Syncromesh/Dexron III/ATF
06-22-2010, 11:49 AM
#1
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Syncromesh/Dexron III/ATF Are they compatible with each other? I have heard of people using GM Synchromesh and they were pleased with the results.
I want to change my tranny fluid and I'm considering using GM Synchromesh. Considering that its a GM product for GM transmissions, wouldn't it be safe to assume that it is safe for the T56?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12345349/
I want to change my tranny fluid and I'm considering using GM Synchromesh. Considering that its a GM product for GM transmissions, wouldn't it be safe to assume that it is safe for the T56?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12345349/
06-22-2010, 11:56 AM
#2
Yes, It is safe.
FYI you can buy Pennzoil (sp) Synchromesh as it is the exact same stuff, just GM labels it for themselves. You can purchase at the majority of auto retailers.
Before the Flame War begins, I use it myself and love it, and drive quite fine in colder weather.
FYI you can buy Pennzoil (sp) Synchromesh as it is the exact same stuff, just GM labels it for themselves. You can purchase at the majority of auto retailers.
Before the Flame War begins, I use it myself and love it, and drive quite fine in colder weather.
06-22-2010, 12:18 PM
#3
I switched to GM 13$ a quart syncromesh at 155,000 miles...bad idea, synchros went out within 1K miles or so.
Could it be a coincidence? Dumb on my part to switch at that high mileage? Syncromesh to blame? Who knows, I'll stick to plain jane dextron 3. Just my 2 cents, plenty have had good luck with syncromesh, just not myself.
Could it be a coincidence? Dumb on my part to switch at that high mileage? Syncromesh to blame? Who knows, I'll stick to plain jane dextron 3. Just my 2 cents, plenty have had good luck with syncromesh, just not myself.
06-22-2010, 12:52 PM
#5
I live in CT and drive the car regularly and I go to work when its -10 to Zero Degrees no issues. As for the 155k T-56, thats a Milage or Driver issue, not Fluid issue.
Some T-56's are notorioiusly notchy and some people can't deal with it. I myself have had Manual cars that had no feel for the shifter. I run a Hurst (Gm Upgraded) stock Throw shifter, on a Bone stock T-56, raced regularly with a textralia oz700 Z Grip on a Tick Perf. Master Cyl and it has positive feedback.
Like I said let the Flame War begin.
Some T-56's are notorioiusly notchy and some people can't deal with it. I myself have had Manual cars that had no feel for the shifter. I run a Hurst (Gm Upgraded) stock Throw shifter, on a Bone stock T-56, raced regularly with a textralia oz700 Z Grip on a Tick Perf. Master Cyl and it has positive feedback.
Like I said let the Flame War begin.
06-22-2010, 04:52 PM
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the car has close to 150k on it, and I do know the fluid has definitely been changed before, but I don't know when. Cold won't be an issue here in CA because it hardly ever gets below 35 in the coldest part of winter. It sounds to me like it was coincidence that the syncros went out 1k miles after the swap, Chavez. On second thought, I have heard of high mileage transmissions having problems after a fluid change. Those were automatic transmissions though.
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06-22-2010, 08:48 PM
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Amazing how so many people second-guess GM or Tremec/Borg-Warner. Dexron III was specified for a reason, be it mineral based OR full synthetic. Use it.
06-23-2010, 07:24 AM
#10
The reason why GM used Dexron III was that it was simply a cost issue. Being able to use the SAME fluid for either Automatics or Manual Transmission is a HUGE cost savings vs having to have two different inventories. Plus the Bulk rate discount is gigantic.
It has nothing really to do with the viscosity or lubration of Dexron, its the lowest costing.
GM Offers Synchromesh @ Dealerships for a reason, to MAKE money.
In the end it is about the fluid you like, whether it be a cost factor, or driveability.
IMO the fluid gets changed every 25-50k or heavy use (road racing, daily driving in city) OR when you break the transmission and rebuild it. So as far as cost, its honestly neglible. The only fluid reputed to not be used was Royal Purple due to I beleive Block Rings Disentigrated.
You will have choices between.
ATF (pick your brand)
Synchromesh
Redline
or whatever you want.
Last edited by BlackScreaminMachine; 06-23-2010 at 07:36 AM.
06-23-2010, 07:29 AM
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Oh no not this again.
I'm considering switching to Syncromesh. I have valvoline ATF in right now, and am not very pleased with it. My 93 honda civic with 312,000 miles shifts smoother than my 70,000 mile Camaro, which upsets me. Do i need a tranny rebuild? Possibly but it doesnt grind, its just notchy as hell which causes slow shifts.
I'm considering switching to Syncromesh. I have valvoline ATF in right now, and am not very pleased with it. My 93 honda civic with 312,000 miles shifts smoother than my 70,000 mile Camaro, which upsets me. Do i need a tranny rebuild? Possibly but it doesnt grind, its just notchy as hell which causes slow shifts.
