BigT2002

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure how many of you have thought about this, but I was reading another board and it really hit me when someone was asking about good questions to ask a 3-star.


Why is it that the Officers above us push for education so damn much, yet the only places that enlisted people (for the most part) can attend are either Distance Learning or 3-tier schools. To get time off to actually attend a major university requires you to either take leave, night classes (which would make the degree almost impossible), or hope you have great leadership who will work with you in some shape or form. Meanwhile, our officer counterparts can/will get some major TDY's for a few years to obtain their Masters/Doctorates from major universities to include Ivy League or even their Alma Mater's.

My example:

I'm a 24 year old SSgt in the USAF, I work almost 64 hours a week due to manning issues and with our exercises we always do. I'm attending American Military University in the hopes I will be able to get my Bachelors in something relevant for when I get out. I have obtained my CCAF and the AU-ABC program they have set up only goes through this lovely distance learning schools. Meaning, my degree compared to someone from say.... University of South Carolina is almost null in void.

My OIC (a LTC) received his Bachelors from the Academy and I would later find out from him received his Masters, while attending, from Stanford...yet he has never left Active Duty to pursue this degree.

Upon further research of many Flag Officers, most have higher degrees than their Bachelors from esteemed institutions, that from my knowledge of people who attends those types of schools, require them to actually attend class there and nothing can be done over the internet or snail mail.

So with all this pushing, why aren't we being alloted the opportunity for the same things they receive? Right now, I think only 5% of those who even apply for that SOAR and all those other types of programs ever get accepted. We all have an $80K GI Bill coming next year, why can't I just hit that up and go "TDY" for my Bachelors and either come back as enlisted and continue my service or if the military needs me as an Officer I am eligible for that.


Thoughts?

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

1. Many officers receive their masters degrees from the same schools they push enlisted guys to go to. I have seen many that got their masters from online programs.
2. Your first obligation is to the military mission, not your education.
3. As for officers getting to go TDY for a few years to finish their higher education but not letting enlisted do so, that is an excellent question to ask a 3 star.
4. Many online/distance learning programs are fully accredited by the same regional accrediting sources as major schools.

PotentialZ28

make sure you understand that they pay back there time, they allow them to go to school and then they pay it back in service. The LT i work with is getting ready to get out and she has to pay back money for the education the AF gave her. We get education for free.

BigT2002

iTrader: (2)

1. I have too, but many of the upper tier guys got em from a real college
2. Very true and I agree totally. However, then how they are getting away with it as Officers?
3. I don't know what he said
4. True, but what about in the civi world though?

1gen

iTrader: (1)

I dont know about airforce but I'm doing army rotc right now and there are a lot of people in there doing green to gold (enlisted to officer but they get thier degree). This requires another 4 year re-up as well for them though and they dont leave active duty. I was talking to a brigade nurse today about career paths and she said that if you commission as a nurse you'll have to work for a couple years in a hospital and then as 1lt or cpt you can go to specialization such as Nurse Anesthetist in the middle of your obligation this means taking about 2 years off to go to an Army taught school. This is highly encouraged but is highly competitive and you owe 6 years after you get out of this school, making your old contract null and void. Also, if you do the time off for school thing when you owe time after that you dont get a GI Bill until after you serve that time back

BigT2002

iTrader: (2)

I think most of the departments have these type of incentives in place but its so damn competitive among enlisted people its not even funny. Reason being is your going to get your bars. However, why can't I just go to school and come back enlisted like I was? I have my GI Bill to pay for school, why not allow more members the opportunity to get their degree and come back into the military with better ideas? Or are we beginning to mesh the boundaries that separate enlisted from officer?

Urban Legend

iTrader: (5)

The Army allows Officers to go to college full time for a degree completion. Keep in in mind that the time off is not free. Everyday that the Officer takes for college must be paid by giving back 3 days of service. I took 18 months to finish my degree, and now I owe the Army 54 months of service.

