Torque cut module for face plated and dog engagement gear sets
08-05-2011, 11:47 AM
#61
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Torque cut module for road racing I don't see any reason our torque cut module couldn't be used in road racing applications. You would get a torque cut on a downshift but it is very short so I don't think that would be an issue.
One concern I do have on road racing applications is that our current software logic uses the fact that the load cells are directional and the fact that we are using an H gate type shifter to help indentify the shifts. What this means is that our box expects the load to change direction each time a shift happens. Pulling on the load cell provides a different output than pushing on the load cell (2.5 volt centering voltage with no load and then it goes towards 5 volts in one direction of load and towards 0 volts with load in the other direction). Our module expects the shifts to occur in sequence (pull-push-pull-push...).
For example, if you pull on the lever to go from 1st to 2nd and then hold onto the lever still pulling on it while in 2nd, our module doesn't consider that to be another shift attempt. It won't do another torque cut until you push on the lever to go from 2nd to 3rd.
For road racing this would mean you couldn't skip gears. For road racing we might have to make it accept every load change as a shift. That is what we had planned to do if anyone wanted to use this module with a true sequential type gear box.
I will look into how we can do that in the software and see if it can all be done in the same module with another switch position or if we will have to custom program them for the road racing usage.
One concern I do have on road racing applications is that our current software logic uses the fact that the load cells are directional and the fact that we are using an H gate type shifter to help indentify the shifts. What this means is that our box expects the load to change direction each time a shift happens. Pulling on the load cell provides a different output than pushing on the load cell (2.5 volt centering voltage with no load and then it goes towards 5 volts in one direction of load and towards 0 volts with load in the other direction). Our module expects the shifts to occur in sequence (pull-push-pull-push...).
For example, if you pull on the lever to go from 1st to 2nd and then hold onto the lever still pulling on it while in 2nd, our module doesn't consider that to be another shift attempt. It won't do another torque cut until you push on the lever to go from 2nd to 3rd.
For road racing this would mean you couldn't skip gears. For road racing we might have to make it accept every load change as a shift. That is what we had planned to do if anyone wanted to use this module with a true sequential type gear box.
I will look into how we can do that in the software and see if it can all be done in the same module with another switch position or if we will have to custom program them for the road racing usage.
Absolutely correct. My impression was this setup was more for drags and not road racing, hence I thought my question was valid. With decent rear end gearing, you could likely cruise in 5th/6th most of the time, so coasting would not be a major problem for street driving too. Besides, if you're so hardcore to drive a faceplated trans on the street, I doubt if the additional step of being clutchless would cause you much concern.
08-05-2011, 01:15 PM
#62
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Absolutely correct. My impression was this setup was more for drags and not road racing, hence I thought my question was valid. With decent rear end gearing, you could likely cruise in 5th/6th most of the time, so coasting would not be a major problem for street driving too. Besides, if you're so hardcore to drive a faceplated trans on the street, I doubt if the additional step of being clutchless would cause you much concern.
Andrew
08-08-2011, 07:08 AM
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Linginfelter Staff:
I am impressed with what you are doing. I have a couple of questions. I have a Keisler Road and Track 6 speed "Clutchless".
Has there been any thoughts on paddle shifting with the Clutchless gearbox, except using products that actually mechanically shift through the "H" pattern when you pull the lever for a up shift or down shift? Some are already using the Blipping for down shifting. Here are a few site that offer the Mechanical shifting. It's pretty neat, if all this could work together you would essentially have a sequential gear box, without the 25k price tag to go with it.
Here is an example of an electric shifter: (Check out all 3 sites.)
http://mastershift.com/newvideogallery.html (Check out the SEMA Video)
http://www.proshift.com/ (These people work with some of the electronic 'Blipping, and momentary transmission unloading.)
Here is another company working on a similar system.
http://www.sssdrive.com/mustang_eng.php
I'm sure this isn't news to the people at Linginfelter, however for the rest of everyone some of this may be interesting.
I would be very interested on any developement you have in this direction, its progress, or whether or not it would be something that you would consider or are considering?
BTW: Thanks for moving the "State of the Art" for our cars forward.
Best Regards,
Ty O'Neal
I am impressed with what you are doing. I have a couple of questions. I have a Keisler Road and Track 6 speed "Clutchless".
