Faceplating
12-06-2009, 07:26 PM
#1
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ancaster, ON - Where F-bodies are rare!
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Faceplating I am wondering what else is done to the transmission when it is faceplated. I understand each gear is modified, but I am wondering what else is changed.
Thanks
Thanks
12-06-2009, 10:43 PM
#5
Liberty mfg. the sliders with the ***** on them, as well as the plates that weld on the gears. From there, someone needs to machine the syncro teeth off of your gears, 1st-4th. Unless things have changed since I had mine done, libertys sliders must be used on gear pairs, i.e. 1&2 and/or 3&4. You cant get just 1st done on a T-56. After the teeth are machined off the gears, the plates need tig welded onto the gears. The welding process causes some shrinkage in the center of the gear where the bearing goes so they need honed back to proper size. Also, either the weld on the gears needs to be finished ground or the slider needs clearanced on a lathe so the slider doesnt grind against the gear. The old sliders, keys, hubs, and blocker rings as well as the spacer washers on 1&2 are no longer used. I chose to do this to my trans as I occasionally race and all my gears were shot anyway. It was actually cheaper to faceplate my trans if I remember correctly. I also upgraded to the viper output shaft and recommend doing so to anyone who drives hard since twisting output shafts arent uncommon.
Trending Topics
12-07-2009, 12:41 PM
#8
You will always want to use the clutch, even while racing. If you don't you're asking to break something. As for driving around town, even using the clutch it will be very clunky. The best bet is to double clutch so you don't wear everything out as quick.
12-07-2009, 11:14 PM
#11
First, I dont see how a T-56 could be faceplated on 2nd without having 1st done as well. In order for a syncro to be used on 1st, you have to have keys to secure the blocker ring. The keys go all the way through the hub and slider. The keys would have to be fabbed into the hub assem. on the 1st gear side only. I had my gears converted in Feb of 08 by six speeds inc and they said it wasnt possible. After receiving the parts, I could better understand why.
After driving mine for 3 months, I found clutchless shifting to be the smoothest. THE NEXT PART IS IMPORTANT!!!!!
To work up to being able to do this, I started by driving WITH the clutch for shifting. You have to get the feel for the speed differential between the gears while driving. I always engaged 5th at a stop to stop all the action in the trans when coming to a complete stop with the clutch fully in. 5th and 6th are syncro'd still after faceplating. I'd take off in 1st, then run the rpm's up, ease off the gas a bit so the car wouldnt be accelerating anymore, then pull into neutral THEN let off the gas, push in the clutch, and grab the next gear fast. The idea here is that when you pull into neutral without pushing in the clutch, you're allowing the motor to slow the RPM of the input shaft, thereby speed matching for the next gear change before pushing in the clutch and rapidly grabbing the next gear. The same procedure follows for the following upshifts. The progression to clutchless shifting depends on seat time and feel for the trans and engine rpm drop. after I drove the car for a few months, (I havent in 1 1/2 years due to a new motor and differential build) I discovered I could engage 1st without grinding by going into neutral 15 feet before a stop, pushing in the clutch at about 3-5 MPH while at the same time engaging 1st.... its an art. Taking off, I'd start in 1st, gas somewhat aggressive to where I wanted to shift, pull into neutral while simultaneously letting off the gas, then wait till the engine RPM dropped to the speed match, and jerked the shifter into gear. I cant stress enough how much driving time plays a role in getting this down. My tuner was amazed by it though. Most of the time my shifts were totally silent. I got real good at it because I DAILY DROVE it even in the winter. Id say after a couple of hundred miles, most can drive a faceplated trans daily but it isnt for the faint of heart. If you can tolerate a locker, you can easily tolerate a faceplated trans. IMO the locker sucks more. As far as downshifting while rolling, thats the hardest part. You have to be spot on with the speed match or you'll grind the gears...aka, faceplate. you have to shift to neutral without clutching, blip the throttle, clutch in and pull the next gear at the right time or its ugly.
After driving mine for 3 months, I found clutchless shifting to be the smoothest. THE NEXT PART IS IMPORTANT!!!!!
