396 lt1 help
03-18-2014, 10:47 PM
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396 lt1 help Hy guys i posted a thread a few days ago about a 396 procharged lt1 + nitrous. After getting your guys' advice and doing more research i have decided to drop the procharger. I will also clarify more things.
Heres my buid:
97 camaro-originally 3.8l car, doing lt1 swap because couldnt bring myself to sell it. It is going to be a street car with occasional strip visits. Will run on e85 as it is available everywhere here locally.
Here is what i have:
I have a 396 lt1 shortblock already have assembled and balanced:
-8cc dish pistons (diamond)
6" rods
Clevite central bearings
ARP 2000 rod bolts
3.875 inch stroke
I have a 4l60 transmission (NOT 4l60e) that i was going to use (maybe it would be okay now that there will not be a procharger anymore)
Suspension:
3 pt sub frame connectors
8 point roll cage
Not planning on any weight reduction and if i do it wont be anything major
Yes i know this isnt much at all but i have plans to start adding more suspension once i have the car running (remember this is mostly a street car)
I am planning to do a 200-300shot (or less if it will reach my goals).
Here is what i have planned to get, but dont yet have:
I was going to go through elliotportworks and purchase his Le3 heads + custom grind cam package.
Had plans for using edelbrock lt4 intake but i guess it seems it isnt too great of an intake.
Goals are to be running mostly on street w/ e85, i would like to be running low-mid 10's on motor and low 9's after nitrous, if not better on either of those.
This is only my second forum post so all/any help and constructive criticism will help.Also, no im not a v6 car driver trying to jump into a 9-10 second 1/4 car. I also have an 94 z28 basic bolt ons (58mm throttle body, cold air intake, SFC, strut bar, t-56, short throw, etc). Nothing too special especially compared to a 9 second car. But like i said, new to all of this just trying to make a dream come true. Thank you guys and im sorry if im missing anything important!
Specific questions:
What intake would you suggest for this?
Sound better with setup with nitrous only and deleting procharger from plans?
This would be okay with lt1 computer over a 24x then?
I know im forgetting things so feel free to ask and also add any useful tips or advice you have! Thanks again guys.
Heres my buid:
97 camaro-originally 3.8l car, doing lt1 swap because couldnt bring myself to sell it. It is going to be a street car with occasional strip visits. Will run on e85 as it is available everywhere here locally.
Here is what i have:
I have a 396 lt1 shortblock already have assembled and balanced:
-8cc dish pistons (diamond)
6" rods
Clevite central bearings
ARP 2000 rod bolts
3.875 inch stroke
I have a 4l60 transmission (NOT 4l60e) that i was going to use (maybe it would be okay now that there will not be a procharger anymore)
Suspension:
3 pt sub frame connectors
8 point roll cage
Not planning on any weight reduction and if i do it wont be anything major
Yes i know this isnt much at all but i have plans to start adding more suspension once i have the car running (remember this is mostly a street car)
I am planning to do a 200-300shot (or less if it will reach my goals).
Here is what i have planned to get, but dont yet have:
I was going to go through elliotportworks and purchase his Le3 heads + custom grind cam package.
Had plans for using edelbrock lt4 intake but i guess it seems it isnt too great of an intake.
Goals are to be running mostly on street w/ e85, i would like to be running low-mid 10's on motor and low 9's after nitrous, if not better on either of those.
This is only my second forum post so all/any help and constructive criticism will help.Also, no im not a v6 car driver trying to jump into a 9-10 second 1/4 car. I also have an 94 z28 basic bolt ons (58mm throttle body, cold air intake, SFC, strut bar, t-56, short throw, etc). Nothing too special especially compared to a 9 second car. But like i said, new to all of this just trying to make a dream come true. Thank you guys and im sorry if im missing anything important!
Specific questions:
What intake would you suggest for this?
Sound better with setup with nitrous only and deleting procharger from plans?
This would be okay with lt1 computer over a 24x then?
I know im forgetting things so feel free to ask and also add any useful tips or advice you have! Thanks again guys.
Last edited by camaro396lt1; 03-25-2014 at 11:56 PM.
