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1993-97 Gen II Small Block V8

Dual spring or beehives

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Old 06-16-2007, 09:36 PM   #1
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Default Dual spring or beehives

which would be the best for a 12 to 1 compression 355 reving to 6800-7k.

I am between the crane 99893s dual spring
1.460" outside diameter
130 pounds seat pressure
402 pounds open pressure @ 1.150"


or the pac 1218s beehives
seat 130 @ 1.800/ Open 318 @ 1.200
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:58 PM   #2
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I just ordered Patroit springs from MPH. Great people to deal and great prices.
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Old 06-16-2007, 10:26 PM   #3
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I just ordered patriot Xtremes for my car, my old 918 hardware will be for sale if you are interested. And you ordered Patriots for LT1's right Imnotfast?
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Old 06-16-2007, 10:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_demon24
I just ordered patriot Xtremes for my car, my old 918 hardware will be for sale if you are interested. And you ordered Patriots for LT1's right Imnotfast?
Yes, Xtremes for LTx.
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Old 06-17-2007, 03:07 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnotfast
Yes, Xtremes for LTx.
I don't know why more people dont run patriots for LT1's, everyone acts like 918's are the only springs out there.
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Old 06-17-2007, 03:33 AM   #6
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tradeoff/ behives rev better {lighter} duals have a bakckup case 1 breaks. I went with LS6 beehives fit the same as cc918
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Old 06-17-2007, 12:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzchunk
tradeoff/ behives rev better {lighter} duals have a bakckup case 1 breaks. I went with LS6 beehives fit the same as cc918
PSI also has some great beehive springs. They're lighter and have better overall physical properties than dual springs.

The second spring as a "backup" is a common misconception. That inner spring is not strong enough to hold the valve. Think about it, if there's something going on that breaks the larger, stronger outer spring, how does that little inner spring stand a chance?
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Old 06-17-2007, 12:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seawolf06
PSI also has some great beehive springs. They're lighter and have better overall physical properties than dual springs.

The second spring as a "backup" is a common misconception. That inner spring is not strong enough to hold the valve. Think about it, if there's something going on that breaks the larger, stronger outer spring, how does that little inner spring stand a chance?
Actually I have seen them keep the valve from dropping when the out spring failed.

As the Beehives are evoling they will become the choice for street engines
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Old 06-17-2007, 12:38 PM   #9
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beehives are good springs,they drop in without machining the seat BUT when it comes down to it spend the money get the seats machined,get the 987s and be done with it!If you are spending the cash get a real set of lifters that can actually handle some real seat pressure and but a better spring on it with 140-180 on the seat.
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Old 06-17-2007, 12:45 PM   #10
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i just put in the 918 springs in but you MUST run the +.050 locks to get the right install height if your gonna run a decent lift cam. I got the 847 cam and i had to run the +050 locks so i dont get coil bind.
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Old 06-17-2007, 01:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96lt1m6
beehives are good springs,they drop in without machining the seat BUT when it comes down to it spend the money get the seats machined,get the 987s and be done with it!If you are spending the cash get a real set of lifters that can actually handle some real seat pressure and but a better spring on it with 140-180 on the seat.
The 987's are a huge step backwards, less spring pressure and a heavier spring. The patriots come with titanium retainers, and the outside diameter is only 1.3" so they fit in the stock heads without having to machine them.
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Old 06-17-2007, 01:08 PM   #12
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well as of right now I am between the crane 99893, patriot Xtremes, and then pac-1220s and heaving the heads machined to fit. the only thing that worries me about the patriot Xtremes is the kit is 275 and you get everything plus ti retainers so has anyone had experience with these quality wise and there longevity also if i got with the patriot will the gmpp lifters be enough.
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Old 06-17-2007, 01:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_demon24
The 987's are a huge step backwards, less spring pressure and a heavier spring. The patriots come with titanium retainers, and the outside diameter is only 1.3" so they fit in the stock heads without having to machine them.
i used the 987 for a reference for a dual spring to use instead of the beehive(another alternative),i prefer a spring that has a heavier seat psi like 140+ thats all. i wasnt attepting to create an argument at all.
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Old 06-17-2007, 01:53 PM   #14
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Well the way I look at it is with the duals, you're distributing the pressures to two different springs. So less stress with the duals. With the beehives all the pressure is on one.
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Old 06-17-2007, 02:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhdenney
Well the way I look at it is with the duals, you're distributing the pressures to two different springs. So less stress with the duals. With the beehives all the pressure is on one.
There's a lot more than that to consider. Beyond the weight savings that the beehives offer, the way it compresses changes the entire dynamics of the spring. There are plenty of articles comparing the duals to the beehives and the beehives win every time. Google brings up some.

Lunati also has some beehive springs coming out, not sure on specs yet, though.
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Old 06-17-2007, 02:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95FbFormula
well as of right now I am between the crane 99893, patriot Xtremes, and then pac-1220s and heaving the heads machined to fit. the only thing that worries me about the patriot Xtremes is the kit is 275 and you get everything plus ti retainers so has anyone had experience with these quality wise and there longevity also if i got with the patriot will the gmpp lifters be enough.
Do a search in the LSX sections, most heads/cam cars run them. ETP, AFR, TFS, TEA, ect all use same springs on their heads (all the gold springs are made by the same place). I'm also running the gmpp caddy lifters, I won't be able to get the patriots on until next weekend though.
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Old 06-17-2007, 02:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96lt1m6
i used the 987 for a reference for a dual spring to use instead of the beehive(another alternative),i prefer a spring that has a heavier seat psi like 140+ thats all. i wasnt attepting to create an argument at all.
They are only 120lbs @ 1.8", and coilbind is 1.14" so if you have a 600" lift cam like me 1.8" would be the lowest you could set them up at, and 120lbs on the seat wouldn't be anywhere near enough.
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Engine - stock shortblock, Ai 200cc heads/cam, jethot longtubes, 2otl, cai, asp u/d pulley, 58mm tb
Suspension - Koni's, strano springs, strano swaybars, umi phb, C5 brakes
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Old 06-17-2007, 02:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95FbFormula
well as of right now I am between the crane 99893, patriot Xtremes, and then pac-1220s and heaving the heads machined to fit. the only thing that worries me about the patriot Xtremes is the kit is 275 and you get everything plus ti retainers so has anyone had experience with these quality wise and there longevity also if i got with the patriot will the gmpp lifters be enough.
My vote is for PAC 1220


I'm running an aggressive cam and switching from the CC 918s to PAC 1220s was recommended by someone I trust; so I did.

Mike
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Old 06-17-2007, 05:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seawolf06
There's a lot more than that to consider. Beyond the weight savings that the beehives offer, the way it compresses changes the entire dynamics of the spring. There are plenty of articles comparing the duals to the beehives and the beehives win every time. Google brings up some.

Lunati also has some beehive springs coming out, not sure on specs yet, though.
With all due respect, I am sure beehives have their advantages. I think this is a preference thing and I turned up some links on my post. Here's one: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17861 Beehives were not out when I built my motor so I guess I am partial. Cheers!
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:54 AM   #20
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PAC also has a premium version of the 1218, the 1518. This spring will handle up to .650" lift all day long up to 7500 RPM if the rest of your valvetrain is up to it. I have tested this spring from free length to solid and after twice what we normally test springs to had no failures.


We also have a dual too. PAC-1221.

We will be putting a seat/retainer/lock package together soon to compete with the Patrioit package.
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:54 AM
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