SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Pretty sure you suggested LE product be purchased and tested?
I see. So speed demon's results are null and void even though they were not as good from the point they were installed to the point the next combination went on the car as well as the new combo allegedly being more aggressive? Also, because the cam may not have been degreed correctly? Is this what you're saying?

As far as the 300 dollar comment is concerned, technically no brand was mentioned, but even if it is a reference to LE it is widely known and accepted even from LE customers that those setups are budget setups compared. Do you think complaining about opinions made is going to help your cause?

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

Nope I clearly suggested LE heads. What I did not suggest is an entirely different valve train. How does changing the entire valve train give a clear picture on what the heads themselves are worth? Most people don't degree the cam at all. That is just one of many reasons why what you read on the internet isn't always 100% accurate, and when you base your opinion on things your read on tech... you may end up like 96

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Actually, even as bitter has he can be, he shares good tech information. As far as degreeing a cam is concerned, I don't know of a whole lot of LT1 owners who venture down this path who run the stock ignition and EFI. Reason being is because mechanically it defeats the purpose when you run a stock opti and because of EFI tuning and being able to adjust accordingly. Most all LT1 packages that have been sold over the years state to install the cam straight up for this very purpose. Good things were happening with this long before you became a member and LE was a LT1 rockstar. It really reads like you are trying to split hairs here.
And again, are you dismissing speed demon's results because of everything you mentioned about cam degree and aggressive setup and oil/lower octane?

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

What? I'm not sure you have any idea what you're talking about after that post. You can't adjust intake and exhaust opening/closing events with the pcm. That is the whole point of degree in the cam, and is how you verify it is where it's supposed to be. Obviously you're one of the many who believe when you put the cam in straight up that's actually where it is Not so much the case.... my cam from Comp was advanced 3 degrees when installed straight up, and the exhaust lobe was ground 3 degrees retarded. It was a mess... probably shouldn't have worried about it though since it has a opti From what I hear AI's cams are ground to pretty close tolerances.. probably much like my Mike Jones Cam that was perfect and needed no adjustments.

If Speed Demon changed more than heads and intake it should be dismissed in this head porting discussion. Additionally..... nowhere did I say more aggressive. Stop pulling words out of thin air.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

If you are simply verifying if the cam is where it is supposed to be then that's fantastic. I'd only ever do this if, well, never. On that note, it reads like you are on to something that no one else has ever figured out with these cars. With that I say, good luck to you and your project. Perhaps you will tap into ground breaking results that have yet to be discovered in the 20 plus years people have been modding these engines.
I was going off your valve timing event stuff you mentioned. My mistake. Even if you are just talking about swapping cylinder heads that seems a little ridiculous given a cam and heads are supposed to accommodate each other with a well thought out top end, but I digress...

joelster

Huh? Degreeing a camshaft has NOTHING to do with ignition timing, lol. Wow.

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

Its nothing new to verify the cam you bought is what it's supposed to be with a degree wheel. Mistakes happen, just like my first cam from Comp. I guarantee anyone with a fast setup regardless of brand used a degree wheel during assembly. Lots of people dont... so the test pool you guys refer to get tainted.

I saw one guy claiming he had over 10:1 dynamic compression on pump gas touting the LT1s ability to handle compression. People were lapping that **** up, I asked him where he was getting his intake valve closing number and he was using the cam card @.050 number He never degree in the cam.. and you will never find that out without doing that.

It was your mistake to assume tha5 my comment on lobe characteristics meant aggressive. Some lobes simply make more power.. better design, and newer technology made it possible. You don't have to beat up the valve train to make more power.

Swapping similar cylinder heads to test your beliefs is a lot less ridiculous than spouting your opinion on the internet calling it fact. The variables you want to introduce have a great effect on the performance your motor will have.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

I think instead of swapping heads you should suggest a flow bench war. That would make more sense. Most people don't check a cam? No one does. At least no one who buys a heads/cam package from a well known shop.

bowtienut

iTrader: (1)

In a similar discussion on the Impala forum, I posted this:
"If you know exactly what you want and don't require a lot of dialogue to help you make up your mind, I'd go with AI. Their quality control is better, reducing risk that you'll have to pull a head for something like a water jacket leak or an ill-machined spring pocket that causes a valvetrain issue. To me, that was well worth the slightly higher up-front price.
I agree with the "you'll never feel the power difference" comments. So many other variables in most people's builds completely overshadow any performance difference.
I dealt with Lloyd in the past on other people's setups, and totally agree that he is the best person to work with when you need help deciding what you really want."

