 60 minutes to google a hyd lifter and how it works u could learn enough to help yourself rather than bum dope others.
A hyd lifter has a reservoir behind a check vlv that fills up as the p-rod cup is depressed. This oil press bleeds out around the sides of the lifter internal piston. The clearance between the piston and the lifter body side wall determines the bleed down rate and are high tolerance parts.
Once a hyd lifter is bottomed out after over adj (>0.060") it now holds the vlv open and Wall should recognize that imediately.
Reading nonsense posted here on hyd lifters is getting way old.
Pump up? Lifter pump up occurs at high rpm while the lifter doesnt have the time to bleed down. And it holds the vlv open the amount it was compressed on adj - like 0.20" to 0.060"max. Once at low rpm again the lifter can bleed down. Aint no pump up while he adjusted at idle. The lifter bleeds down immediately as rpm is reduced. Too bad u continue to post when u dont know WTF your talking about.
If u took 30 to 60 minutes to google a hyd lifter and how it works u could learn enough to help yourself rather than bum dope others.A hyd lifter has a reservoir behind a check vlv that fills up as the p-rod cup is depressed. This oil press bleeds out around the sides of the lifter internal piston. The clearance between the piston and the lifter body side wall determines the bleed down rate and are high tolerance parts.
Once a hyd lifter is bottomed out after over adj (>0.060") it now holds the vlv open and Wall should recognize that imediately.
Reading nonsense posted here on hyd lifters is getting way old.