1fastkingcab

ok so I'm working on my brother in-laws '02 SS, about 3000 miles ago I pulled out his trans and replaced 3rd gear and did a basic overhaul, at that time I put in a spec stage 1 clutch (Stock SS) and a pro 5.0 shifter he brings the car back to me last week grinding in every gear and with a slipping clutch. so I am thinking he has some kind of hydraulic issue that he is oblivious to. This time I sent the trans out to a local Tremic service center (trans axle in Baltimore MD) and got it back with a 2 year 24K mile warranty, I also did a new spec stage 1 clutch and matching spec aluminum flywheel. and put the car back together, I reused the slave cyl because it was new 3000 miles ago. So the car is back together and the couch pedal has to be mashed into the carpet to the the car into and out of gear while stopped. I pulled the trans back out and checked that the disc was facing the right direction and that the pilot bearing was far enough into the crank. and all was good, I replaced the slave for good luck while I was in there. I got the car back together again and bled no less than a quart of fluid through the system and have the same problem, so now I was thinking bad master, I just replaced the master and still have no clutch peadal.

I have the trans back out of the car now, I don't know what to do? the spacer spec sends with the clutch in in there. pilot look good, disc is in the right way, new master, new slave. WTF???

I'm going to make a remote bleeder this time I'm tired of bleeding this car.

any input????? what else can I check?

1badSS

iTrader: (1)

You can get a remote speed bleeder from tick,(best money I ever spent)sounds like air still in the hydraulics, I know when I did mine I bleed the **** out of it. I'm sure someone else will chime in and give you more input. Good luck with it.

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

You could still have air in the system. But it is worth checking the measurements described in the link below. Take a look and let me know what you find!

https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...need-shim.html

1fastkingcab

Yeah, I measured differently and I will double check, but the shim that came with the clutch seems right, about 3/16" I will try measuring the Tick way. a tech on the phone at spec recomended aplying vacuum to the master cylinder, I'm going to try that as well. but he said the vacuum trick has gotten him about 1" of clutch pedal back and right now 1" wont be enough. I have to start the car in gear right now with the clutch smashed into the floor and the car will start moving as soon as the starter starts cranking the clutch is fully engaged if I let the pedal come up just off the carpet.

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

Give the vacuum-bleed a shot and let me know the results. If you have an abundance of air in the system it can do some weird things...and I have seen dramatic improvements come as a result of freeing the system of air.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Double check your shim selection, make sure the master isn't leaking anywhere.

Once you're bleeding truly clean fluid, barely crack the slave bleeder, put a 90deg. spark plug boot on it, and route the fluid into the reservoir. Pumping the fluid through this way for a few min. *will* get rid of the air, assuming no leaks in the system.

Good luck.

Taken4granted

Get a monster, tick adj master, and speed bleeder.... Problem solved

SWEET98SS

iTrader: (8)

I agree, tickmaster and remote bleeder. I did my first clutch install and used these parts, had no problems at all. i have always believed in do it right the first time so I got the consensus on the board to go tick adjustable, glad I did

1BADAIR

iTrader: (1)

adjustable masters wont fix slave distance issues

nobird8991

iTrader: (4)

did you bench bleed the master cylinder before putting it in?


i had your same problem and what i found is there was air in the TOP section of the master. it happened cause the reservoir got too low sucked air down and the air went into the master and straight up to the top and got stuck there. best thing to do is unbolt the master cylinder and bend bleed it or tip it upside down and watch for air bubbles to come out. this should solve the problems you're having.

1fastkingcab

I measured all the dimensions inside the bell housing. and the spacer SPEC sent with the clutch was 100% correct, I reassembled everything and the clutch is crazy low. I applied vacuum to it and got a TON of air out, the pedal is much better, but still low. I'm going to pull the master off and bench bleed in again several times with the master in various positions. nobird8991 I think you are on to something.

Texhotrod593

iTrader: (7)

this might sound stupid...and btw, it did NOT happen to me, but i remember reading at one point and helping a friend with the same problem. it turned out to be a cracked firewall right aroung the master. so everytime the pedal was depressed it would push the master out. its hard to feel the difference, we found it by me watching while he pressed the pedal. but it could def be air left in the system. good luck

nobird8991

iTrader: (4)

good luck let me know where you get with it.

