kris72079

iTrader: (7)

I have done the ls1 air box and lid conversion as well as running a electric water pump. I am looking to eliminate any issues before they arise and set up a pusher fan setup before its time to put my new engine in. I have tried to mod my stock lt1 dual fans for use in front and haven't been able to set them up in a config that works, they are just too thick.

Who is successfully running a pusher setup, and what are you running? This will be a street driven 396, on a 160* tstat with no a/c. What cfms will keep this thing cool at idle?

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

I am running two of these. In the heat of summer they are both going full blast to keep my car at 185* in traffic. They will do it though.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16925/overview/

kris72079

iTrader: (7)

you are running two as pushers in front of the radiator?

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

Yes I am.

kris72079

iTrader: (7)

would it be possible to get a few pics of your setup? The stock fans measure 3.25" deep and these are advertised at about the same. I would love to see how you have them mounted. Thanks in advance!

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

My setup is very different from yours so I don't know how helpful pics would be. I am running a Griffin radiator stood up, and no wiper fluid reservoir. I can tell you that the overall package is a lot smaller than the stock fans/shroud. The mounting system is those plastic locking strips that push through the radiator so mounting position on the radiator is very flexible. You don't need a shroud for pushers.

kris72079

iTrader: (7)

the biggest problem for me right now is getting a fan that won't interfere with the core support and ls air box above, washer fluid bottle in front and radiator mount below. I have the washer bottle out now and the fans still touch the core support on the top before the radiator is back in the upper mount. What is the depth of those fans at the "cage" without the motors? I'd like to run two 10"s but can't find any that move any cfm at a decent price.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

You understand that the electric pump and pusher fans are both steps BACKWARDS for cooling right?

kris72079

iTrader: (7)

with running a EWP and a ls box/lid conversion the the pusher fans aren't too much up for debate I don't think. Maybe I'm wrong, my engine isn't in, maybe there is enough room for a puller(s) with shroud but it certainly doesn't look that way. An EWP can't be too bad of a step backwards, there's certainly a lot of them being run successfully out there.

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

Depending on which EWP you have.. It can actually fit. The fan shroud needs trimmed to go back far enough. You also need to do considerable cutting to the core support. The CSR water pump is the easiest at just 2.5" deep. The Meziere standard is 3" deep, and the HV Mezeire will not fit at 3.5" deep. IF you do get it all to fit, it will be VERY tight.

The pusher fans I posted really do a good job. You will find many turbo builds using those fans along with a stood up radiator. I dont think you will have any issue fitting them along with the LS1 air lid.

Dont mind downer Dwayne.. He likes to let everyone know how much better a GM stock bottom end, stock timing chain, stock oil pump, stock water pump(apparently) with AI top end is.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

The electric pumps free up power by moving LESS water, they are usually adequate often result in slightly elevated cruise temps.

I mention it because you are stressing over cooling while adding a bunch of things to hurt it.

PA94Z please tell me what part of the comment I am wrong about rather than just spewing bullshit.

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

I'm spewing bullshit? The thread title states "Who is running pusher fans".. Are you? No. You come in to educate us all on how much better the GM stock stuff is and how it is such a step backwards.

In my opinion - and unlike you Dwayne I form my opinions based on experience, the cooling system on the LT1 is overkill. My motor stays cool with 2 pusher fans, a standard Meziere pump, and a 18" section of the air dam taken out of the center of it where my chrs1313 sits. The chrs1313 sits about an inch off the back of my rad to - so airflow isn't optimal.

kris72079

iTrader: (7)

I have the HV Meziere so that just almost solidifies the assumption that it will not fit... As you stated, MANY of the big FI guys are running pushers with success, and those guys are generating way more heat than my NA setup.

kris72079

iTrader: (7)

Now I must ask the specifics on how moving LESS water through the coolant passages of the engine frees up power in the engine? It would be my understanding that any power freed up would be a result of taking the scavenge load off the rotating parts of the engine, almost to liken it to the ability of a manual trans to put down better hp/tq #s than an auto with the same prime mover in front of it....dess drag/load. THAT BEING SAID, let me now express that my first concern for adopting a EWP was NOT for the HP gain potential, it was to reduce the risk of killing an opti with the potential seal leak, that was before the 24x conversion. Second for me was the appearance, I like the look of them over a standard water pump (which is still better than a belt driven setup IMO). Third was the potential gain. Back to the top, the Meziere HD flows 55gpm, thats pretty damn good.

sweetbmxrider

iTrader: (13)

I thought the wise old internet said electric pumps flow more at cruising rpms while the stocker outflowed at higher rpms? Wait, do you cruise at the rev limiter like a bad ***?