03-19-2014, 05:30 AM
#2
A 94-95 OBD1 PCM is cheaper and apparently easier to tune than OBD2, you don't NEED a 24x setup if you stay away from boost. I know BIGCAT explained that he just couldn't get enough fuel in his procharged motor with OBD1 but he's in the 8s. A 200 shot is about as high as you want to go with a plate, after that its a more expensive custom direct port setup. A stock ported lt1 intake will do just fine, only time a single plane is worth it is over 7000 rpm, which the factory PCM cannot handle (will not go over 7000 period). LE3 heads and a custom grind cam for nitrous, quench around 0.035, and your bottom end and I think your good. If you are still aiming for 10s, you will need a new rear end. No getting around that, and a new driveshaft, need an s60 or a 9", so set aside $1500 for a used one or $2200-3000 for a new one. MysticTA has a 4l80 from a truck, they are very plentiful in 2500 or 3500 pickups.
03-19-2014, 01:42 PM
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A 94-95 OBD1 PCM is cheaper and apparently easier to tune than OBD2, you don't NEED a 24x setup if you stay away from boost. I know BIGCAT explained that he just couldn't get enough fuel in his procharged motor with OBD1 but he's in the 8s. A 200 shot is about as high as you want to go with a plate, after that its a more expensive custom direct port setup. A stock ported lt1 intake will do just fine, only time a single plane is worth it is over 7000 rpm, which the factory PCM cannot handle (will not go over 7000 period). LE3 heads and a custom grind cam for nitrous, quench around 0.035, and your bottom end and I think your good. If you are still aiming for 10s, you will need a new rear end. No getting around that, and a new driveshaft, need an s60 or a 9", so set aside $1500 for a used one or $2200-3000 for a new one. MysticTA has a 4l80 from a truck, they are very plentiful in 2500 or 3500 pickups.
03-19-2014, 05:00 PM
#5
I don't think he was running that big a shot, off the top of my head I want to say 175 but wouldn't swear to that. Goes by vtec on here if anyone wants to help search for his comments.
bowtienut runs 10.9 NA on a stock shortblock with ported GM heads and intake and I think 10.4 on a 75 shot but that is a 3800lbs Impala. The engine itself in that car is streetable but the chassis/drivetrain is set to kill.
The 4L60/E/700r4 has been in the 9s in a bunch of cars, takes a good builder. The 3.06 first gear can help a good launch.
bowtienut runs 10.9 NA on a stock shortblock with ported GM heads and intake and I think 10.4 on a 75 shot but that is a 3800lbs Impala. The engine itself in that car is streetable but the chassis/drivetrain is set to kill.
The 4L60/E/700r4 has been in the 9s in a bunch of cars, takes a good builder. The 3.06 first gear can help a good launch.
03-19-2014, 06:26 PM
#7
My car would actually do better on the nitrous if the gearing and TC were more street friendly rather than optimized for NA runs.
That 10.35 was spinning with a 1.45 60'. It 60's @ 1.43 NA.
Weight was 3850 lb.
Intake is stock, unported.
A halfway decent 396 with a 100 shot in an average weight F-body should be able to hit 9's.
That 10.35 was spinning with a 1.45 60'. It 60's @ 1.43 NA.
Weight was 3850 lb.
Intake is stock, unported.
A halfway decent 396 with a 100 shot in an average weight F-body should be able to hit 9's.
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03-20-2014, 05:08 PM
#8
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Also, he forwarded me a picture of the purchase of the rotating assembly which says "396 lt1 rotating assembly" and its from "VPE inc", and he also handwrote some details on the paper below it. He wrote "3.85 stroke". I know TRUE 396's are 3.875" with a 4.035" bore. But the assembly shouldnt have a random stroke of 3.85" right ...? Im sure you guys cant know much more than i do so i guess im asking from VPE inc, theyre not going to sell it as a "396 lt1 rotating assembly" without the 3.875 stroke right? So the guy probably wrote it down on the paper wrong?
03-20-2014, 08:31 PM
#9
Its impossible to know to any degree of certainty why some guy wrote what on a piece of paper...
