AF asleep on post...
07-24-2008, 11:46 PM
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AF asleep on post... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080725/...rce_nuke_codes
Things aren't looking too good for the AF these days.... And they let this go public. AF personnel watch your backs they're gonna be out for blood...
Things aren't looking too good for the AF these days.... And they let this go public. AF personnel watch your backs they're gonna be out for blood...
07-25-2008, 12:28 AM
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IMO it all stems from the relaxed atmosphere that the AF has. Attention to detail and discipline seem to be lacking judging by the big screw ups the AF has had in the last year or so. I dont say that to offend Airmen, but it is appearing to be all too true. Heads will fall over this.
The AF has a great deal of responsibility since they control a lot of highly classified data and equipment and we can not afford for the people that we entrust with this to be falling asleep on the job or misplacing nuclear devices. Much more different than a private fallling asleep at the staff duty desk at battalion.
The AF has a great deal of responsibility since they control a lot of highly classified data and equipment and we can not afford for the people that we entrust with this to be falling asleep on the job or misplacing nuclear devices. Much more different than a private fallling asleep at the staff duty desk at battalion.
WASHINGTON - Three ballistic missile crew members in North Dakota fell asleep while holding classified launch code devices this month, triggering an investigation by military and National Security Agency experts, the Air Force said Thursday.
The probe found that the missile launch codes were outdated and remained secure at all times. But the July 12 incident comes on the heels of a series of missteps by the Air Force that had already put the service under intense scrutiny.
"This was just a procedural violation that we investigated," said Air Force Col. Dewey Ford, a spokesman at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, Colo. "We determined that there was no compromise."
The lapse, which involved a crew based at Minot Air Force Base, was serious enough, however, to prompt an investigation by the 91st Missile Wing, in conjunction with codes experts at the 20th Air Force, U.S. Strategic Command and the National Security Agency.
And it delivers another blow to the beleaguered Air Force.
Last month, Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced a sweeping shake-up of the Air Force leadership, blaming them for failing to fully address a series of nuclear-related mishaps.
At the time, Gates said his decisions to sack the Air Force secretary and chief of staff were based mainly on the blistering conclusions of an internal report on the mistaken shipment to Taiwan of four Air Force fusing devices for ballistic missile nuclear warheads.
He also linked the underlying causes of that slip-up to the August incident in which a B-52 bomber was mistakenly armed with six nuclear warheads and flown from Minot Air Force Base to Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana.
No one has been punished yet in the latest Minot incident involving sleeping crew members. A continuing review by Minot commanders will determine what, if any, actions will be taken against them.
Ford and other Air Force officials said the Minot-based crew had code devices that were no longer usable, since new codes had been installed in the missiles.
The three crew members, who are in the 91st Missile Wing, were in the missile alert facility about 70 miles from Minot. That facility includes crew rest areas and sits above the underground control center where the actual keys can be turned to launch the ballistic missiles.
Officials said the three officers were behind locked doors and had with them the old code components, which are large classified devices that allow the crew to communicate with the missiles. Launch codes are part of the component, and the devices were described as large, metal boxes.
Ford said they were waiting to get back to base "and they fell asleep."
It is not clear how long they were asleep.
There are periodic, regularly scheduled code changes, and there was a crew of four on duty. One of the crew members was not in the room with the other three at the time they fell asleep, the Air Force said.
The investigation concluded that the codes had remained secured in their containers, which have combination locks that can only be opened by the crew. The containers remained with the crew at all time, and the facility is guarded by armed security forces.
Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., called the series of nuclear missteps involving Minot Air Force Base disappointing and unfortunate.
"This appears to me to be an incident in which codes were not compromised but some rules were broken, and those broken rules were reported," Dorgan said. "This does not appear to me to be equal to flying an airplane loaded with nuclear weapons halfway across the county — that was extraordinarily serious.
"I don't think this is an issue about the base — I think it's an issue about personnel," Dorgan said. "There have obviously been management and command problems at this base and the Air Force has made some command changes to respond to it."
