Clutch System Woes - advice please!
06-02-2013, 01:14 PM
#1
Clutch System Woes - advice please! Looking for some advice from some of you more experienced with this.
Background - picked up my '00 SS last June with 66k miles on it. Car is now just shy of 70k miles. I am fairly certain the entire system is stock. Last summer, I had a handful of incidents where I was either locked out or ground a gear at high RPM shifts. I think I had a low clutch pedal a few times too, but it was nothing to drastic - just attributed it to the standard LS1/T56 problems. Over the winter, I bled the system with a powerbleeder @ 15psi. Fluid was very dirty - lots of grit in it. Car seemed just fine for the first couple of drives this year, but a couple of times I did grind a gear, which is kind of odd for me. Friday morning, I left home and the pedal seemed to be engaging right off the floor and it was shifting kinda finicky. After a couple of miles, it seemed better. I started to notice that when I was using the clutch a lot, like in traffic, the problem would get worse. Anyway, made the 16 mile drive into work OK. Took it out for lunch and it was flawless. Felt great, even with me beating on it a bit. Left work and was about 8 miles into my drive, and my pedal went to the floor. I can occasionally get it to lift back up, but it's basically on the floor 24/7.
Seems like this is purely a hydraulic issue. My first thought was just to buy a new GM master cylinder and see what that gets me. Looks like Rockauto has a Delco for $105 shipped. My concern is that if I do this, is it probable that the slave is going to go also?
What components would you recommend? Is the LS6 MC a decent unit?
If I end up needing to replace the slave, I've decided that I'll just do the clutch too - I don't know the history of what's in there, nor do I want to pull the trans twice. That's the next piece of advice I could use - what would you recommend? This will remain a mostly stock car. Not even sure if it'll see headers/cam - probably not.
At first, I considered just getting the "good" stuff - was looking at the Tick/Monster Stage 1 package. Total would be about $975. Then I started second guessing the Tick adjustable. I don't know that I want the adjustable. Just seems like something else I could mess up and have to dink with. The only reason I would shy away from the LS7 is that it's self-adjusting, and people seem to allege that the self-adjusting clutches are the cause of the high RPM lockout.
So, what would you all do? Should I start with just the MC and see where that gets me? I want to feel comfortable that the car is reliable. Is it probable that if the MC goes out, the slave is right behind it? Is it worth the piece of mind to just replace the whole system?
Background - picked up my '00 SS last June with 66k miles on it. Car is now just shy of 70k miles. I am fairly certain the entire system is stock. Last summer, I had a handful of incidents where I was either locked out or ground a gear at high RPM shifts. I think I had a low clutch pedal a few times too, but it was nothing to drastic - just attributed it to the standard LS1/T56 problems. Over the winter, I bled the system with a powerbleeder @ 15psi. Fluid was very dirty - lots of grit in it. Car seemed just fine for the first couple of drives this year, but a couple of times I did grind a gear, which is kind of odd for me. Friday morning, I left home and the pedal seemed to be engaging right off the floor and it was shifting kinda finicky. After a couple of miles, it seemed better. I started to notice that when I was using the clutch a lot, like in traffic, the problem would get worse. Anyway, made the 16 mile drive into work OK. Took it out for lunch and it was flawless. Felt great, even with me beating on it a bit. Left work and was about 8 miles into my drive, and my pedal went to the floor. I can occasionally get it to lift back up, but it's basically on the floor 24/7.
Seems like this is purely a hydraulic issue. My first thought was just to buy a new GM master cylinder and see what that gets me. Looks like Rockauto has a Delco for $105 shipped. My concern is that if I do this, is it probable that the slave is going to go also?
What components would you recommend? Is the LS6 MC a decent unit?
If I end up needing to replace the slave, I've decided that I'll just do the clutch too - I don't know the history of what's in there, nor do I want to pull the trans twice. That's the next piece of advice I could use - what would you recommend? This will remain a mostly stock car. Not even sure if it'll see headers/cam - probably not.
At first, I considered just getting the "good" stuff - was looking at the Tick/Monster Stage 1 package. Total would be about $975. Then I started second guessing the Tick adjustable. I don't know that I want the adjustable. Just seems like something else I could mess up and have to dink with. The only reason I would shy away from the LS7 is that it's self-adjusting, and people seem to allege that the self-adjusting clutches are the cause of the high RPM lockout.
So, what would you all do? Should I start with just the MC and see where that gets me? I want to feel comfortable that the car is reliable. Is it probable that if the MC goes out, the slave is right behind it? Is it worth the piece of mind to just replace the whole system?
06-02-2013, 05:45 PM
#2
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clutch sorry to hear that you are having these issues but i went through the same , first the master then stock replacement ls6 clutch and slave . it seemed to help after each part replacement very short term . i even bought a tick master, it wasnt until i put a stronger clutch in that my problem went away. different things have worked for other people i ended up going with the ls7 clutch and flywheel works great but sometimes wish i would've gone with a monster or something equal good luck
06-02-2013, 06:53 PM
#3
Thanks for the reply - one of the concerns I have with the LS7 clutch is that I'd be using it with an LS6 master/slave or a tick master/ls6 slave. Seems some claim the hydraulics can cause problems as they aren't really intended for the clutch.
Wonder if an LS6 master/slave and a Monster Stage 1 would fit my needs better.
Wonder if an LS6 master/slave and a Monster Stage 1 would fit my needs better.
06-02-2013, 07:27 PM
#4
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clutch i agree, with the ls7 the pedal is lower than i like due to me not shimming the slave but back to the pedal sticking or getting stuck i think the pressure plate cant take getting hot . if you get the stage 1 let me know how you like it!
06-03-2013, 09:33 AM
#5
OK, been reading and reading on this....
