TheUrbz

Before even joinin the site ive done some due diligence here in researching what I know to even research. ive asked around at work to all the car guys I know and they've told me what ive been reluctant to do and that is to "ask someone". more specifically they told me to call (insert performance parts manufacturer and/or shop). I don't think im going to do that and waste their time to humor me cause im honestly 2-3 years away from doing what I want and in that length of time I want to have everything I need down pat, so when the time comes I don't have to waste anymore on "what would be a good one of (random part)". ive seen plenty of "I want this out of my car, what do?" posts here and im going to try to not make another one of those. but other than calling people I figured this cant hurt to start here. so ill start with what plenty of people ask first before helping


Weapon: 1997 Formula
Budget: TBD-will be met to fit need
Mission Objective: make it into a ballsy, better handling daily driver.
FI will not happen. Drag racing is not a goal. Stroking it as I have learned is not worth the money vs. power gained and for the purpose I want it for.


I would like to see 400+ though if the gods allow it. I have plenty of parts in mind and websites saved for the obvious items: heads, cam, 58mm TB, no intake needed cause the LT1 is just fine, opti- well, the opti is gonna take some more research cause theres way too many back and for on how these are good, but not as of late, delco is best but put this cap and rotor on etc etc.


The reason being is this car was our ride in the Corps. it has survived long days of hooning from Jacksonhell to Wilmington and back and a few deployments sitting stagnate in a garage or two. back in those days it was quick still with what was on the road at the time. now as the years pass cars are getting faster and id like to upgrade this rugged A-10 of the I-10 to be alittle more than an old threat on the highway. that's why im not interested in making it a dragster. I don't stop light race or try to be quick off a line, I like my speed from 60-120 more than 0-60.


Hence my post. as I research I run into posts about FI'ing engines, or being at a certain time on the track, that or guys want the power of an 2017 Camaro out of their currently own engine but keep it DD. im having trouble finding the correct course and feel that im not on that right track but instead trying to make logic of a spiderweb of information. if I could get some hints, not a parts list (but I aint gonna ignore it if you give one), or maybe some direction on what I should be researching more into for my application so I can funnel this overload and start to make sense of it.


not asking for a hand hold technically, just a general point in the right direction, id appreciate it loads guys. thanks.

StealthFormula

iTrader: (35)

I would personally focus on the following three things, in no particular order: 1. adding power 2. fixing the inadequacies of an LT1 f-body and 3. fixing the inadequacies that will become evident when you have a 400rwhp LT1 f-body.

All budget dependent of course here's what I think:

Power = bolt-ons plus a nice proven heads/cam package from say Lloyd Elliott or Advanced Induction. There's your 400rwhp goal.

Brakes = stock brakes are flat out dangerous IMO. At a minimum, LS1 front brake upgrade is a must.

Suspension = shocks (konis, bilstein, etc.), springs (stranos, bmr, etc), lca's, subframe connectors, etc.

Tires = good set of summer tires.

Other = If you have a manual you will need a clutch. You will also need to be slightly worried about that flimsy 10-bolt rear. If auto, you will need a torque converter and a trans cooler. I would recommend more gear than stock which may be essential depending on cam choice. You mentioned opti's in your post, as far as I am concerned there is one opti choice and that is stock Delphi.

You're talking pretty big money to do all the above and to do it right but it would certainly be a fun well-rounded car. Hopefully I didn't forget anything, good luck!

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

My votes for the engine:

http://gtp-racing.com/

http://www.advancedinduction.com/

Your average ported stock castings and a cam in the 230/240 range will net you around 400rwhp if not a little more. You'll have to gear the car to make all six gears usable. If you want to run 3.73's then you'll need to increase CID. You'll also want to run 30# injectors and a decent pump. The stock ignition is plenty good and there is no reason to run anything aftermarket.

TheUrbz

Stealth-
thanks for covering body aspects. I didn't want to put that into my already long winded post but yes, research wise im starting with the engine, mechanical wise I plan to start from the back and work my way forward. again my post was long to begin with but to add, heres some more that I KNOW I have-


410 gears, SLP exaust and intake, some sort of short throw unknown make, unknown suspension but I plan on getting new anyway but I know the car is lower than stock but the ride height is perfect so I have to figure out what they are. theyre old enough that whatever label was on them is long gone.


the list goes further into what else ive had in mind, tubular k members, a-arms, upgraded brakes, subframes, exaust etc. expensive yes but over the next 2-3 years as I lock down a part firmly it will be bought and stored until D-Day. from the look/sound of it, ill be building a whole new front clip.


the 10-bolt from what I read is worry some for dragging, but I understand the concept to make more power whatever its attached to needs to handle it. some ive read do just fine, others replace it immediately.