Has there been any thoughts on paddle shifting with the Clutchless gearbox, except using products that actually mechanically shift through the "H" pattern when you pull the lever for a up shift or down shift? Some are already using the Blipping for down shifting. Here are a few site that offer the Mechanical shifting. It's pretty neat, if all this could work together you would essentially have a sequential gear box, without the 25k price tag to go with it.
Here is an example of an electric shifter: (Check out all 3 sites.)
http://mastershift.com/newvideogallery.html (Check out the SEMA Video)
http://www.proshift.com/ (These people work with some of the electronic 'Blipping, and momentary transmission unloading.)
Here is another company working on a similar system.
http://www.sssdrive.com/mustang_eng.php
I'm sure this isn't news to the people at Linginfelter, however for the rest of everyone some of this may be interesting.
I would be very interested on any developement you have in this direction, its progress, or whether or not it would be something that you would consider or are considering?
BTW: Thanks for moving the "State of the Art" for our cars forward.
Best Regards,
Ty O'Neal
08-08-2011, 08:36 AM
#65
Thanks Jason for all the effort keeping this thread informative and up to date!
10-08-2011, 02:32 PM
#66
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Andrew
10-09-2011, 07:31 PM
#67
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Road racing use We have made a software change so that our torque cut box has two ways of looking at the load cell input. In one mode it looks for the high/low changes and expects one to occur after the other. This is for conventional gear shift pattern cars and is primarily for drag racing where the shifts all occur one after the other without skipping gears or going up and down in gear position.
We now have a second mode that just looks for the load cell change and performs a torque cut if it sees the load cell input in either direction every time.
We now have a second mode that just looks for the load cell change and performs a torque cut if it sees the load cell input in either direction every time.
10-09-2011, 07:33 PM
#68
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Liberty gears Someone at Liberty or RPM would be better to answer this but I am sure if you want a set Liberty will make them and RPM will assembly it for you.
Just call the guys at RPM and I am sure they would be happy to quote it for you.
Just call the guys at RPM and I am sure they would be happy to quote it for you.
10-09-2011, 09:39 PM
#70
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Torque cut Yes, I have a torque cut module set aside for you and I have a load cell in production that is an inline style design with threaded holes on both sides so you can adapt your existing shift lever and shift **** (just put the load cell in between).
I hope to have the load cell in about two weeks.
I hope to have the load cell in about two weeks.
10-09-2011, 10:12 PM
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Yes, I have a torque cut module set aside for you and I have a load cell in production that is an inline style design with threaded holes on both sides so you can adapt your existing shift lever and shift **** (just put the load cell in between).
I hope to have the load cell in about two weeks.
I hope to have the load cell in about two weeks.
10-10-2011, 07:52 PM
#72
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Load cell The load cell that would go in between the shift lever and the **** is a little cheaper because we don't have to get the load cell put into a nice looking ****. Unless we see interest in this type, they will be a custom order only product. The cost will be $875. The lead time is roughly 2 to 4 weeks right now on these.
10-10-2011, 07:54 PM
#73
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Paddle shift and external control systems At least one of the companies linked to below has one of our torque cut modules for development purposes. Looking forward to seeing how it gets integrated into the system.
Linginfelter Staff:
I am impressed with what you are doing. I have a couple of questions. I have a Keisler Road and Track 6 speed "Clutchless".
Has there been any thoughts on paddle shifting with the Clutchless gearbox, except using products that actually mechanically shift through the "H" pattern when you pull the lever for a up shift or down shift? Some are already using the Blipping for down shifting. Here are a few site that offer the Mechanical shifting. It's pretty neat, if all this could work together you would essentially have a sequential gear box, without the 25k price tag to go with it.
Here is an example of an electric shifter: (Check out all 3 sites.)
http://mastershift.com/newvideogallery.html (Check out the SEMA Video)
http://www.proshift.com/ (These people work with some of the electronic 'Blipping, and momentary transmission unloading.)
Here is another company working on a similar system.
http://www.sssdrive.com/mustang_eng.php
I'm sure this isn't news to the people at Linginfelter, however for the rest of everyone some of this may be interesting.
I would be very interested on any developement you have in this direction, its progress, or whether or not it would be something that you would consider or are considering?
BTW: Thanks for moving the "State of the Art" for our cars forward.
Best Regards,
Ty O'Neal
I am impressed with what you are doing. I have a couple of questions. I have a Keisler Road and Track 6 speed "Clutchless".