To work up to being able to do this, I started by driving WITH the clutch for shifting. You have to get the feel for the speed differential between the gears while driving. I always engaged 5th at a stop to stop all the action in the trans when coming to a complete stop with the clutch fully in. 5th and 6th are syncro'd still after faceplating. I'd take off in 1st, then run the rpm's up, ease off the gas a bit so the car wouldnt be accelerating anymore, then pull into neutral THEN let off the gas, push in the clutch, and grab the next gear fast. The idea here is that when you pull into neutral without pushing in the clutch, you're allowing the motor to slow the RPM of the input shaft, thereby speed matching for the next gear change before pushing in the clutch and rapidly grabbing the next gear. The same procedure follows for the following upshifts. The progression to clutchless shifting depends on seat time and feel for the trans and engine rpm drop. after I drove the car for a few months, (I havent in 1 1/2 years due to a new motor and differential build) I discovered I could engage 1st without grinding by going into neutral 15 feet before a stop, pushing in the clutch at about 3-5 MPH while at the same time engaging 1st.... its an art. Taking off, I'd start in 1st, gas somewhat aggressive to where I wanted to shift, pull into neutral while simultaneously letting off the gas, then wait till the engine RPM dropped to the speed match, and jerked the shifter into gear. I cant stress enough how much driving time plays a role in getting this down. My tuner was amazed by it though. Most of the time my shifts were totally silent. I got real good at it because I DAILY DROVE it even in the winter. Id say after a couple of hundred miles, most can drive a faceplated trans daily but it isnt for the faint of heart. If you can tolerate a locker, you can easily tolerate a faceplated trans. IMO the locker sucks more. As far as downshifting while rolling, thats the hardest part. You have to be spot on with the speed match or you'll grind the gears...aka, faceplate. you have to shift to neutral without clutching, blip the throttle, clutch in and pull the next gear at the right time or its ugly.
12-07-2009, 11:15 PM
#12
http://www.libertysgears.com/faceplate-proshift.htm
no pic of the slider but it shows the plate welded to the gear. The slider just has a **** that engages between the plate fingers.
no pic of the slider but it shows the plate welded to the gear. The slider just has a **** that engages between the plate fingers.
Last edited by DAVESS02; 12-07-2009 at 11:21 PM.
12-09-2009, 12:10 PM
#13
10 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First, I dont see how a T-56 could be faceplated on 2nd without having 1st done as well. In order for a syncro to be used on 1st, you have to have keys to secure the blocker ring. The keys go all the way through the hub and slider. The keys would have to be fabbed into the hub assem. on the 1st gear side only. I had my gears converted in Feb of 08 by six speeds inc and they said it wasnt possible. After receiving the parts, I could better understand why.
After driving mine for 3 months, I found clutchless shifting to be the smoothest. THE NEXT PART IS IMPORTANT!!!!!
To work up to being able to do this, I started by driving WITH the clutch for shifting. You have to get the feel for the speed differential between the gears while driving. I always engaged 5th at a stop to stop all the action in the trans when coming to a complete stop with the clutch fully in. 5th and 6th are syncro'd still after faceplating. I'd take off in 1st, then run the rpm's up, ease off the gas a bit so the car wouldnt be accelerating anymore, then pull into neutral THEN let off the gas, push in the clutch, and grab the next gear fast. The idea here is that when you pull into neutral without pushing in the clutch, you're allowing the motor to slow the RPM of the input shaft, thereby speed matching for the next gear change before pushing in the clutch and rapidly grabbing the next gear. The same procedure follows for the following upshifts. The progression to clutchless shifting depends on seat time and feel for the trans and engine rpm drop. after I drove the car for a few months, (I havent in 1 1/2 years due to a new motor and differential build) I discovered I could engage 1st without grinding by going into neutral 15 feet before a stop, pushing in the clutch at about 3-5 MPH while at the same time engaging 1st.... its an art. Taking off, I'd start in 1st, gas somewhat aggressive to where I wanted to shift, pull into neutral while simultaneously letting off the gas, then wait till the engine RPM dropped to the speed match, and jerked the shifter into gear. I cant stress enough how much driving time plays a role in getting this down. My tuner was amazed by it though. Most of the time my shifts were totally silent. I got real good at it because I DAILY DROVE it even in the winter. Id say after a couple of hundred miles, most can drive a faceplated trans daily but it isnt for the faint of heart. If you can tolerate a locker, you can easily tolerate a faceplated trans. IMO the locker sucks more. As far as downshifting while rolling, thats the hardest part. You have to be spot on with the speed match or you'll grind the gears...aka, faceplate. you have to shift to neutral without clutching, blip the throttle, clutch in and pull the next gear at the right time or its ugly.