SS RRR-
im actually just 1.5 hrs away from GTR so that's a plus. plenty of guys have recommended Texas Performance but I see GTR a lot more for our cars. thank you for the links. im still reading up on AI. LE seems easy enough to just order the head and cam in a package, but reading up it seems like the super tech savvy go to AI and get theirs pieced together and im still in the process of understanding what im needing to piece together (valve train wise) rather than just buying an already completed head and saying "meh, itll work".


id hate to sound picky, im just incredibly mechanically inclined and in being a former jarhead chopper mech its all about- attention to detail, aye sir?

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Either shop will recommend good valvetrain components to use. As far as the diff. goes, I wouldn't worry about it until it broke. If you're a manual car just make sure to get a street friendly clutch. No pucked disc. If an auto then it should last you awhile and the max. rear ratio should be a 3.73 gear. My original post was under the assumption you had a manual car.

TheUrbz

yes sir is it a man-well. i plan on getting a rebuild kit for the T56 but i didn't put a thought to the clutch. i was of course gonna take a look at its condition but ive been told by some that the stock one would be fine. i guess im going to have to look into that as well.


but this is where the grey area comes in cause when i tell people i plan on putting power to this they go straight to drag, and when i tell them my intent you can see them trying to de-think of what i need plus what would be a beneficial vs. stuff that i don't need to sink that much into cause its not for track times, for instance everyone who puts power to theirs wants a new rear end, where through the keyhole ive been looking for my application, read a 10 bolt would be ok.

myltwon

iTrader: (1)

Stroking the motor, while not necessary, will help the drive ability of the vehicle and doesn't add significant cost if you are building a new short block.

It will also lower the required rpm to turn for equal peak power of a smaller displacement motor, meaning less demand on the valvetrain and gearing of the vehicle. This in turn can help the life of the valvetrain along with the motor itself. Rpm beats stuff up, no doubt about it.

Also peak power isn't everything, higher average power will make a faster car that drives more pleasantly most of the time all things being equal.

TheUrbz

see all the threads ive run across are about stroking it to get "dem big numbas". plus stroking it adds a significant cost to the build being that i see most of the kits average around 2k depending what all they come with and i see equal amount of threads stating eagle forged cranks are ok/garbage. i do have a machine shop that im sure if i asked nicely i can get them to do all my machine work for free. (not an engine machine shop but we have several lathes, VTL, 2 bridgeports, and a horizontal.)


i see what youre saying that stroking it while not adding the ridiculous power people think it will, it gives a high average over a wider range. just seems like a **** load of more work for not a big gain but, im not smart enough to make an educated guess on whether a higher average or better peek would be more suited to my driving style. again not draggin but there are times i have to drop a gear to show some antsy SN95 that im ugly, not dead.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Don't go into your T56 unless it's broke. The Borg Warner unit is still one of the strongest factory transmissions available. If yours shifts good then leave it alone.

TheUrbz

really? i mean, after 19 years and some hard driving id like to at least like to put some fresh gears in it and flush it out. i wouldn't try to mod it or beef it up just make sure that it can go another 19 years. on top of that, it dosent like to be put in reverse.

BALLSS

OP

First thanks for your service

Some good advice given here so I will throw in my $.02

Yes a 383 will cost more because of crank/rods. But you will make your power without spinning the motor as high as a 350/355. Both motors being otherwise = in parts & supporting mods the 383 will make more TQ than the 350/355. Scat forged crank & 6" rods and SRP pistons is good. Callies crank/rods & Mahle pistons are better. Stay away from cast anything

400 hp will over run a stock clutch. you will be in 4th, hammer it and the stock clutch will start to slip. So you then move up to a organic/puc type clutch or full face SPEC 3+ but street manners will decline. While I only make 400 RWHP I finally went with a McLeod Street Twin. VERY good street manners and holds PERIOD. But everything downstream of the Twin clutch is more susceptible to damage with clutch dumps. 1350 yokes on teh DS advised

If you just "drive" the car like a DD the stock rear end will hold up....but obviously that ain't going to happen with a 400 hp car. Clutch dumps will take its toll. As noted run it as long as it lasts and deal with it then.

t56 & 4:10's is a nice combo

There are other engine builders out there but one who is very highly regarded in the LT1 community is Karl Ellwein at ERE. He could build you any power level and would discuss various options with you. Your in TX so Lloyd Elliot would be the go to guy for H/C

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

What happens when you try to put it in reverse? Does it grind gears or is there a physical resistance when you try to put the shifter into reverse? It could be as simple as a reverse lockout solenoid either going bad or not making connection.