Col. Bruce Emig was ousted following the August flight of the B-52 bomber.
"The violation was reported and it required reporting, and the airmen did their duty to report it," Dorgan said, referring to the latest incident.
North Dakota Gov. John Hoeven, who spoke with Air Force officials Thursday about the matter, said the Minot base is getting extra scrutiny because of its embarrassing mistakes.
"They told me procedural violations do occur periodically," he said.
But Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo. and chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, called the incident very troubling. "The new Air Force leadership, when confirmed, must take decisive and urgent steps to restore the culture of respect that our strategic weapons deserve and our national security demands," said Skelton.
Gen. Norton A. Schwartz, has been nominated to be the next Air Force chief of staff, and Michael Donley, for secretary. During their Senate confirmation hearing this week both men vowed to work to restore trust and confidence in the service.
The 91st missile wing has control of several facilities, including 150 intercontinental ballistic missiles.
The probe found that the missile launch codes were outdated and remained secure at all times. But the July 12 incident comes on the heels of a series of missteps by the Air Force that had already put the service under intense scrutiny.
"This was just a procedural violation that we investigated," said Air Force Col. Dewey Ford, a spokesman at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, Colo. "We determined that there was no compromise."
The lapse, which involved a crew based at Minot Air Force Base, was serious enough, however, to prompt an investigation by the 91st Missile Wing, in conjunction with codes experts at the 20th Air Force, U.S. Strategic Command and the National Security Agency.
And it delivers another blow to the beleaguered Air Force.
Last month, Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced a sweeping shake-up of the Air Force leadership, blaming them for failing to fully address a series of nuclear-related mishaps.
At the time, Gates said his decisions to sack the Air Force secretary and chief of staff were based mainly on the blistering conclusions of an internal report on the mistaken shipment to Taiwan of four Air Force fusing devices for ballistic missile nuclear warheads.
He also linked the underlying causes of that slip-up to the August incident in which a B-52 bomber was mistakenly armed with six nuclear warheads and flown from Minot Air Force Base to Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana.
No one has been punished yet in the latest Minot incident involving sleeping crew members. A continuing review by Minot commanders will determine what, if any, actions will be taken against them.
Ford and other Air Force officials said the Minot-based crew had code devices that were no longer usable, since new codes had been installed in the missiles.
The three crew members, who are in the 91st Missile Wing, were in the missile alert facility about 70 miles from Minot. That facility includes crew rest areas and sits above the underground control center where the actual keys can be turned to launch the ballistic missiles.
Officials said the three officers were behind locked doors and had with them the old code components, which are large classified devices that allow the crew to communicate with the missiles. Launch codes are part of the component, and the devices were described as large, metal boxes.
Ford said they were waiting to get back to base "and they fell asleep."
It is not clear how long they were asleep.
There are periodic, regularly scheduled code changes, and there was a crew of four on duty. One of the crew members was not in the room with the other three at the time they fell asleep, the Air Force said.
The investigation concluded that the codes had remained secured in their containers, which have combination locks that can only be opened by the crew. The containers remained with the crew at all time, and the facility is guarded by armed security forces.
Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., called the series of nuclear missteps involving Minot Air Force Base disappointing and unfortunate.
"This appears to me to be an incident in which codes were not compromised but some rules were broken, and those broken rules were reported," Dorgan said. "This does not appear to me to be equal to flying an airplane loaded with nuclear weapons halfway across the county — that was extraordinarily serious.
"I don't think this is an issue about the base — I think it's an issue about personnel," Dorgan said. "There have obviously been management and command problems at this base and the Air Force has made some command changes to respond to it."
Col. Bruce Emig was ousted following the August flight of the B-52 bomber.
"The violation was reported and it required reporting, and the airmen did their duty to report it," Dorgan said, referring to the latest incident.
North Dakota Gov. John Hoeven, who spoke with Air Force officials Thursday about the matter, said the Minot base is getting extra scrutiny because of its embarrassing mistakes.
"They told me procedural violations do occur periodically," he said.
But Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo. and chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, called the incident very troubling. "The new Air Force leadership, when confirmed, must take decisive and urgent steps to restore the culture of respect that our strategic weapons deserve and our national security demands," said Skelton.
Gen. Norton A. Schwartz, has been nominated to be the next Air Force chief of staff, and Michael Donley, for secretary. During their Senate confirmation hearing this week both men vowed to work to restore trust and confidence in the service.
The 91st missile wing has control of several facilities, including 150 intercontinental ballistic missiles.
07-25-2008, 06:44 AM
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Brad... I completly agree with you on this one. With the lax b/s that has been going around in the Air Force lately, I'm sure we will see alot of changes in the VERY near future. But I cant believe that PA would let this out... for real man. NOT COOL!!! This just makes us look bad in the eyes of the public, nothing more.
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07-25-2008, 12:15 PM
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To be fair, the guys purposely pulled over and fell asleep. It is something like a 7 hour drive out to the silo. The problem here isn't guys falling asleep during an alert, they all feel asleep while carrying the codes to launch the missiles. But, those codes are changed once they step outside the silo. So really nothing was compromised....Just the media using the AF as a punching bag.
07-25-2008, 02:47 PM
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To be fair, the guys purposely pulled over and fell asleep. It is something like a 7 hour drive out to the silo. The problem here isn't guys falling asleep during an alert, they all feel asleep while carrying the codes to launch the missiles. But, those codes are changed once they step outside the silo. So really nothing was compromised....Just the media using the AF as a punching bag.
There is no excuse for this behavior and I suggest you change your way of thinking on matters like this being that you are a future officer because if you allow your guys to break security rules like this it will be your head that is cut off.
Leaving sensitive items unsercured anytime is a major problem. In the Army we punish almost any violations that deal with sensitive material.
07-25-2008, 03:19 PM
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i dont understand how all of them just fell asleep especially while on duty. they sould have atleast took care of one another and did a 1 up and 1 down thing or something atleast man.
the sad part is that im supposed to go to FE WARREN which is almost the same mission as the one thats been having issues doin the same thing i believe..
the sad part is that im supposed to go to FE WARREN which is almost the same mission as the one thats been having issues doin the same thing i believe..
07-25-2008, 03:26 PM
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Brad hit the nail on the head...
No matter what the conditions are, if you are in a duty status, then there should not be any snoozing..
I do agree that the Military is getting way to relaxed... Its not just AF. its all branches. Times have changed, and the Military is going to change with those times. And in a way, all it does is hurt us in the long run.
And as for the comment made about it leaking out into the public, and having the AF look bad in the public's eye... Then stop doing stupid ****.. They pay our salary, so they have a right to know.. To a curtian extent of course.
No matter what the conditions are, if you are in a duty status, then there should not be any snoozing..
I do agree that the Military is getting way to relaxed... Its not just AF. its all branches. Times have changed, and the Military is going to change with those times. And in a way, all it does is hurt us in the long run.
And as for the comment made about it leaking out into the public, and having the AF look bad in the public's eye... Then stop doing stupid ****.. They pay our salary, so they have a right to know.. To a curtian extent of course.
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07-25-2008, 05:06 PM
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I just want to say FU to all of you who are saying that the Military is getting " TOO RELAXED". Every single branch of the Armed Forces are streched very thin right now and we are doing twice the work with half the people, which means that for everyone of you who are sitting there right now in your nice little AC'ed cubicales at work from 9 to 5, why dont you all try going into work at 5AM for 3 days working 12 hour shifts, then switch it up to 5PM for 3 days working 12 hour shifts and you tell me that your circadian rythem isnt really screwed up. Second of all yes we are hearing alot about the AF because of the Nuke issue a while back. I do remember hearing alot about the Army and their attention to detail when they shot one of their own guy a couple years ago(Patt Tillman). I also remember hearing alot about the Navy and their lax security after the USS Cole was blown up.