06-23-2010, 08:17 AM
#12
Oh no not this again.
I'm considering switching to Syncromesh. I have valvoline ATF in right now, and am not very pleased with it. My 93 honda civic with 312,000 miles shifts smoother than my 70,000 mile Camaro, which upsets me. Do i need a tranny rebuild? Possibly but it doesnt grind, its just notchy as hell which causes slow shifts.
I'm considering switching to Syncromesh. I have valvoline ATF in right now, and am not very pleased with it. My 93 honda civic with 312,000 miles shifts smoother than my 70,000 mile Camaro, which upsets me. Do i need a tranny rebuild? Possibly but it doesnt grind, its just notchy as hell which causes slow shifts.
06-23-2010, 09:04 AM
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Incorrect.
The reason why GM used Dexron III was that it was simply a cost issue. Being able to use the SAME fluid for either Automatics or Manual Transmission is a HUGE cost savings vs having to have two different inventories. Plus the Bulk rate discount is gigantic.
It has nothing really to do with the viscosity or lubration of Dexron, its the lowest costing.
GM Offers Synchromesh @ Dealerships for a reason, to MAKE money.
In the end it is about the fluid you like, whether it be a cost factor, or driveability.
IMO the fluid gets changed every 25-50k or heavy use (road racing, daily driving in city) OR when you break the transmission and rebuild it. So as far as cost, its honestly neglible. The only fluid reputed to not be used was Royal Purple due to I beleive Block Rings Disentigrated.
You will have choices between.
ATF (pick your brand)
Synchromesh
Redline
or whatever you want.
The reason why GM used Dexron III was that it was simply a cost issue. Being able to use the SAME fluid for either Automatics or Manual Transmission is a HUGE cost savings vs having to have two different inventories. Plus the Bulk rate discount is gigantic.
It has nothing really to do with the viscosity or lubration of Dexron, its the lowest costing.
GM Offers Synchromesh @ Dealerships for a reason, to MAKE money.
In the end it is about the fluid you like, whether it be a cost factor, or driveability.
IMO the fluid gets changed every 25-50k or heavy use (road racing, daily driving in city) OR when you break the transmission and rebuild it. So as far as cost, its honestly neglible. The only fluid reputed to not be used was Royal Purple due to I beleive Block Rings Disentigrated.
You will have choices between.
ATF (pick your brand)
Synchromesh
Redline
or whatever you want.
If your contention that Synchromesh does not provide any material benefit and was used by GM dealers purely as a money-maker, then (assuming that is correct) why use it? Dexron III rated ATF is plentiful, and available from a number of sources, be it mineral or synthetic.
In the end, far too many people get caught up in this topic and usually for no good real reason, especially those guys with street driven/DDs that don't do much research and believe too much internet misinformation.
Btw, Red Line (D4) is ATF, as is Amsoil Torque-Drive.
I too heard the stories re: paper blocking rings in transmissions from the '97, '98, '99 time frame being negatively affected by using Red-Line's product (D4), but a lot of those stories were anecdotal and I, for one, never saw any definitive proof or study indicating this to be true. I, for example, switched to Red-Line D4 in my '99 6-speed and it remained there for several years with no apparent ill effects of any kind. I now use Amsoil Torque-Drive Dexron III rated ATF in my RPM-built trans, but that's just a personal choice I made between the different brands out there.
06-23-2010, 11:03 AM
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I'm gonna do a bit more research before I decide what I put in there. I'm leaning more towards the Syncromesh. Lots of guys use Syncromesh without a problem and most of them say they like it better.
Are there different types of Synchromesh?
Edit: By the way, this is for the t-56 in my TA. Don't be confused by the name.
Are there different types of Synchromesh?
Edit: By the way, this is for the t-56 in my TA. Don't be confused by the name.
06-23-2010, 11:22 AM
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06-23-2010, 11:26 AM
#16
Incorrect on the concept that people should use a fluid based on a manufacture's recommondation only. Just because Tremec and BW spec'ed it to be sufficent does not mean there is not better stuff out there.
Do a search as I had posted on this topic before and it became the flame war and I posted quite of few different links to give Validity to using Synchromesh as a Viable source of Lubrication.
When you do find that post you will see why I said it was incorrect. People do not always have to follow Factory recommendations. Great case in point was ALL C5 Corvettes were Filled with Mobile 1 from factory where as the LS1 Fbody got regular Dino Oil. Same motor, different lubrications.
Do a search as I had posted on this topic before and it became the flame war and I posted quite of few different links to give Validity to using Synchromesh as a Viable source of Lubrication.
When you do find that post you will see why I said it was incorrect. People do not always have to follow Factory recommendations. Great case in point was ALL C5 Corvettes were Filled with Mobile 1 from factory where as the LS1 Fbody got regular Dino Oil. Same motor, different lubrications.
