P.o.s. 4l60e
07-07-2015, 02:00 PM
#21
Problem is that a T56 will add complexity and cost to his repair over even some of the highest priced 4L60e options. Last I checked (which admittedly was a while ago) a full T56 swap is around $1200 and then you're still stuck with replacing the clutch unless you want to run whatever the used trans came with ($300-$1000), improper rear gearing ($300-400), uncalibrated speedo which means you need a tune ($200-$500), and all the little odds ends (assume atleast another couple hundred bucks because nothing ever goes as smooth as it does in your head). When you add it all together its over $2000 easily if you want to do it right and still that's assuming he does all the work.
These days, with the current price of 4th gens, unless you're emotionally attached to your vehicle or too heavily invested in it you're better off selling it and buying a car that came with the equipment you want.
These days, with the current price of 4th gens, unless you're emotionally attached to your vehicle or too heavily invested in it you're better off selling it and buying a car that came with the equipment you want.
Maybe so, but it will last 150-200K+ without a rebuild while handling 450TQ in stock form, how many stock rebuilt auto's will do that?....add up a 2 or 3 auto trans rebuilds and it adds up just as quickly. Decent torque converters cost more than decent clutches. Just depends on how long you plan on keeping in it and what you plan to do with it.
07-07-2015, 03:35 PM
#22
Maybe so, but it will last 150-200K+ without a rebuild while handling 450TQ in stock form, how many stock rebuilt auto's will do that?....add up a 2 or 3 auto trans rebuilds and it adds up just as quickly. Decent torque converters cost more than decent clutches. Just depends on how long you plan on keeping in it and what you plan to do with it.
07-07-2015, 03:38 PM
#23
TECH Addict
P.o.s. 4l60e Problem is that a T56 will add complexity and cost to his repair over even some of the highest priced 4L60e options. Last I checked (which admittedly was a while ago) a full T56 swap is around $1200 and then you're still stuck with replacing the clutch unless you want to run whatever the used trans came with ($300-$1000), improper rear gearing ($300-400), uncalibrated speedo which means you need a tune ($200-$500), and all the little odds ends (assume atleast another couple hundred bucks because nothing ever goes as smooth as it does in your head). When you add it all together its over $2000 easily if you want to do it right and still that's assuming he does all the work.
These days, with the current price of 4th gens, unless you're emotionally attached to your vehicle or too heavily invested in it you're better off selling it and buying a car that came with the equipment you want.
These days, with the current price of 4th gens, unless you're emotionally attached to your vehicle or too heavily invested in it you're better off selling it and buying a car that came with the equipment you want.
07-08-2015, 09:12 AM
#25
TECH Fanatic
Like said, find a reuptable shop nearby that can handle the rebuild. For what you're doing, it will be fine. FLT builds very good 60Es though if you outsourced. Absolutely NEVER have Monster build you a trans, absolute garbage.
07-08-2015, 04:24 PM
#26
A decent rule of thumb (not 100% always the case of course) is if it has a gimmicky name, the shop is usually turning out junk. IE - Monster, Godfather, Mad Dog, etc. Most of the best shops tend to follow the commonality of either 2-3 letters or simply a person's name for the business's name.
07-08-2015, 08:40 PM
#27
TECH Resident
The stock 4L60E in my Express van died at 38K. The 4L65E spec rebuild died at 78K. I swapped a 110K 4L80E untouched except a Transgo HD2 and a Deep pan and it shifts 10x better than the 60E or 65E ever did.
07-08-2015, 08:44 PM
#28
TECH Resident
Maybe so, but it will last 150-200K+ without a rebuild while handling 450TQ in stock form, how many stock rebuilt auto's will do that?....add up a 2 or 3 auto trans rebuilds and it adds up just as quickly. Decent torque converters cost more than decent clutches. Just depends on how long you plan on keeping in it and what you plan to do with it.
07-09-2015, 08:15 AM
#29
80E or 85E will do that all day long especially with a shift kit. Stock 80E with a shift kit has a tendency to break the tires loose on a 1-2 shift at 45 mph in my Express. The pan was clean when it was shipped to me with 110K on it and now that it has 135K on it, it is still spotless inside. The magnet was slightly dirty but for 2 years of towing and abuse it was not bad at all.
07-10-2015, 07:39 PM
#30
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
like i said i would love to be able to do a t-56 swap. and if i could get all the stuff for 1200 id do it! but i cannot find a trans for under 2000, JUST FOR THE TRANS so thats out of the question. even though id love to do it but just cant right now. whats needed for a 4l80e swap? is it simple?
07-10-2015, 07:53 PM
#31
like i said i would love to be able to do a t-56 swap. and if i could get all the stuff for 1200 id do it! but i cannot find a trans for under 2000, JUST FOR THE TRANS so thats out of the question. even though id love to do it but just cant right now. whats needed for a 4l80e swap? is it simple?
07-10-2015, 08:04 PM
#32
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
yeah exactly theres just too much other expenses. hawksthirdgen.com sells a conversion kit, everything is used and they dont say how many miles is on the tranny but it comes complete for 2500 minus shipping. just too much for me
07-12-2015, 04:59 AM
#33
TECH Enthusiast
A 4l80 swap will cost you a driveshaft, crossmember/torque arm setup, and a tune. Not exactly practical with your needs. Pick up the used trans, install it right away to avoid any warranty issues or claims, and send yours out to a known builder that has been around a long while. I ran a trans shop for quite some time. Even the best builders I ever had working for me still didn't know how to build a 4l60 better than stock. 150k in a normal truck? No problem. Anything with over 400 hp? I would turn them away all day. Find a performance builder that knows their **** and offers a true warranty that shows they care about your vehicle, not just to make a quick buck. Building a great business takes long relationships and repeat business, something that seems lost in today's service industry. Just my .02.