So with all that being said every single branch has had its share of mistakes in the past and they have all learned form them. Now its the AF's turn to learn from them, not sit here and take a pounding from the peanut gallery. Every branch has heard enough from all of you who love standing outside of the post's, base's, and installations protesting the war. If your not willing to stand behind our troops, here's a f'ing great idea, try standing in front of them! Or even a better idea, if you dont like the way things are going, go sign up, put your money where your mouth is and change things. Or how about this why dont you talk to you Senator or Congressmen, you elected them and they speak on your behalf. If by chance your Senator or Congressmen is a tool, or and idiot, and they arnt trying to change things, then chances are you are the tool or idiot that elected them and its your fault anyway.
Final thought, i would never put down another branch of the Military or talk down about them, we have all made mistakes and learned form them, we have to have each others back. God knows that the media and the public doesn't. Lets skick up for each other and not put each other down for our mistakes.
So with all that being said every single branch has had its share of mistakes in the past and they have all learned form them. Now its the AF's turn to learn from them, not sit here and take a pounding from the peanut gallery. Every branch has heard enough from all of you who love standing outside of the post's, base's, and installations protesting the war. If your not willing to stand behind our troops, here's a f'ing great idea, try standing in front of them! Or even a better idea, if you dont like the way things are going, go sign up, put your money where your mouth is and change things. Or how about this why dont you talk to you Senator or Congressmen, you elected them and they speak on your behalf. If by chance your Senator or Congressmen is a tool, or and idiot, and they arnt trying to change things, then chances are you are the tool or idiot that elected them and its your fault anyway.
Final thought, i would never put down another branch of the Military or talk down about them, we have all made mistakes and learned form them, we have to have each others back. God knows that the media and the public doesn't. Lets skick up for each other and not put each other down for our mistakes.
07-25-2008, 06:03 PM
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I just want to say FU to all of you who are saying that the Military is getting " TOO RELAXED". Every single branch of the Armed Forces are streched very thin right now and we are doing twice the work with half the people, which means that for everyone of you who are sitting there right now in your nice little AC'ed cubicales at work from 9 to 5, why dont you all try going into work at 5AM for 3 days working 12 hour shifts, then switch it up to 5PM for 3 days working 12 hour shifts and you tell me that your circadian rythem isnt really screwed up. Second of all yes we are hearing alot about the AF because of the Nuke issue a while back. I do remember hearing alot about the Army and their attention to detail when they shot one of their own guy a couple years ago(Patt Tillman). I also remember hearing alot about the Navy and their lax security after the USS Cole was blown up.
So with all that being said every single branch has had its share of mistakes in the past and they have all learned form them. Now its the AF's turn to learn from them, not sit here and take a pounding from the peanut gallery. Every branch has heard enough from all of you who love standing outside of the post's, base's, and installations protesting the war. If your not willing to stand behind our troops, here's a f'ing great idea, try standing in front of them! Or even a better idea, if you dont like the way things are going, go sign up, put your money where your mouth is and change things. Or how about this why dont you talk to you Senator or Congressmen, you elected them and they speak on your behalf. If by chance your Senator or Congressmen is a tool, or and idiot, and they arnt trying to change things, then chances are you are the tool or idiot that elected them and its your fault anyway.
Final thought, i would never put down another branch of the Military or talk down about them, we have all made mistakes and learned form them, we have to have each others back. God knows that the media and the public doesn't. Lets skick up for each other and not put each other down for our mistakes.
So with all that being said every single branch has had its share of mistakes in the past and they have all learned form them. Now its the AF's turn to learn from them, not sit here and take a pounding from the peanut gallery. Every branch has heard enough from all of you who love standing outside of the post's, base's, and installations protesting the war. If your not willing to stand behind our troops, here's a f'ing great idea, try standing in front of them! Or even a better idea, if you dont like the way things are going, go sign up, put your money where your mouth is and change things. Or how about this why dont you talk to you Senator or Congressmen, you elected them and they speak on your behalf. If by chance your Senator or Congressmen is a tool, or and idiot, and they arnt trying to change things, then chances are you are the tool or idiot that elected them and its your fault anyway.