1fastkingcab

i'll check the firewall for damage, I am stumped, I got the car back together tonight and it's the exact same thing, ultra low pedal.

i am thinking about making the stock master adjustable. I think I saw A how to on it once.

squalor

iTrader: (3)

With a coupling nut and a couple of lock nuts ? It could pre-load the master but would not change the volume of fluid moved.

1fastkingcab

What's the difference? as far as I can tell I am pushing the pedal aprox 1" before the slave starts to move, I tough to tell because you can't see it moving, and is seems like if I could just push the pedal past the floor it would work fine.

I can't believe I still have air in it, I have used my vac pump from both ends, and even used 90deg boot on the slave and a Vacuum pump drawing through fluid so I could see any air coming out and I get none.

Here is what I have tried/ done

replaced the clutch
Replaced slave cyl
Replaced Master Cyl
removed the new master & re bench bleed it (and did the drill mod at that time)
Vacuum bled the resivor side
checked that the master was seated firmly against the fire wall
measured from the block to the fingers of the pressure plate (2 1/8")
Measured from the trans to the face of the new throwout bearing while compressed (no spring = 2 1/8 with the spec shim installed)


my only question at this point is, if the pressure plate sticks out 2 1/8" from the block and the throwout bearing is 2 1/8" from the trans when fully compressed. dosen't that leave extra space since the bell housing is 5 1/2" thick? what would happen if I used two shims and longer bolts to mount the slave. that would move the slave closer to the pressure plate.


I have only ever installed SPEC clutches in fbodys & vettes, and I have NEVER had this problem, I can't bellive that more shimming is the answer?

1fastkingcab

I just realized what I typed, I did measure to the fingers of the pressure plate FROM THE BELLHOUSING not the block sorry for confusion

so it dosen't matter how thick the bell housing , so from the bell housing where the trans bolts up i have 2 1/8" to the fingers of the pressure plate, and from the face of the T/O Bearing to the trans I have 2 1/8" with the SPEC shim installed. so the difference is 0.00" as far as I know the specification is 1/16~1/8 so I shouldn't even need a shim, that means that the TO bearing is actualy already too close.

I do not know what to do other than an adjustable master, right or wrong the car is not drivable with the peadal as low as is id right now.

squalor

iTrader: (3)

I guess what I was trying to say is, hypothetically, if the master has 3" of movement that it can use to displace fluid and the pedal moves in a inch before anything happens, your only displacing 2". If you preload to take up that inch, your still only moving 2". (discounting the mechanical advantage of the lever/pedal).
I'm a bad one to give advice though, my swapped RX7 has the exact same problem as your brother-in-law's SS. That's why I'm poking around in your thread. That, and I want to learn more about your swapped 300ZX What are you doing for clutch hydraulics on it ?
I did get one suggestion from a PM, going to try it Tues (my off day).
Rig up something to hold your pedal to the floor. Vacuum bleed the reservoir. Then try it.

Question: If you start the car in gear can you get in gears easier than if you start the car in neutral and then clutch to get in gears ?

squalor

iTrader: (3)

Repetition is the sincerest form of flatulence. Opps, I posted.

BTW, have you seen this link ?
http://home.comcast.net/~buschman_00...utchbleed.html

1fastkingcab

To answer your question, if I start the car in gear, as soon as the starter engages the car starts to creep forward, it's minimal the e-brake 2 clicks up can easily hold it, but in my shop on the flat concrete floor you need to absolutely MASH the pedal into the floor to easily shift into & out of 1st or reverse.

and as for the 300ZX swap, I have a 94 6speed LT1 z28 for parts I hope I can get the LT1 T56 to work behind the LS/LQ motor with the LT1 external slave cylinder

[edit] I just read that post, that is basically what I have been doing, but with a twist. I can see how that way could be better. I actually used a 90deg spark plug boot on the slave cyl bleeder and hooked my mighty vac up to that so I also bled the slave at the same time. and for the top side I just removed the black rubber boot that sits inside the resevior and used one of the tiny needle point fitting that came with my mighty vac and applyed vacuum to the entire resevior.