FWIW the previous owner of my car went through four transmissions with 3 different shops. I bought the car without 3rd or 4th gear. I tossed in a T56 and never looked back. 95s tend to be a special kind of stupid from what I have seen.
FWIW the previous owner of my car went through four transmissions with 3 different shops. I bought the car without 3rd or 4th gear. I tossed in a T56 and never looked back. 95s tend to be a special kind of stupid from what I have seen.
07-16-2015, 09:45 AM
#34
If I were you, I'd go to Phoenix up in Weatherford, www.phoenixtrans.com
They have a good reputation, and one of our 4200 lb drag racers has run their 4L60E successfully behind a strong stroker for many years.
They have a good reputation, and one of our 4200 lb drag racers has run their 4L60E successfully behind a strong stroker for many years.
07-17-2015, 05:06 AM
#35
TECH Addict
P.o.s. 4l60e If I were you, I'd go to Phoenix up in Weatherford, www.phoenixtrans.com
They have a good reputation, and one of our 4200 lb drag racers has run their 4L60E successfully behind a strong stroker for many years.
They have a good reputation, and one of our 4200 lb drag racers has run their 4L60E successfully behind a strong stroker for many years.
A 4L80E is a better transmission for sure and if you can swing it, do. But if not, rebuild the stock 4L60E and enjoy.
I do love my T56 though (in the Camaro).
07-17-2015, 05:46 AM
#36
LOTS of very bad builders out there who just dump out the worn parts and pour in new, that doesn't work. Lots of very halfassed tuners out there too that can hurt the tranny as well.
Not a bad tranny, just one that requires patience and detail to do right.
Not a bad tranny, just one that requires patience and detail to do right.
07-17-2015, 07:42 AM
#37
My car did that a couple of times, when it was new, and I was shocked. After that, I was very careful with the throttle application, so that wouldn't happen. Later on, I had the PCM re-calibrated, which eliminated this issue. Basically, it's a computer program mistake. Yes, the TC should unlock, effectively dropping you one gear, but not downshifting the transmission, effectively dropping you two gears....
07-18-2015, 04:12 PM
#38
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I built the 4L60E in My 95 S10 solid axle 4x4 with a 355 LT1 & never touched one before!!! An ATSG manual along with Youtube videos got Me threw it plus the TransGo HD2 kit & other Upgrades I put in it were way better than handin someone 3grand for a Level 3 4L60E 
l did everything but Billet shafts & 5 pinion planets... Before anyone flames on the 5 pinion planets Ive seen those Shatter since theyre powdered metal & the 4 pinion pcs are Forged... The Special tools will set Ya back almost as much as the build!!! IF your pretty close I could prolly bring mine & help walk ya threw it Otherwise If You really have to go Used trans I would snag one out of a 95 Caddy with the Tow Pkg!!! Thats the best factory 60E GM put out!!! Plus they have a decent external cooler you can add on...
I posted a link to My 500 Dollar Jewel & its got a lot of the pics of the 4L60E 4x4 trans build I did Attention to Detail is the Biggest part of an auto trans build!!!
l did everything but Billet shafts & 5 pinion planets... Before anyone flames on the 5 pinion planets Ive seen those Shatter since theyre powdered metal & the 4 pinion pcs are Forged... The Special tools will set Ya back almost as much as the build!!! IF your pretty close I could prolly bring mine & help walk ya threw it Otherwise If You really have to go Used trans I would snag one out of a 95 Caddy with the Tow Pkg!!! Thats the best factory 60E GM put out!!! Plus they have a decent external cooler you can add on... I posted a link to My 500 Dollar Jewel & its got a lot of the pics of the 4L60E 4x4 trans build I did Attention to Detail is the Biggest part of an auto trans build!!!
07-19-2015, 09:15 AM
#39
For a racing app 4L60s suck because they can't take RPMs, not because they are weak. IE, you may be better off with a 500hp blower car that shifts at 5500 then a 400hp cammed car that shifts at 6500.
They are pretty strong as far as HP and TQ go. If your combo will shift under ~6300-6500 then I would keep the 4L60e, if it will be a high rpm build that is using 6700+ rpm then I would look elsewhere and do it right the first time.
Of course people will mention someone who makes crazy power or turns tons of RPM on a stock or barely built trans, but that is an exception and not the norm. I don't preach the strength of the GM 10bolt even though personally my bone stock one has done more 1.5x 60's then I can remember, because I know of all the people that have broken them with stock cars pulling slow 2.0 60s.
They are pretty strong as far as HP and TQ go. If your combo will shift under ~6300-6500 then I would keep the 4L60e, if it will be a high rpm build that is using 6700+ rpm then I would look elsewhere and do it right the first time.
Of course people will mention someone who makes crazy power or turns tons of RPM on a stock or barely built trans, but that is an exception and not the norm. I don't preach the strength of the GM 10bolt even though personally my bone stock one has done more 1.5x 60's then I can remember, because I know of all the people that have broken them with stock cars pulling slow 2.0 60s.
07-19-2015, 09:54 PM
#40
There are some tweaks to help the 60 handle rpm better, I know when mine was built I had to wait an extra week for a backordered spring I think it was that stablilizes pressure over 6100rpm.
and yes there are folks pretty successfully running it over 7000rpm, but most probably do some sort of regular refresh work, maybe annually.
and yes there are folks pretty successfully running it over 7000rpm, but most probably do some sort of regular refresh work, maybe annually.