Final thought, i would never put down another branch of the Military or talk down about them, we have all made mistakes and learned form them, we have to have each others back. God knows that the media and the public doesn't. Lets skick up for each other and not put each other down for our mistakes.
We are over manned and we still do blue and gold shifts.. If you can't handle the hours, then when your times up get the **** out.... Its as simple as that.. But I know one thing, the damn military is by far the most easy job out there.. Even if you are working long tuff hours, or overseas protecting our nation
I have been active Mil for 8+ yrs now.. And I am saying they are too lax... Why? Because I witness it every damn day...
And as for the navy screwing up when the Cole got hit.. Dude they didn't screw up, That was an attack... The reason the boat got so damn close to begin with, is because of this little thing called RULES OF ENGAGEMENT... The Navy was doing there job, and actually did it to a T...
You are right about how every branch screws up, and now its the AF thats in the spot light.. We all go through with it. If it was any other branch, I would say the same damn thing I said three posts up..
07-25-2008, 06:20 PM
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Well for one... The Navy isn't under manned... Thats for damn certian. And for two.. 3 days of working 12 hour shifts... OMG thats ******* sad.. I can't beleive they put you through that tortur. We are over manned and we still do blue and gold shifts.. If you can't handle the hours, then when your times up get the **** out.... Its as simple as that.. But I know one thing, the damn military is by far the most easy job out there.. Even if you are working long tuff hours, or overseas protecting our nation
I have been active Mil for 8+ yrs now.. And I am saying they are too lax... Why? Because I witness it every damn day...
And as for the navy screwing up when the Cole got hit.. Dude they didn't screw up, That was an attack... The reason the boat got so damn close to begin with, is because of this little thing called RULES OF ENGAGEMENT... The Navy was doing there job, and actually did it to a T...
You are right about how every branch screws up, and now its the AF thats in the spot light.. We all go through with it. If it was any other branch, I would say the same damn thing I said three posts up..
We are over manned and we still do blue and gold shifts.. If you can't handle the hours, then when your times up get the **** out.... Its as simple as that.. But I know one thing, the damn military is by far the most easy job out there.. Even if you are working long tuff hours, or overseas protecting our nationI have been active Mil for 8+ yrs now.. And I am saying they are too lax... Why? Because I witness it every damn day...
And as for the navy screwing up when the Cole got hit.. Dude they didn't screw up, That was an attack... The reason the boat got so damn close to begin with, is because of this little thing called RULES OF ENGAGEMENT... The Navy was doing there job, and actually did it to a T...
You are right about how every branch screws up, and now its the AF thats in the spot light.. We all go through with it. If it was any other branch, I would say the same damn thing I said three posts up..
07-25-2008, 06:39 PM
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I just can't believe that they went public with this. This should have been handled at the lowest level, and really is a bad time to come out for the air force. The bad thing is that that this kind of **** rolls down hill and quick. Top is gonna be out for blood, and it's NOT gonna be good for the 99% of the Air Force that day in day out does their job right and doesn't need this BS...
07-25-2008, 06:58 PM
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The three that fell asleep were officers, this is going to kill there career. I'm sure everyone of them would have rather been taken out back and hazed than have all this spread to the public. Like endlessSummer said it should have been handled at the lowest level.
07-25-2008, 08:59 PM
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Well for one... The Navy isn't under manned... Thats for damn certian. And for two.. 3 days of working 12 hour shifts... OMG thats ******* sad.. I can't beleive they put you through that tortur. We are over manned and we still do blue and gold shifts.. If you can't handle the hours, then when your times up get the **** out.... Its as simple as that.. But I know one thing, the damn military is by far the most easy job out there.. Even if you are working long tuff hours, or overseas protecting our nation
I have been active Mil for 8+ yrs now.. And I am saying they are too lax... Why? Because I witness it every damn day...
And as for the navy screwing up when the Cole got hit.. Dude they didn't screw up, That was an attack... The reason the boat got so damn close to begin with, is because of this little thing called RULES OF ENGAGEMENT... The Navy was doing there job, and actually did it to a T...