For our "outdated" LT1 platform, we really are fortunate to have two very good options from two very knowledgeable sources for great top end setups. And, yes, I know I'm excluding all of the other viable options that exist for those that are willing to spend a little more and hoe their own row in an ATTEMPT to gain a performance edge over the rest of the crowd. For the buyers that truly understand the subject material, those attempts can pan out; most don't.

Between LE and AI, I have no issue with the cost difference. It's justified. And the reputable LT1 builders I know, the ones who do more than a couple per year, agree. Time is money; they don't want to deal with returns, waiting for problems to get sorted out, and extra time and parts setting up valvetrains.
If AI went out of business or jacked their prices through the roof, I'd have no qualms about using LE stuff. I don't run an engine building business and could afford the time to check the details. If any issue DID come up, Lloyd has demonstrated that he WILL make it right.

HellTeeOne

As far as AI's cams, the specs you see on their website are "advertised" specs. When I got mine it had a cam card with the exact "actual" specs of that individual camshaft, which differed ever so slightly from the "advertised" specs. They do this to ensure you know exactly what you have, and can install accordingly. I wouldn't worry about one being off a degree or so, or a fraction thereof, from "advertised" specs, as long as I knew it was. I personally think people get a little too worked up about camshaft specs in the never ending quest for a nonexistent free lunch, anyway.

PA94Z

iTrader: (1)

Flow bench is just more data, and not the whole story with heads. Not sure if you are being sarcastic in that comment. I disagree noone checks a cam That's pure ignorance. Even if you were completely satisfied the company you purchased from would be precise in QC, the timing set could be off a 1, 2, or a few degrees. Why would anyone spend thousands of dollars on a engine, only to half *** assembly not doting their I's and crossing their T's? Probably because they blindly followed someone who said they didn't need to.

I agree 100%.. this is a great example on how to explain to someone the advantages of one company over another without bashing

I think AI has very good quality control, and it's a pretty safe bet to install their cam straight up, and that's where it is. Not so much with lunati, comp cams and the like. It needs to be checked, or it could be running quite a bit off. It's not difficult to do, I'm not sure why you wouldn't do it either way.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

You definitely have an advantage over those who were successful before you. As far as bashing, there are those who have their opinions. There are reasons for those opinions. Some of them based from years of what has been displayed on these forums as well as experience. I'd suggest growing a thicker skin and avoid whining at an attempt to change things.

BIGsmokey10

iTrader: (3)

Hey man my car has le1 s not le2s! Lol...

I think guys get to caught up in focusing on how big the heads or cam Is in there car when they should be focusing on the chassis and converter and drive train. There's tons of et to be had in a converter. .

Once I get my issues sorted out I don't see why my car won't go a 10.4 na since it's already running 6.70s letting out early , short shifting it at 5800 and still needs the handicapped person tuning it (myself) to get it dialed in... but we will see, might drop a turd down the back half

I spent a lot of time and money in the chassis and my combo is crap compared to most. Le1 heads , .555 lift low 230 cam comp cam, stock unported intake, stock ecu , hydro roller.

I also run a n20 converter with only a 3.89 gear.

I will say lloyd is much cooler because he buys beer and pizza for everyone at the shootout

Mystery Bird

iTrader: (7)

I say go for it, port your own heads. I've run nothing but home ported heads myself and I never touched a set before in my life. My home ported stockers in a 3700lb car netted me a best of 11.6, and now my out of the box cleaned up large chamber TFS heads so far a best of 10.87 @ 123 mph. I did so much research though my eyes bled, and too be honest I had them off three times, taking a bit more off in key areas each time. Don't fall for the larger the intake runner size the better either. My TFS runners are only 200 and when I had my stockers I only had 190. There really is a LOT to learn, so as mentioned many many times in previous posts don't just hog away. You'll need at least, a die grinder, multiple bits, bore gauge, a burette, and steady patient hands. After that send them to the machine shop for shave.