TheUrbz

SS RRR-
its the physical resistance. this is the whole point i want to rip apart the car in the first place. lots of small things i want to fix but while im at it put more into it.

******-
hell yea theres a lot if good info here, it wont go to waste i assure you. here i come in thinking that 383 is more than i need but yall are making me second guess, and by MYLTWON if it adds more bulletproofing then thats a good selling point for me. looks like ill have to re-open the option and dive into that again.

and by clutch slipping i see your point. on the way home i dropped into 5th to pass a semi, then dropped into 6th and kept on it to run it out (havent got on it in a long while, been easy driving it for awhile) and the RPMs continued to climb but wasnt going any faster. so yea i know i was gonna look into my clutch in the first place but if its givin me that much hassle now- definitely was given some wrong in person advice on that.

and thanks for the thanks ******, the memories i have of all 4 of us young non-rates piled in that thing is one of the reasons i cant let it go to waste.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

If it's not grinding gears when you try and put it in reverse could mean it's just the reverse lockout solenoid which is located externally and can easily be replaced. Do you know if it's connected? www.shbox.com is a great site for how to's and references. Is reverse the only difficult gear?

TheUrbz

yes sir, its the only gear. no grinding or difficulty in the others. its only difficult some times so im guessing its hooked up but going bad. i actually have that one bookmarked already but thank you for the link again and for the point in the right direction to the problem.

i appreciate the responses from everyone. but every single thread ive looked into for other issues or projects always has you and ****** in it and im glad i got the both of you helping me out. i like the cut of yalls jib.

myltwon

iTrader: (1)

The nice thing about having more average power and torque means that when you floor it your car will perform better at a wider range of rpm which makes even regular driving more enjoyable, not to mention that more cubic inches will tame a cam and make it act smaller than it is.

The big problem that comes from people stroking motors is when they focus entirely too much on the short block while neglecting the top end of the motor with mediocre parts. Almost no one ever wishes they went smaller on cubic inches.

BTW the eagle forged stuff is good to go especially given your goals, the cast crank is the problem one. I have a broken cast crank in my garage.

TheUrbz

that dosent make sense. but i also dont know why people will add stuff to their engine then not get it tuned. just slap it on and run as is. dont LT1s have 4 bolt centers, 2 bolt ends or am i thinking of some special truck model or something. my brother was the original one who wanted me to stroke it but cautioned me about putting in 4 bolt.

myltwon

iTrader: (1)

Fbody and bbody blocks are 2 bolt mains and ybody, aka corvettes, are 4 bolt mains. Both are straight drilled and the 4 bolt mains are stronger than 2 bolt mains since the stress is is distributed amongst more fasteners.

Stronger than both though are splayed mains meaning the main cap threads are drilled at an angle. This is because instead of relying on the threads alone for fastener strength the block material also accepts some of the load.

I believe your brother is thinking of older sbc blocks in which some four bolt versions were weaker than 2 bolt versions. Ls motors actually have 6 bolt mains iirc.

Again this is a case where more rpm will have more requirements for strength because a higher revving motor will need more main cap fastener strength than a lower revving one.

TheUrbz

naw my brother was warning me about the fact of getting it 4 bolted so it wouldn't explode. read about the splayed caps. i appreciate you and the other guys breaking it down barney style for me.


if im reading correctly they have to drill the holes then machine the bores. im gonna have to buy my machine shop a frickin keg for this favor. sure seems like a lot of extra machining for the bottom end just to ensure the functionality of dropping in a 383. yall have opened the option like ive said, but this is one of the reasons i wrote it off that upon reading the several threads through here it seemed like adding a whole lot of extra labor for not that much of a gain.


but hell, ive never been in a car with a 383, never even seen one built in person. it could be a damn rocket for all i know and worth every penny. all those threads ive read they want a 383 to be under 11 seconds, it could be exactly what i need for the type of non-stop light queen and more the "oh you want to speed up when im trying to pass you?" kind of on the highway driving that i do.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

If this is going to be an N/A application I wouldn't worry about splayed caps, IMO. Perhaps some billet main caps if you want more reinforcement... There have been endless debates and arguments as to whether splayed/straight 4-bolt main caps weaken the structure overall compared to 2-bolt.