My pedal is on the floor, and I can't get it back up now. When I did get pressure, the clutch felt normal - no excessive slipping/noise/anything. I just had a very low engagement point. Right now, the pedal is literally on the floor and I can't disengage the clutch at all. I haven't noticed anything dripping from the bellhousing, which I would think of I had a bad slave. Also, if it were a bad slave, I'd ASSume that the MC would "pop" back up and I'd end up just puking fluid out of the damaged slave when I depressed the pedal again. The reservoir doesn't seem to be low on fluid like I am losing it anywhere. I am thinking it's the MC - do you guys get the same feeling?
That being said...if the consensus is it's the MC, do you all think the LS6 OE Master would do well enough for me ($105 shipped), or would it best best to go for the Tick unit now ($325)? If I need a new slave, I'd plan on running an LS6 or LS7 clutch. The car won't see track days - just me being an idiot on the street - and won't have any major power mods. If I can get by with just a MC and get comfortable that all is functioning well again, I'd be really happy. I'll look into a slave/clutch replacement next year like I had planned before this mess started.
My pedal is on the floor, and I can't get it back up now. When I did get pressure, the clutch felt normal - no excessive slipping/noise/anything. I just had a very low engagement point. Right now, the pedal is literally on the floor and I can't disengage the clutch at all. I haven't noticed anything dripping from the bellhousing, which I would think of I had a bad slave. Also, if it were a bad slave, I'd ASSume that the MC would "pop" back up and I'd end up just puking fluid out of the damaged slave when I depressed the pedal again. The reservoir doesn't seem to be low on fluid like I am losing it anywhere. I am thinking it's the MC - do you guys get the same feeling?
That being said...if the consensus is it's the MC, do you all think the LS6 OE Master would do well enough for me ($105 shipped), or would it best best to go for the Tick unit now ($325)? If I need a new slave, I'd plan on running an LS6 or LS7 clutch. The car won't see track days - just me being an idiot on the street - and won't have any major power mods. If I can get by with just a MC and get comfortable that all is functioning well again, I'd be really happy. I'll look into a slave/clutch replacement next year like I had planned before this mess started.
08-05-2013, 09:08 PM
#7
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From the sounds of it the master is leaking internaly and not able to build/ hold pressure. It all comes down to what you can afford, you can rreplace the master and see how long the slave lasts but im willing to bet not very long with the new master, and if you go with the tick i would say no doubt the slave will go.. as far as the tick vs ls6. Also comes down to what you can afford and changing the master is a bitch and i prefer to do it once and do it right. Not that the ls6 wont work but the tick is proven to be far superior and lets face it missing shifts is damn embarrassing. Not sure if any of this helps but just thought i would add my 2 cents..
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08-06-2013, 07:47 AM
#8
Sorry guys, never updated this.
Replaced the CMC and Slave with Autozone units. Got them both for 20% off with free shipping online, so I think it was just over $100 for both. The slave was a generic chinese one, I went to my local AZ and a fellow f-body enthusiast that worked there hooked me up by exchanging it for the "AP" branded one (so, it's the same unit as a GM/Delco).
I picked up an LS7 pp, clutch disc, and flywheel. Did the drill mod and reused the stock hose.
Got the car back together, bled everything with a powerbleeder, and couldn't get the damn thing to fully disengage. Bled again....and again....and again, and it seemed OK.
Drove it for 1 day and it started acting up again, couldn't get it into reverse. Disconnected the line from the slave, and the pedal was rock hard. Got pissed off and just opted to have the CMC swapped out under warranty. Installed replacement, bled the traditional way (thank god I installed that Tick remote bleeder!). And, by traditional way, I mean I didn't even trust the speed bleeder, I cracked it every time.
About 20-30 pedal pumps and the thing was bled and is performing very well - I have a couple thousand miles on it and am very pleased. Whether the 1st replacement CMC was junk or whether I made it junk by jacking up a seal during powerbleeding, I'll never know.
Replaced the CMC and Slave with Autozone units. Got them both for 20% off with free shipping online, so I think it was just over $100 for both. The slave was a generic chinese one, I went to my local AZ and a fellow f-body enthusiast that worked there hooked me up by exchanging it for the "AP" branded one (so, it's the same unit as a GM/Delco).
I picked up an LS7 pp, clutch disc, and flywheel. Did the drill mod and reused the stock hose.
Got the car back together, bled everything with a powerbleeder, and couldn't get the damn thing to fully disengage. Bled again....and again....and again, and it seemed OK.
Drove it for 1 day and it started acting up again, couldn't get it into reverse. Disconnected the line from the slave, and the pedal was rock hard. Got pissed off and just opted to have the CMC swapped out under warranty. Installed replacement, bled the traditional way (thank god I installed that Tick remote bleeder!). And, by traditional way, I mean I didn't even trust the speed bleeder, I cracked it every time.
About 20-30 pedal pumps and the thing was bled and is performing very well - I have a couple thousand miles on it and am very pleased. Whether the 1st replacement CMC was junk or whether I made it junk by jacking up a seal during powerbleeding, I'll never know.
08-19-2013, 01:37 PM
#9
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Glad you got it all working. I'm dealing with the same issue, still wont disengage even after installing a shim.
That's my question for you...did you shim your slave cyl while installing the LS7?
That's my question for you...did you shim your slave cyl while installing the LS7?
08-20-2013, 07:12 AM
#10
Nope, no shim. Everything was new - Autozone MC, Slave. Brand new GM PP, Flywheel, clutch disc. Put in a new GM pilot bearing too. The only thing that worked for me was an "old school" bleed. It was ridiculous how fast I got the thing to bleed using the traditional method (the remote bleeder did make it easy - just didn't use/trust the speed bleeder on it).