Spartan7

iTrader: (7)

I'm running a Mezeire HD and stock fan setup, stock rad location, with a lid. I had to trim the shroud quite a bit to clear, the EWP body nearly touches one of the fan blades, but clears. However, mine is a special case with the lid, because the core support is LS1 style, but I imagine you should be able to trim it up and get it all to fit with the stock fans.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

I have experience with a 30gpm pump raising cruise temps even in 40degree weather.

The electric pumps are freeflow rated, the stock pump as measured and published in SAE data moves 66gpm.

The power is freed up by moving less water because the alternator has to provide the power to turn the electric pump so the power to turn the pump is NOT removed from the engine as so many stupid people think just shifted from the timing set to the serpentine belt/alternator. Since more power makes it to the ground and the engine is still turning the pump via the alternator and pump motor then very basic physics says less work is being done even without the FACT we have documentation that the electrics are freeflow rated at less than the stocker is measured to flow in the system restriction.

I am sure there is some element of power not being needed to accelerate the water as the mechanical pump accelerates but the same SAE document that states the stocker moves 66gpm says it takes 11hp to do that. Do you think the little electric pump motor is 11hp, do you think the alternator can put out 11hp? Maybe the impeller is a bit better too but a better impeller isn't going to make that little DC motor move more water than the stocker taking 11hp.

I know I didn't tell the OP what he wanted to hear but UNDERSTANDING things is better than being handed answers. He is worried about cooling and making downgrades, the system should still be adequate but he should still understand he has compromised capacity.

kris72079

iTrader: (7)

Hmmmm....interesting. I'll have to give it a shot then.

I don't typically ask questions with the intent on only accepting the answers I want to hear, if that were my desired result I wouldn't ask the opinions of others, so thank you for giving me information outside of what I "wanted to hear". Everyone has to be wrong to learn, otherwise your a know-it-all *******. ALSO, in my short time on here I've realized that more often than not the best information (and entertainment) comes out when the obscenities start flying. A sure way to get people to share their knowledge is when they are trying to prove others wrong!

Also, the EWP doesn't have to be 11hp to put out the same or more volume, it can do it as a matter of increased efficiency, something that DC motors do very well. Couple that with quality low drag bearings, and advancements in impeller design and flow can increase and the required energy can decrease. The max draw on the alternator occurs at start up, and because it is a fixed output device the dray quickly diminishes to a negligible figure I'm sure. I'd bet the e-fans are more a burden on the system than the EWP. Not saying you're wrong by any means, just throwing that out there.

Anyone else? Ideas?

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

You must have used a CSR because even the standard Meziere is rated at 43 GPM. Your logic is flawed though.. the Meziere draws just 8 amps. That is not because it moves less water.. it is a more efficient way of doing the same job. Just 8 amps to turn the electric water pump... Lets do some conversions.
8 amps = 112 watts
112 watts = .15 horsepower
You could easily gain that power back by turning off the radio....

Anyway.. there are plenty of reasons to use a electric pump. Aesthetics, serviceability, simplicity. The key reason for me to switch the the electric pump was to be able to use a standard SBC roller timing set. The silly cam driven design of the LT1 pump was just another over engineered aspect of the motor.

Kris one thing you didn't mention is the hood you are using. While the stock fans may work if you have adequate hood clearance, they will not fit comfortably with a stock Camaro hood unless you use the smallest EWP available - the CSR. I was able to fit it all under a stock hood with the standard Meziere - the fan blades were to close for comfort to the pump though. This was when I was using the stock radiator.

Stock camaro hood, LS1 lid, EWP - http://joelrdevriendt.com/?p=46

Spartan7

iTrader: (7)

Um, what? You're describing this like there will be more mechanical parasitic loss from the alternator because it must move a bit more current. The alternator does not work like that, the only mechanical loss from an alternator is from the bearings and brushes on the armature. The internal voltage regulator would simply adjust for the higher demand. There are no other moving parts that could cause a loss like you describe, all the alternator does is produce a magnetic field. The stock massively over-adequate LT1 alternator should have no problem adjusting for an EWP.