After driving mine for 3 months, I found clutchless shifting to be the smoothest. THE NEXT PART IS IMPORTANT!!!!!
To work up to being able to do this, I started by driving WITH the clutch for shifting. You have to get the feel for the speed differential between the gears while driving. I always engaged 5th at a stop to stop all the action in the trans when coming to a complete stop with the clutch fully in. 5th and 6th are syncro'd still after faceplating. I'd take off in 1st, then run the rpm's up, ease off the gas a bit so the car wouldnt be accelerating anymore, then pull into neutral THEN let off the gas, push in the clutch, and grab the next gear fast. The idea here is that when you pull into neutral without pushing in the clutch, you're allowing the motor to slow the RPM of the input shaft, thereby speed matching for the next gear change before pushing in the clutch and rapidly grabbing the next gear. The same procedure follows for the following upshifts. The progression to clutchless shifting depends on seat time and feel for the trans and engine rpm drop. after I drove the car for a few months, (I havent in 1 1/2 years due to a new motor and differential build) I discovered I could engage 1st without grinding by going into neutral 15 feet before a stop, pushing in the clutch at about 3-5 MPH while at the same time engaging 1st.... its an art. Taking off, I'd start in 1st, gas somewhat aggressive to where I wanted to shift, pull into neutral while simultaneously letting off the gas, then wait till the engine RPM dropped to the speed match, and jerked the shifter into gear. I cant stress enough how much driving time plays a role in getting this down. My tuner was amazed by it though. Most of the time my shifts were totally silent. I got real good at it because I DAILY DROVE it even in the winter. Id say after a couple of hundred miles, most can drive a faceplated trans daily but it isnt for the faint of heart. If you can tolerate a locker, you can easily tolerate a faceplated trans. IMO the locker sucks more. As far as downshifting while rolling, thats the hardest part. You have to be spot on with the speed match or you'll grind the gears...aka, faceplate. you have to shift to neutral without clutching, blip the throttle, clutch in and pull the next gear at the right time or its ugly.
Bob
12-09-2009, 01:58 PM
#14
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Search my name. I have a long thread about my experience with a Liberty faceplated T56. I got to the point where driving around was very smooth and not "clunky" at all. It's all about practice and matching RPM. Upshifts can be very smooth and noise free when just driving around town.
Andrew
Andrew
12-09-2009, 02:04 PM
#15
10 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Search my name. I have a long thread about my experience with a Liberty faceplated T56. I got to the point where driving around was very smooth and not "clunky" at all. It's all about practice and matching RPM. Upshifts can be very smooth and noise free when just driving around town.
Andrew
Andrew
Bob
12-09-2009, 02:11 PM
#16
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
I've used that transmission with a stock LS6 clutch and also with a Quarter Master 8.5" single disk. The Quarter Master clutch would not be advisable in a heavy F-body. Mine was in a sub 3000 pound second gen RX7.
Video
The car needed 4.10s to work best. The launch was a little soft due to the light weight flywheel and clutch. Eventually ran a best of 10.95. The car made a hair under 400rwhp.
Andrew
Video
The car needed 4.10s to work best. The launch was a little soft due to the light weight flywheel and clutch. Eventually ran a best of 10.95. The car made a hair under 400rwhp.
Andrew
12-09-2009, 03:28 PM
#18
10 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've used that transmission with a stock LS6 clutch and also with a Quarter Master 8.5" single disk. The Quarter Master clutch would not be advisable in a heavy F-body. Mine was in a sub 3000 pound second gen RX7.
Video
The car needed 4.10s to work best. The launch was a little soft due to the light weight flywheel and clutch. Eventually ran a best of 10.95. The car made a hair under 400rwhp.
Andrew
Video
The car needed 4.10s to work best. The launch was a little soft due to the light weight flywheel and clutch. Eventually ran a best of 10.95. The car made a hair under 400rwhp.
Andrew