You are right about how every branch screws up, and now its the AF thats in the spot light.. We all go through with it. If it was any other branch, I would say the same damn thing I said three posts up..
We are over manned and we still do blue and gold shifts.. If you can't handle the hours, then when your times up get the **** out.... Its as simple as that.. But I know one thing, the damn military is by far the most easy job out there.. Even if you are working long tuff hours, or overseas protecting our nationI have been active Mil for 8+ yrs now.. And I am saying they are too lax... Why? Because I witness it every damn day...
And as for the navy screwing up when the Cole got hit.. Dude they didn't screw up, That was an attack... The reason the boat got so damn close to begin with, is because of this little thing called RULES OF ENGAGEMENT... The Navy was doing there job, and actually did it to a T...
You are right about how every branch screws up, and now its the AF thats in the spot light.. We all go through with it. If it was any other branch, I would say the same damn thing I said three posts up..
07-25-2008, 09:24 PM
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Thank you for proving my point exactly. Way to stick up for another branch of the service. I guess if you knew how to read then you would have understood that 3 day 12's followed right up with 3 night 12's= 6 days of continous work all while switching shifts half way throught the week. Glad to hear the NAVY is overmaned, must explain why you have no F'ing idea what im talking about. So everyone please excuse me, the NAVY is the only military branch that isnt undermaned right now. Glad to hear you have a "easy job" must be nice to skate by on the Gov's dime, but i can tell you that most of the military bust's their *** out there glad to hear that you dont though, im so happy for you. ROE's wow, good one, i cant remember were they driving a 50ft. speed boat or was a 15ft fishing boat.HUMMMMM??? National assest and you wouldnt stop them, you would get stoped if you were told to by the coast guard off the coast of Florida one way or another, wouldn't you????? Oh and glad to hear you have been in for 8 years, and had it easy, you must be one of the Lax people that are in right now..........
And exactly what was your point??? Dude you have no idea what hard work is.. Try being 6 and 6 for 9 in half months in 134+ heat and still manage to work an 8 hour day...... Then once you do that, then come cry on here about being 12 and 12... Until then sit down, and shut the **** up!!!!
You said EVERYSINGLE branch of the service is over manned, I was just stating that we arn't.. Who said my job was easy?? Do you know what I do for a living??? Was I at work at the time of posting to your statement??? But since you don't know, you automatically assume I am sitting there waisting the Tax payers dime..
How was the ship's crew suppose to stop them??? Spray 150 pounds of pure salt water at there craft, and hope that it would scare them to take off in another direction??? Or were they suppose to go against the ROE, and then be in a bigger mess than what they allready were in??? It didn't matter what size the craft was that caused the mess... Were we in a time of war when that happened??? Was the place known to be a RED FLAGGED PORT???
07-25-2008, 09:52 PM
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And exactly what was your point??? Dude you have no idea what hard work is.. Try being 6 and 6 for 9 in half months in 134+ heat and still manage to work an 8 hour day...... Then once you do that, then come cry on here about being 12 and 12... Until then sit down, and shut the **** up!!!!
You said EVERYSINGLE branch of the service is over manned, I was just stating that we arn't.. Who said my job was easy?? Do you know what I do for a living??? Was I at work at the time of posting to your statement??? But since you don't know, you automatically assume I am sitting there waisting the Tax payers dime..
How was the ship's crew suppose to stop them??? Spray 150 pounds of pure salt water at there craft, and hope that it would scare them to take off in another direction??? Or were they suppose to go against the ROE, and then be in a bigger mess than what they allready were in??? It didn't matter what size the craft was that caused the mess... Were we in a time of war when that happened??? Was the place known to be a RED FLAGGED PORT???
You said EVERYSINGLE branch of the service is over manned, I was just stating that we arn't.. Who said my job was easy?? Do you know what I do for a living??? Was I at work at the time of posting to your statement??? But since you don't know, you automatically assume I am sitting there waisting the Tax payers dime..