Please tell me how what I said about Tremec/Borg-Warner specing Dexron III is "incorrect". It is NOT "incorrect". They did spec it. If you're saying that they spec'd it strictly for cost reasons and nothing else, that may be debatable, but to say I was "incorrect" is bs.
If your contention that Synchromesh does not provide any material benefit and was used by GM dealers purely as a money-maker, then (assuming that is correct) why use it? Dexron III rated ATF is plentiful, and available from a number of sources, be it mineral or synthetic.
In the end, far too many people get caught up in this topic and usually for no good real reason, especially those guys with street driven/DDs that don't do much research and believe too much internet misinformation.
Btw, Red Line (D4) is ATF, as is Amsoil Torque-Drive.
I too heard the stories re: paper blocking rings in transmissions from the '97, '98, '99 time frame being negatively affected by using Red-Line's product (D4), but a lot of those stories were anecdotal and I, for one, never saw any definitive proof or study indicating this to be true. I, for example, switched to Red-Line D4 in my '99 6-speed and it remained there for several years with no apparent ill effects of any kind. I now use Amsoil Torque-Drive Dexron III rated ATF in my RPM-built trans, but that's just a personal choice I made between the different brands out there.
If your contention that Synchromesh does not provide any material benefit and was used by GM dealers purely as a money-maker, then (assuming that is correct) why use it? Dexron III rated ATF is plentiful, and available from a number of sources, be it mineral or synthetic.
In the end, far too many people get caught up in this topic and usually for no good real reason, especially those guys with street driven/DDs that don't do much research and believe too much internet misinformation.
Btw, Red Line (D4) is ATF, as is Amsoil Torque-Drive.
I too heard the stories re: paper blocking rings in transmissions from the '97, '98, '99 time frame being negatively affected by using Red-Line's product (D4), but a lot of those stories were anecdotal and I, for one, never saw any definitive proof or study indicating this to be true. I, for example, switched to Red-Line D4 in my '99 6-speed and it remained there for several years with no apparent ill effects of any kind. I now use Amsoil Torque-Drive Dexron III rated ATF in my RPM-built trans, but that's just a personal choice I made between the different brands out there.
06-23-2010, 07:55 PM
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I just changed mine with the pennzoil syncromesh, seems like it will do the job well, especially for $7 a qt. at the local auto parts store, compared to GM who I called the other day and they said it was $17 a qt. for theirs, ridiculous
06-24-2010, 12:07 PM
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I made a simple statement that Tremec/BW recommends Dex III ATF. I also said (implied) that too many people operate on anecdotal/internet/my-buddy-said information. The upshot being to stop all the worrying about it and just use Dex III. Is that not true? If so, please show me where I'm "incorrect" (as you put it).
"Viable"? Does that mean that if Dex III is not available somewhere in the country, then Synchromesh is an acceptable substitute or alternative? Maybe so. No argument, but why worry about it in the first place? For something to be "Viable" just means it will work, it doesn't mean it's better or worse.
Too many people lose too much sleep over this subject, and for no good reason really. ESPECIALLY those guys with stock engines or maybe only a few mild mods or guys that have DDs and don't do serious racing. Same is true for spark plug topics and spark plug wire topics. There's even MORE bs out there on those topics than oils.
06-24-2010, 02:44 PM
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By todays standards, probably.
Since I have an A4 car and an M6 car I've learned a few things about Dexron 3.
GM stopped licensing it around 2006.
Every bottle of ATF you see does not say "dexron III" and it does not have GM's specification number on it. GM no longer regulates the additive package of todays ATF labled as DEX/MERC, "for use in DEXRON III applications" etc.
The only GM regulated ATF today is DEXRON VI.
That means it HAS TO have the recommended additive package.
As for the Synchromesh, it's still regulated by GM so, by law, it has to have the required additive package.
Since I have an A4 car and an M6 car I've learned a few things about Dexron 3.
GM stopped licensing it around 2006.
Every bottle of ATF you see does not say "dexron III" and it does not have GM's specification number on it. GM no longer regulates the additive package of todays ATF labled as DEX/MERC, "for use in DEXRON III applications" etc.
The only GM regulated ATF today is DEXRON VI.
That means it HAS TO have the recommended additive package.
As for the Synchromesh, it's still regulated by GM so, by law, it has to have the required additive package.
GM stopped licensing Dex III in 2005/06 but that doesn't change anything as far as suitable fluids to be used in the T56. The term Dexron III was a GM registered trademark, and it was developed using a particular formulation, and like a lot of other products, other manufacturers developed and produced their own ATFs that met the same criteria that GM established for it's branded product. Today, there are still a number of manufacturers that offer products that are recommended or are suitable for GM's "Dexron III" ATF. This is nothing new and has been going on for years and years. Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, Texas/Havoline, Mobil 1, Red Line, Amsoil, Castrol, etc, ALL offer ATFs that meet GM's Dexron III spec. Just like they do for "Type F", which is a Ford spec fluid.