I've never heard of a 3.850 stroke for a SBC, don't know who'd be grinding one. But I understand how not 'knowing' is and it IS a bitch.
Odds are, he brain-farted on the 3.875 stroke, which is the keystone of a 396 build, along with +.030 bore on the 350 SBC (LT1). But, if you NEED to know and I know I would, deliver the short block to a reputable machine shop and have them measure it. OR if you've the gear, measure it yourself.
Hope that helps.
Edit: I'd send your OP to Lloyd and let him tell you what ya need. There are few people who know that set up better.
I've never heard of a 3.850 stroke for a SBC, don't know who'd be grinding one. But I understand how not 'knowing' is and it IS a bitch.
Odds are, he brain-farted on the 3.875 stroke, which is the keystone of a 396 build, along with +.030 bore on the 350 SBC (LT1). But, if you NEED to know and I know I would, deliver the short block to a reputable machine shop and have them measure it. OR if you've the gear, measure it yourself.
Hope that helps.
Edit: I'd send your OP to Lloyd and let him tell you what ya need. There are few people who know that set up better.
Last edited by OVA1; 03-20-2014 at 08:37 PM.
03-20-2014, 10:04 PM
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Its impossible to know to any degree of certainty why some guy wrote what on a piece of paper...
I've never heard of a 3.850 stroke for a SBC, don't know who'd be grinding one. But I understand how not 'knowing' is and it IS a bitch.
Odds are, he brain-farted on the 3.875 stroke, which is the keystone of a 396 build, along with +.030 bore on the 350 SBC (LT1). But, if you NEED to know and I know I would, deliver the short block to a reputable machine shop and have them measure it. OR if you've the gear, measure it yourself.
Hope that helps.
Edit: I'd send your OP to Lloyd and let him tell you what ya need. There are few people who know that set up better.
I've never heard of a 3.850 stroke for a SBC, don't know who'd be grinding one. But I understand how not 'knowing' is and it IS a bitch.
Odds are, he brain-farted on the 3.875 stroke, which is the keystone of a 396 build, along with +.030 bore on the 350 SBC (LT1). But, if you NEED to know and I know I would, deliver the short block to a reputable machine shop and have them measure it. OR if you've the gear, measure it yourself.
Hope that helps.
Edit: I'd send your OP to Lloyd and let him tell you what ya need. There are few people who know that set up better.
03-21-2014, 05:11 AM
#11
I know you said you have a 4l60, not an E, it's still a 700R4 at heart, which built right with a light enough car can handle it, but you might want to just start shopping on Craigslist or the web for a 4l80 or 4l80e. Maybe pm mysterybird and see where he got his and how much. Keep us updated on your build with lots of pictures and keep firing away with questions, there's alot of good info on this board.
03-22-2014, 01:22 AM
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I know you said you have a 4l60, not an E, it's still a 700R4 at heart, which built right with a light enough car can handle it, but you might want to just start shopping on Craigslist or the web for a 4l80 or 4l80e. Maybe pm mysterybird and see where he got his and how much. Keep us updated on your build with lots of pictures and keep firing away with questions, there's alot of good info on this board.
Another question, i was reading about piston pressure and such... its full forged internals (obviously, being a 396) but with my rod length and setup, etc, would nitrous be okay with this setup? And if so, what spray should it be able to handle?
03-22-2014, 09:03 AM
#13
The ET goals are a little bit too optimistic, also nothing about a new rear end?
Why 8cc dished pistons?
You have said you are going to run nitrous, but haven't mentioned what kind of piston rings you are going to use. Plasma-Moly rings are a no-no with nitrous. Gotta get some Hellfire steel rings or equivalent. And have to be gapped appropriately. The require hone finish is MUCH different for Plasma-Moly vs Nitrous Steel rings.
Why no weight removal?
Weight removal is going to be the best way for you to go fast. You'll break less parts.
You will have to use the ARP2000 rod bolts as they have the smallest head to limit the amount of grinding you will have to do to clearance the rods on the block. Also you will be clearancing for the shoulder of the rods on the bottom of the cylinder., don't get carried away here or you'll find the water jacket.