How was the ship's crew suppose to stop them??? Spray 150 pounds of pure salt water at there craft, and hope that it would scare them to take off in another direction??? Or were they suppose to go against the ROE, and then be in a bigger mess than what they allready were in??? It didn't matter what size the craft was that caused the mess... Were we in a time of war when that happened??? Was the place known to be a RED FLAGGED PORT???
My point: Stick up for one another, not bash each other, the media does it enough
Me Crying: I dont think so, you stated "the damn military is by far the most easy job out there", I was just stating the facts unlike your quote.
Next: I didnt say "EVERYSINGLE branch of the service is over manned", i beleave what i said is "Every single branch of the Armed Forces are streched very thin right now and we are doing twice the work with half the people", but hey if you think that means we are all OVERMANED then good job.
Who said your "job was easy": YOU DID by saying this "the damn military is by far the most easy job out there"
Do i know what you do for a living: Nope and dont care!!
Now the boat thing: Your damn right, F the ROE's if it means saving a national assest, and saylors lives!!! It was a fishing boat for gods sake, and it rammed you ship, shoot the f'ers!!
Go back to your, quote "the most easy job out there".
Hope you have a wonderful day.
07-25-2008, 10:18 PM
#17
11 Second Club
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To help my special needs friend here: Ha ha thats a good one...
My point: Stick up for one another, not bash each other, the media does it enough... How was I Bashing anybody. If you **** up, then you should own up.. Simple as that.. If the Navy fucked up. I would be the first to admit it...
Me Crying: I dont think so, you stated "the damn military is by far the most easy job out there", I was just stating the facts unlike your quote. How is it not an easy job. And that goes for everyone.. Three things that they ask the most for are,, Be on time, have a cleaned pressed uniform, do your JOB.... If you do those three things, your life in the Military is a cake walk..
Next: I didnt say "EVERYSINGLE branch of the service is over manned", i beleave what i said is "Every single branch of the Armed Forces are streched very thin right now and we are doing twice the work with half the people", but hey if you think that means we are all OVERMANED then good job. I know what you said, and what I said is the Navy, which if you didn't know... Is a part of the Armed Forces... Is not undermanned.. and streched very thin, like you had stated..
Who said your "job was easy": YOU DID by saying this "the damn military is by far the most easy job out there" My job is easy, I do what I am asked to do, and they treat me pretty damn well... And that doesn't just apply to me. That apply's to all the Armed Forces...
Do i know what you do for a living: Nope and dont care!! Ha ha, classic.I am kinda interested in what you do though... Sounds like you have a tuff job
Now the boat thing: Your damn right, F the ROE's if it means saving a national assest, and saylors lives!!! It was a fishing boat for gods sake, and it rammed you ship, shoot the f'ers!! Wish we could have just shot the Fcker's.. But we couldn't. You stated that the Navy had screwed up. Just like the Army did a few years ago, and just like the AF did here lately.. And what I am saying is the Navy didn't screw up. Like YOU stated we did...
Go back to your, quote "the most easy job out there". I will, and thats probibly why I probibly make more than you, get more respect from my fellow service man than you, and NOT GET MY PANTIES IN A TWIST OVER SOMETHING SO STUPID AS THIS... Like you.. Ha ha..
Hope you have a wonderful day. I will have a wonderfull day, thank you.
My point: Stick up for one another, not bash each other, the media does it enough... How was I Bashing anybody. If you **** up, then you should own up.. Simple as that.. If the Navy fucked up. I would be the first to admit it...
Me Crying: I dont think so, you stated "the damn military is by far the most easy job out there", I was just stating the facts unlike your quote. How is it not an easy job. And that goes for everyone.. Three things that they ask the most for are,, Be on time, have a cleaned pressed uniform, do your JOB.... If you do those three things, your life in the Military is a cake walk..
Next: I didnt say "EVERYSINGLE branch of the service is over manned", i beleave what i said is "Every single branch of the Armed Forces are streched very thin right now and we are doing twice the work with half the people", but hey if you think that means we are all OVERMANED then good job. I know what you said, and what I said is the Navy, which if you didn't know... Is a part of the Armed Forces... Is not undermanned.. and streched very thin, like you had stated..
