LT1Hawkeye

Hey all!

First time poster here but long time lurker. I have been fighting my 95' Formula Firebird for about a year now and I am just about ready to pull what little hair I have left out--so I am hoping someone can help me out! Here's what I have;

1995 Formula Firebird w/ 220k and T6 manual. Initial problem was that the car would sometimes not start. No power to anything---no lights, no crank, nothing. It was very infrequent but it started happening more often until eventually it wouldn't start at all. Whenever it did happen, I just let it sit for a while.

From what I have read it sounded like the VATS system, so instead of messing around with any complicated fix--I just measured the resistance of my key and soldered a matching resistor to bypass. Now I have a new / more complicated problem (it didn't fix the initial problem from what I can tell).

Now I can turn the key onto accessory power to get lights / radio--whatever. But the moment I turn the key to start the car, everything dies. I am at the end of my rope with this thing now. The engine runs beautifully even after 220k miles, IF I can get the freaking thing started!

Any help / ideas / things I can test would be very appreciated. If this isn't the correct forum please let me know and I will move / delete it!

shbox

Sounds like a bad battery or cable connections.

LT1Hawkeye

I have replaced both of those, as well as the ignition relay, that was my first thought too. Thanks!

WHTLTN2

have you tried the starter, alternator, or even the computer but i highly doubt it's the computer, just trying to think of some stuff lol

LT1Hawkeye

Alternator yes, but starter not yet. When it does (or used to) crank, it would start after MAYBE 2-3 cranks, it seems like a very strong starter (it was replaced ~2 years ago). Thanks!

97lt1camaro

iTrader: (3)

Is the starter clunking or clicking when it does this . Sounds like a bad solenoid on the starter

hrcslam

Before you try and start what does your volt-meter read? If it's more than the redzone....

I'm going with a bad battery connection. Remove cables again, clean all terminals, contacts, and mounts thoroughly with sand paper and steel brushes. Reconnect contacts and terminals with electro contact grease (white lithium). Re-Charge battery if necessary. Try to start.

LT1Hawkeye

I've heard this a few times today. Since its a side post battery maybe Ill just go about and replace the fasteners from the cable to the battery (I guess they'd be bolts?). That way I can verify for sure that this thing is getting a good battery connection. Thanks!

kris72079

iTrader: (7)

Check the ground for the battery, I believe its on the block. It sounds like when hit with a load, the starter being the biggest one there is, its losing its ground. Resistance check the ground cable to ensure its good inside the insulation, wiggle the cable when doing the resistance check. A cable that size and that short of length should have almost no resistance or fluctuation.

LT1Hawkeye

Nope--no clicking. It doesn't even get to the point where the starter engages before I lose power. Now--in the past when it DID start it didn't have any clicking at all, very strong and fast start. Thanks!

LT1Hawkeye

Is this a ground from the block to the frame or from the block to the body? If this is the case--do you recall what side of the engine this would be on? I only hope its something so simple...Thanks!

shbox

http://shbox.com/1/battery_cable_ground.jpg

kris72079

iTrader: (7)

^this^ just follow the negative cable from the battery to the termination. The above pic shows on the engine mount but I think mine was on a separate spot on the block, but mine has been in and out a few times! Again, don't forget to res check the cable while manipulating it, corrosion happens inside the insulation as well as on exposed wire.

JOHNNYMO

iTrader: (1)

Might be the ignition switch an the steering column...not the key cylinder, the ignition switch thats actuated by the rod when the key cylinder is turned.

3 pedal SS

iTrader: (1)

^^^ This^^^

shbox

If his "no power to anything" (like headlights) statement is true, then it is not the ignition switch. Perhaps some clarification by the OP is needed.

LT1Hawkeye

Yep--when I say no power I mean to everything. If the lights are on they will shut off. I am getting back into town tomorrow and it sounds like I am going to spend some time tracing / cleaning off some grounds. Thanks!

great421

iTrader: (1)

(See your GM F-Body Service Manual Pages 8A-133-0 thru 8A-133-18)

Your VATS system impacts a number of different BCM related electrical systems; it sounds like you need to go thru the trouble trees.

LT1Hawkeye

From what I read, you can bypass the VATS system by using a regular-cut key and measuring the resistance of the key w/ a chip in it. Then splice in a resistor in that same range. Does this makes sense? Thanks!

shbox

Yeah, you can read all about the VATS on my website, but that is not your problem.