What kind of heads are you looking at?
Why 8cc dished pistons?
You have said you are going to run nitrous, but haven't mentioned what kind of piston rings you are going to use. Plasma-Moly rings are a no-no with nitrous. Gotta get some Hellfire steel rings or equivalent. And have to be gapped appropriately. The require hone finish is MUCH different for Plasma-Moly vs Nitrous Steel rings.
Why no weight removal?
Weight removal is going to be the best way for you to go fast. You'll break less parts.
You will have to use the ARP2000 rod bolts as they have the smallest head to limit the amount of grinding you will have to do to clearance the rods on the block. Also you will be clearancing for the shoulder of the rods on the bottom of the cylinder., don't get carried away here or you'll find the water jacket.
What kind of heads are you looking at?
03-23-2014, 11:40 AM
#14
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I'm not familiar with the characteristics of E85 as we don't have it here in Maine but I know that I'm putting 4cc flattops in my 396 currently being built and with LE taking .020 off my 65cc (final about 63cc) chambered heads I'm still only about 11.8:1 which is lower than LE really wanted on 93 octane. I'm calculating 10.8:1 on a 9cc piston? Not much better than a stock CR at that point...LE will probably have something to say about that if I had to guess, and I know he will, I've got an email from last week where he did to me! E85 different in that aspect?
03-24-2014, 03:40 AM
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The ET goals are a little bit too optimistic, also nothing about a new rear end?
Why 8cc dished pistons?
You have said you are going to run nitrous, but haven't mentioned what kind of piston rings you are going to use. Plasma-Moly rings are a no-no with nitrous. Gotta get some Hellfire steel rings or equivalent. And have to be gapped appropriately. The require hone finish is MUCH different for Plasma-Moly vs Nitrous Steel rings.
Why no weight removal?
Weight removal is going to be the best way for you to go fast. You'll break less parts.
You will have to use the ARP2000 rod bolts as they have the smallest head to limit the amount of grinding you will have to do to clearance the rods on the block. Also you will be clearancing for the shoulder of the rods on the bottom of the cylinder., don't get carried away here or you'll find the water jacket.
What kind of heads are you looking at?
Why 8cc dished pistons?
You have said you are going to run nitrous, but haven't mentioned what kind of piston rings you are going to use. Plasma-Moly rings are a no-no with nitrous. Gotta get some Hellfire steel rings or equivalent. And have to be gapped appropriately. The require hone finish is MUCH different for Plasma-Moly vs Nitrous Steel rings.
Why no weight removal?
Weight removal is going to be the best way for you to go fast. You'll break less parts.
You will have to use the ARP2000 rod bolts as they have the smallest head to limit the amount of grinding you will have to do to clearance the rods on the block. Also you will be clearancing for the shoulder of the rods on the bottom of the cylinder., don't get carried away here or you'll find the water jacket.
What kind of heads are you looking at?
8cc dish piston is what i bought as the assembled shortblock (so yes its already balanced and clearanced). Although the guy i bought it from also wrote "3 850 stroke" and i checked as its disassembled, it IS 3.875 in fact like it should be... he might have wrote that wrong too. Already replacing all bearings and piston rings so i will make sure on that for piston rings.
And about weight reduction, i am NOT against weight removal, BUT like i said, this is going to be a street driven car a good amount, and so im not wanting to pull the seats really. I am luxury-oriented with it and once again, its not strictly a strip car. So tips on other weight reduction will be of great help as well.
Oh and i realized i typo'd my OP. Heads are through Lloyd elliot's le3 heads with custom grind cam. Also am having him port my intake as well.
Last edited by camaro396lt1; 03-24-2014 at 03:48 AM.
03-24-2014, 03:56 AM
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Also for anybody familiar with Lloyd Elliot, would the trickflow heads from him be a better option option? I know higher flowing isn't always necessarily better, but the trickflows do flow higher. If so, i will go that path instead.
I do have pics so far, but cant figure how to post through mobile but will get them shortly!
I do have pics so far, but cant figure how to post through mobile but will get them shortly!