Who said your "job was easy": YOU DID by saying this "the damn military is by far the most easy job out there" My job is easy, I do what I am asked to do, and they treat me pretty damn well... And that doesn't just apply to me. That apply's to all the Armed Forces...
Do i know what you do for a living: Nope and dont care!! Ha ha, classic.I am kinda interested in what you do though... Sounds like you have a tuff job
Now the boat thing: Your damn right, F the ROE's if it means saving a national assest, and saylors lives!!! It was a fishing boat for gods sake, and it rammed you ship, shoot the f'ers!! Wish we could have just shot the Fcker's.. But we couldn't. You stated that the Navy had screwed up. Just like the Army did a few years ago, and just like the AF did here lately.. And what I am saying is the Navy didn't screw up. Like YOU stated we did...
Go back to your, quote "the most easy job out there". I will, and thats probibly why I probibly make more than you, get more respect from my fellow service man than you, and NOT GET MY PANTIES IN A TWIST OVER SOMETHING SO STUPID AS THIS... Like you.. Ha ha..
Hope you have a wonderful day. I will have a wonderfull day, thank you.
Last edited by crazylane; 07-25-2008 at 10:24 PM.
I am from a town not to very far from Albuquerque.. If I ever met you somewhere. I'd buy you a beer...
07-25-2008, 11:37 PM
#20
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I just want to say FU to all of you who are saying that the Military is getting " TOO RELAXED". Every single branch of the Armed Forces are streched very thin right now and we are doing twice the work with half the people, which means that for everyone of you who are sitting there right now in your nice little AC'ed cubicales at work from 9 to 5, why dont you all try going into work at 5AM for 3 days working 12 hour shifts, then switch it up to 5PM for 3 days working 12 hour shifts and you tell me that your circadian rythem isnt really screwed up. Second of all yes we are hearing alot about the AF because of the Nuke issue a while back. I do remember hearing alot about the Army and their attention to detail when they shot one of their own guy a couple years ago(Patt Tillman). I also remember hearing alot about the Navy and their lax security after the USS Cole was blown up.
So with all that being said every single branch has had its share of mistakes in the past and they have all learned form them. Now its the AF's turn to learn from them, not sit here and take a pounding from the peanut gallery. Every branch has heard enough from all of you who love standing outside of the post's, base's, and installations protesting the war. If your not willing to stand behind our troops, here's a f'ing great idea, try standing in front of them! Or even a better idea, if you dont like the way things are going, go sign up, put your money where your mouth is and change things. Or how about this why dont you talk to you Senator or Congressmen, you elected them and they speak on your behalf. If by chance your Senator or Congressmen is a tool, or and idiot, and they arnt trying to change things, then chances are you are the tool or idiot that elected them and its your fault anyway.
Final thought, i would never put down another branch of the Military or talk down about them, we have all made mistakes and learned form them, we have to have each others back. God knows that the media and the public doesn't. Lets skick up for each other and not put each other down for our mistakes.
So with all that being said every single branch has had its share of mistakes in the past and they have all learned form them. Now its the AF's turn to learn from them, not sit here and take a pounding from the peanut gallery. Every branch has heard enough from all of you who love standing outside of the post's, base's, and installations protesting the war. If your not willing to stand behind our troops, here's a f'ing great idea, try standing in front of them! Or even a better idea, if you dont like the way things are going, go sign up, put your money where your mouth is and change things. Or how about this why dont you talk to you Senator or Congressmen, you elected them and they speak on your behalf. If by chance your Senator or Congressmen is a tool, or and idiot, and they arnt trying to change things, then chances are you are the tool or idiot that elected them and its your fault anyway.
Final thought, i would never put down another branch of the Military or talk down about them, we have all made mistakes and learned form them, we have to have each others back. God knows that the media and the public doesn't. Lets skick up for each other and not put each other down for our mistakes.
it just seems as though you're trying to play this down. there will probably be some housecleaning coming shortly