mpe331lx

iTrader: (5)

I tried the search button and found nothing but a blank screen, either the site or my computers all screwed up

I am in the process of building a 97 lt1. I was planning on doing the le2 kit, but came across Advanced inductions site. http://www..html There is a bit of a price difference, But wouldn't the car be faster and have better every day manners with a head that has 190cc ports that flow just as good as the le2 205cc ports?

I am looking for some track times or dyno graphs with either head package.

jdhommert

iTrader: (2)

Search on Cz28.com in the lt1 tech section...there is a very long thread on this exact topic...may even have the same title. Hopefully this one will stay civil. It seems that AI's stuff ALWAYS seems to put up great numbers, AI's stuff is excellent, but Lloyd's stuff is great too. Most people on a budget get Lloyd's stuff, but sine they are on a budget, they usually dont have the suspension etc setup that the guys who have no budget do, so that probably is a big contributing factor on why AI's stuff consistantly runs great numbers at the track. Don't let this mislead you to think that Lloyds stuff is subpar and isn't on the same level as AI's. Both crank out great stuff. Both will take care of you. From all the hours of research i've done, AI's stuff just seems to be a little more proven/faster at the track for various reasons.

Ideally, I'd like to have the AI heads, with a Bauer cam.

How much do you want for that silver LT1 SS hood.

Honda Hunter

iTrader: (8)

In my opinion both are good. The only issue is on the boards especially camz28.com Lloyd is pretty big because him and Bret post alot and answer questions therfore theyre able to get thier product out there easier. AI used to kinda do the same thing but they stopped.
What's odd is though more people seem to have the LE setup but it seems like just from my research AI seems do a little better even though there not on the board all the time. It's as though they let their product speak for itself. So with that said do a search on both boards. Weed out all the BS arguing and look for the numbers and how people liked what they had. Then call both and ask as many questions as you can to figure out which company can get you to where you want to be.
My AFR 190's were ported by Lloyd. Ive never had a chance to put them to test really because there was always something else getting in the way but overall dealing with Lloyd and Bret wasnt bad. Only downside I could remember was sometimes it was hard to get in contact with Lloyd and it took a little long than I wanted it too but nothing really serious.
If I needed to do the heads thing again I think I would try AI just so I can say Ive had both then I could decide from there which setup is best. Just my opinion.

97WS6NY

well, I don't know about AI, although I did consider their product when I built my 383, however they were not nearly as helpful as lloyd IMHO. Although I know that they do excellent work, 96capricemgr can attest to the quality of their labor. I have a setup from lloyd and bret, ported trickflow castings and a ported intake manifold as well as a *cough* large custom cam from bret and I have been %110 satisfied with both the raftsmanship and service from both of them, always return my calls same day if they don't answer first time. and even though I run my setup mainly on the street the results speak for themsleves, it is 5:30am, i just got back rom the club and ran a F430 on the way home on I-25. needless to say, he was shocked.

MrCadillac

uhh-oh, wheres 96caprice! I'm not gonna speak for him, but his AI 190 setup speaks loudly. when I looked here: http://dan.esteban.com/impalass/Retu...SelectedClass= I was quite shocked.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Well I have bested my times twice since I submitted a slip to that site, current times in my sig.

Changes from the 12.6 are 3.73s, 27x11.50 QTPs, belt off, tried ice but with rain threatening I ran within and hour of arrival so I got nowhere near the benifit I could have had I been able to leave it sit longer. Rims are heavy the rears are some old steel Keystones that are 25lbs apiece fronts are stock 15x7 Caprice. There are 4 heads/cam cars listed on that page ahead of me start comparing details and you will see why I am so happy with AI. I lack a lot of the light weight stuff those guys run and am still running corked exhaust when at least two of the cars ahead of me take it off completely for the weight reduction.
This is a daily driver occassional tow rig that I happen to race. If you guys doubt how little drag setup there is to the car there are other locals on this board who will vouch for me, a couple have been in the car even.

vanilla89

iTrader: (8)

don't beleve flow#'s!!!

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Good point, I think most of us know someone with some higher flowing heads making poor power.

flame

iTrader: (13)

Heres some real life proof for ya. LE2 head, custom Bret Bauer emission cam



Best track times at 3620lbs w/out driver are 12.26@113mph partialy tuned

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Real life proof is at the track not the dyno, Lloyd and Bret will even tell you that.

91Z28

He posted up a time. That tq curve is nice for a heads/cam car.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

I saw it, my comment stands.

flame

iTrader: (13)

The camshaft has a lot to do with the power levels. I believe the heads are fairly equal from what I've seen. The cam specs aren't public knowledge but I'm sure our cams differ a lot. I'll post up more track #'s now that its tuned fully. Another guy around here had AI fully ported heads and ran the GM847 cam which is alot bigger than my cam and put down 386 rwhp. What are your numbers 96capricemgr? The A4 is also alot easier at the track to launch especially with the power increases.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Car has not been on the dyno and as far as your comment on yours being partial tuned, mne has one AFR update that is all.

I think we all need to respect our vendors wishes and not talk exact cam specs but will still say this much my cam is mid 220s intake with mid .500s liftwith the 1.6s and an LSA tighter than 112.

I have seen people posts specs on cams that went with LE2 heads and have myself suggested they delete them from posts but from what I have seen your cam is probably similar duration, more if anything, with closer to .600 lift and a tighter LSA yet.

MPH is a good indication of things when traction is an issue, it is not the whole story either though. I have seen cars that hook OK and MPH increadibly and barely out ET me. Still it is tough to compare cars one guy may not realize he has some single part badly mismatched or another might stumble on something he thought insignifigant and not mention but it helps.

flame

iTrader: (13)

Each car is different and its the power under the curve not peak numbers that make it fast at the track. I'd like to see a dyno graph of your setup to compare. Either package will net good gains but tuning will be the deciding factor. I picked up 50rwhp and 20 rwtq over the mailorder tune.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

WOW who did the mailorder tune??? Mine is mailorder with one AFR update like I said and I do not have dyno numbers.

I agree too it is area under the curve, long before I was at this mod level and even before I had slicks I could walk LS1 cars to the 1/8 they would pass me and MPH much higher but the faster ET was not proportional. IMO that is something we have over them. They MPH and are great on the dyno, they get the job done on the strip but I always endup dispointed with the ETs they run for the MPH.

97WS6NY

And i have respect for anybody that respects custom cam specs like that. regardless of who specs a cam like that, it is private knowledge and that (requesting them to remove them) is dfefinitely the right thing to do.

Now, performance wise, i am not 100% sure, but everybody that has used either company has been totally satisfie from the performance of either. i don't think you will be disappointed either way. i have lloyd's stuff, 96capricemgr has AI's. both of us are completely satisfied I promise you that. you really can't make a wrong decision between the two. These are two HIGHLY CAPABLE head porters that can get the job done. either way you are on the right track if you are deciding between these two options. I can't speak for both first hand, but I bet you will not be disppointed with either one.

GreenbeanZ28

Ai all the way.

Tireburnin

iTrader: (42)

Buy the best you can afford. And do it right the first time, it's cheaper than redoing it.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

I'm still suprised about flames emissions legal results. Emissions are a killer for making camshafts fit into a set of parameters that do not work for making power and he did.

As far as cam specs being secret..... well the cams don't even have to come with a cam card. Look at LGM and their new stuff, they don't even tell you the cam specs with the cam.

Bret