03-24-2014, 07:19 AM
#17
I'll bet Lloyd's ported Trick flows would do very well. I have the 64cc chamber 195 Trick flows that I cleaned up the ports a little, certainly wouldn't consider them ported, and in two weeks I should finally get my 10 second time slip. I'm running a low RPM 5.7 rod 381 stroker.
03-25-2014, 12:11 AM
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I am looking into suspension more, and researched what it is going to take to hook with a car like mine. I found this guys setup which says:
"suspension: QA1 front shock (0)/springs, QA1 rear shocks (8), stock rear springs, Billet LCAs w/heim joints, Spohn TQ arm, sway bar, 12 bolt"
Can someone explain his shock/spring setups with the numbers and such. I know you can get the springs/shocks adjustable and im guessong thats the "(X)". But i dont understand how that works, and also whats the heom joint on the lower control arms?? Thanks! :/
"suspension: QA1 front shock (0)/springs, QA1 rear shocks (8), stock rear springs, Billet LCAs w/heim joints, Spohn TQ arm, sway bar, 12 bolt"
Can someone explain his shock/spring setups with the numbers and such. I know you can get the springs/shocks adjustable and im guessong thats the "(X)". But i dont understand how that works, and also whats the heom joint on the lower control arms?? Thanks! :/
03-25-2014, 12:31 AM
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I am looking into suspension more, and researched what it is going to take to hook with a car like mine. I found this guys setup which says:
"suspension: QA1 front shock (0)/springs, QA1 rear shocks (8), stock rear springs, Billet LCAs w/heim joints, Spohn TQ arm, sway bar, 12 bolt"
Can someone explain his shock/spring setups with the numbers and such. I know you can get the springs/shocks adjustable and im guessong thats the "(X)". But i dont understand how that works, and also whats the heom joint on the lower control arms?? Thanks! :/
"suspension: QA1 front shock (0)/springs, QA1 rear shocks (8), stock rear springs, Billet LCAs w/heim joints, Spohn TQ arm, sway bar, 12 bolt"
Can someone explain his shock/spring setups with the numbers and such. I know you can get the springs/shocks adjustable and im guessong thats the "(X)". But i dont understand how that works, and also whats the heom joint on the lower control arms?? Thanks! :/
03-26-2014, 12:02 AM
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The ET goals are a little bit too optimistic, also nothing about a new rear end?
Why 8cc dished pistons?
You have said you are going to run nitrous, but haven't mentioned what kind of piston rings you are going to use. Plasma-Moly rings are a no-no with nitrous. Gotta get some Hellfire steel rings or equivalent. And have to be gapped appropriately. The require hone finish is MUCH different for Plasma-Moly vs Nitrous Steel rings.
Why no weight removal?
Weight removal is going to be the best way for you to go fast. You'll break less parts.
You will have to use the ARP2000 rod bolts as they have the smallest head to limit the amount of grinding you will have to do to clearance the rods on the block. Also you will be clearancing for the shoulder of the rods on the bottom of the cylinder., don't get carried away here or you'll find the water jacket.
What kind of heads are you looking at?
Why 8cc dished pistons?
You have said you are going to run nitrous, but haven't mentioned what kind of piston rings you are going to use. Plasma-Moly rings are a no-no with nitrous. Gotta get some Hellfire steel rings or equivalent. And have to be gapped appropriately. The require hone finish is MUCH different for Plasma-Moly vs Nitrous Steel rings.
Why no weight removal?
Weight removal is going to be the best way for you to go fast. You'll break less parts.
You will have to use the ARP2000 rod bolts as they have the smallest head to limit the amount of grinding you will have to do to clearance the rods on the block. Also you will be clearancing for the shoulder of the rods on the bottom of the cylinder., don't get carried away here or you'll find the water jacket.
What kind of heads are you looking at?
I heard moly rings are whats wanted on nitrous?
The block is already clearanced.
Some things i found out:
It isnt ARP2000's like he said but rather ARP8740's. Ive read the 8740's are actually same length as the 2000's though? But like i said its already clearanced anyways when i bought the shortblock.
Also, it wasn't, in fact, 3.85" stroke like he thought. It is 3.875"