Has there been any thoughts on paddle shifting with the Clutchless gearbox, except using products that actually mechanically shift through the "H" pattern when you pull the lever for a up shift or down shift? Some are already using the Blipping for down shifting. Here are a few site that offer the Mechanical shifting. It's pretty neat, if all this could work together you would essentially have a sequential gear box, without the 25k price tag to go with it.
Here is an example of an electric shifter: (Check out all 3 sites.)
http://mastershift.com/newvideogallery.html (Check out the SEMA Video)
http://www.proshift.com/ (These people work with some of the electronic 'Blipping, and momentary transmission unloading.)
Here is another company working on a similar system.
http://www.sssdrive.com/mustang_eng.php
I'm sure this isn't news to the people at Linginfelter, however for the rest of everyone some of this may be interesting.
I would be very interested on any developement you have in this direction, its progress, or whether or not it would be something that you would consider or are considering?
BTW: Thanks for moving the "State of the Art" for our cars forward.
Best Regards,
Ty O'Neal
10-11-2011, 08:59 AM
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this was brought up in another forum about this thread and i was curious about someone’s rebuttal.
it was mentioned that you could potentially shift off the rev limiter. you are putting tension on the shifter, rev limiter is hit, spark/timing cuts and then you're able to shift.
theoretical of course, but i don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
it was mentioned that you could potentially shift off the rev limiter. you are putting tension on the shifter, rev limiter is hit, spark/timing cuts and then you're able to shift.
theoretical of course, but i don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
10-11-2011, 02:48 PM
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this was brought up in another forum about this thread and i was curious about someone’s rebuttal.
it was mentioned that you could potentially shift off the rev limiter. you are putting tension on the shifter, rev limiter is hit, spark/timing cuts and then you're able to shift.
theoretical of course, but i don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
it was mentioned that you could potentially shift off the rev limiter. you are putting tension on the shifter, rev limiter is hit, spark/timing cuts and then you're able to shift.
theoretical of course, but i don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
I can't help but think that there are some really great possibilities with these transmissions, especially since automotive computer systems are advanced, and Drive by wire technology is common.
I saw a recent paper on installing anti-lock brakes into older cars. Since there is so much C4, C5, and C6 parts being used already, the Anti-lock brakes system would be a natural Evolution of the Pro-Touring Theme.
I remember when the 6L80e first came out. Sooner than later people figured out how to transplant it into a HotRod. At first people thought it would take ages to get the programming down.
The people in this industry are very smart and clever. If there is something that people would like, there is someone out there working on it.
Thanks for writing. I hope more people will add to this link. The Dog Box Gear box is not the cheapest, but with the hopefully new products coming out for them, they will be come a bigger and bigger bang for the buck.
Any other threads you find on this subject, please feel free to post it (Them).
Take care,
Ty O'Neal
10-11-2011, 08:35 PM
#76
TECH Senior Member
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this was brought up in another forum about this thread and i was curious about someone’s rebuttal.
it was mentioned that you could potentially shift off the rev limiter. you are putting tension on the shifter, rev limiter is hit, spark/timing cuts and then you're able to shift.
theoretical of course, but i don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
it was mentioned that you could potentially shift off the rev limiter. you are putting tension on the shifter, rev limiter is hit, spark/timing cuts and then you're able to shift.
theoretical of course, but i don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
Andrew
10-13-2011, 06:27 PM
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Jason,
Is there a version of the TC1 with a timing retard function for nitrous or are you guys planning on adding that option?
If so what is the part number?
Thanks!!!
Brad
Is there a version of the TC1 with a timing retard function for nitrous or are you guys planning on adding that option?
If so what is the part number?
Thanks!!!
Brad
10-14-2011, 09:02 AM
#79
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Thread Starter
Torque cut and timing retard module We don't currently have plans to make a module that does torque cut and timing retard. Our new circuit board and enclosure wouldn't accept the number of user adjustment dials needed to do that.
10-14-2011, 09:08 AM
#80
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RPM limit in stock and superstock I assume these vehicles are using a spark based RPM limiter. I am not sure if fuel based or throttle based RPM limiters would behave the same way. Most of the OEM RPM limiters are fuel and/or throttle based for emissions and catalyst durability reasons (although that can be changed in the calibrations).