M29_Formula

Ok, yesterday I pulled up to a light and when I was sitting there the car just quit running and wouldn't restart. It doesn't even crank when you try to start it. And when the key is in the on position, none of the lights on the dash illuminate like they used to. If you keep clicking it to the start position a bunch of times, sometimes it will fire up and run just fine for about a half second and then just quit.

I'm stumped and the car isn't here at the shop so I can't go dick with it. I checked all the battery, alt, and starter connections and they all seemed ok.

Anyone have any ideas?

Fastbird93

iTrader: (10)

Sounds like Ignition switch or VATS. Reason I say that is because one of the guys on the 93 board had his VATS die while he was driving and everything just shut off, no security light, no nothing.

TurboZ28

Hmm sounds like somehting good to know. What does VATS stand for and what does it do? Also where is it?

Fastbird93

iTrader: (10)

Vehicle Anti Theft System I believe.

Here's the VATS Connector under the steering column:
http://shbox.com/1/air_bag_disc_2.jpg

Here's the VATS bypass diagram:
http://shbox.com/1/vats_bypass.jpg

And here's how to get your key pellet resistor info:
http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech2.html#pass_key

As always, thanks to shoebox for the diagrams and photography.

LTSpeed

Sounds like an ignition switch to me. The switch is on top of (not inside) the steering column. It's ~$35 at autozone.

TwoFast4Lv

iTrader: (8)

BTW if you replace the Tumblers(have to for new VATS Sensor) you can transfer old set and not need new keys

Fastbird93

iTrader: (10)

When you key the switch on and get no lights, do you get any fuel pump priming or anything. Reason I'm leaning towards VATS is because even with an ignition switch failure you should still get power to the dash and the little light show before you start the car.

TwoFast4Lv

iTrader: (8)

Just the opisit(sp). with VATS failures we get all the lights but no start. when the ignition fails many things can happen. I lost my First ignition switch at 36k miles I am pretty sure the VATS sesor failing was due to dealer error fixing things

Fastbird93

iTrader: (10)

Depends on what kind of VATS failure. If it's simply the key/resistor not being read or picked up, then yes, you'll get the lights and everything, but when you try to start the car you'll get nothing (including a fuel pump prime when you initially key the car on) but a security light.

However, and I've seen this first hand, if your VATS module (think of it as the brain) goes, you'll get nothing, nada. Case in point (and the car I'm talking about):

The above mentioned person wasn't getting any lights or anything when keying on. Complete failure.

Could be either or though because they're so similar. I'd say if you're narrowed the issue down to one of the two, start with the cheaper/easier to replace and go from there.

TwoFast4Lv

iTrader: (8)

I can tell you first hand the VATS black box is not cheap NOR easy to replace....I have replaced it Only way I found to get it out is to completely remove and split the dash.

Fastbird93

iTrader: (10)

That'll buff right out!

M29_Formula

Ok, so we trailered the car up last night and dropped it off at the shop I work at. I checked and when the key is turned to the "On" position, there are no lights and no fuel pump prime. Ignition related things operate like normal - radio, turn signals, my hard-wired to ignition power fans. When turning the key to "Start" the lights on the dash illuminate but there is no crank.

So I guess it's time to pull the underdash panel and the column cover and atleast start from there? Or should I look into pricing on a new VATS module?

LTSpeed

Let's keep it simple since I'm kinda confused by what it doesn and doesn't do: If the dash is totally dead (no lights at all) and silent, and there's no fuel pump whine, it's the ignition switch box on top of the column.

M29_Formula

Correct. There's no lights, no chime in the "On" position. No fuel pump prime either. The radio works and my cooling fans that are jumped to run with the ignition turned "On" do work.

Fastbird93

iTrader: (10)

Vats module.

TwoFast4Lv

iTrader: (8)

I am leaning this direction and may even guess the screws may have came loose

M29_Formula

Ok, well I'll start with the ignition switch and go from there. I'll keep you guys updated.

ZmyHPandrun

iTrader: (2)

WORKED LIKE A CHARM! Thanks alot!!!

xxxtreme36

iTrader: (4)

hey im also having an issue like this, but all of my bells and whistles work, i get fuel pump prime, but the car wont roll over...........ive checked all grounds, all fuses, and i ran fine until today, then i was changing the inline fuel pump and after start and shut off a few times the car just wouldnt turn over....... any help?????

LTSpeed

Your's is NOT the ignition switch.