This program is called the " Degree Completion Program."

I would ask the General why can't Enlisted soldiers participate in this program? Maybe a test pilot is in order.

bballr4567

iTrader: (5)

At my unit you can take as much as 6 months of active duty time for going to school. Meaning in 6 months we can basically do nothing but go to school. You are required to keep a military appearance and preform PT on your own but you just go to school full time.

At Ft Campbell a community college actually comes onto post to teach and they offer shortened classes. IE a semester class actually takes 2 months to complete. All you have to do is sign up through EArmyU.com and get your commander to sign off on the tution assistance.

BigT2002

iTrader: (2)

I would take that any day of the week!

J2Pharren1

iTrader: (1)

We have the same thing on Ft. Lewis, but I believe what BigT is talking about is the time to actually go to college. As an operator, I really doubt he has the time for even a 2 month class, but if he were an officer he could be afforded the opportunity to put his service on hold to finish school.

Awake455

I'd love to finish my degree. BELIEVE me, I would really love to. Hell, I'd reup for a couple more years even if I could take a couple of semesters of full-bore college classes in between deployments. I'd be fighting tooth and nail to get in the front of that line.

However you are enlisted, like me. We are property. A bachelor's degree...at least one that is of any value from a decent college, is of no use to someone kicking in doors and mopping floors. Not of much more use to someone telling another piece of property to do the same. Now officers who are responsible for and sign for property like you and me...they need these degrees. They need these degrees that are from the esteemed institutions of higher learning, not from some online college such that the diploma is worth little more than the paper it was printed on.

Oh, you can get a degree just don't expect it to be of much value...and much like any relationships with other humans don't think it is a priority in your life.

Letting an enlisted have 6 months to finish a useful degree would mean they are bettering themselves for something beyond the military. The military has no interest in doing anything that will directly improve the lives of soldiers after they leave...beyond their basic job skills used by the military.

jmill96Z

iTrader: (3)

If you've been in long enough, you would remember the AF used to highly encourage the Boot Strap Program. It is exactly what you are talking about that the Army does for the degree completion, and I imagine what the O's in the AF get to do.

LS1_Disciple

iTrader: (1)

Just a thought here. The military right now is finding itself with enlisted folks who are often very well educated. I don't remember the percentages, but the percent of enlisted with Bachelor's and above is more than at any other time in history. On the other hand, the officer corps has had to have at least a Bachelor's for quite some time now.

So it appears we're at a transition point now where enlisted folks are actually more interested in pursuing advanced degrees. The military has long-established programs for officers, but hasn't ever really invested much in similar enlisted programs because the interest wasn't there (or at least didn't appear to be). And again, remember the military uses officers as instructors at it's service academies, for which they need advanced degrees.

It's possible they've got some things like this coming down the pipe for enlisted folks, but I'm sure we all know how long it takes the military to actually change the way it operates

CALL911

iTrader: (17)

The push for higher education is felt on both the E and the O side of the fence. From what I have personally seen, niether have a better opportunity than the other to pursue it given the same career field. This can vary between jobs, but in general, some career fields are so demanding that it may be next to impossible to go to school while serving. Others may give you all the time in the world and the only thing needed is your effort. I had a job that was in between. It was a lot of work, a lot of TDY's that did not allow time for school, and yearly deployments. But I still managed to take online classes, classes when I was home in the evenings, and sacrificed almost all of my free time (my wife hated it), but I got my bachelors degree in about 2 years (at one point in time I was taking over 18 credit hours a semester).

My point is, try to not feel like they are hosing you specifically. If you get the chance, go to school. The effort is worth the reward.

sparky1397r

don't you mean the opposite college boy?

CALL911

iTrader: (17)

No I meant what I said (I think you understand it anyways, uless you are used to speaking like Yoda). The effort of going to school even when it is not convienent will pay off/reward you in the end when you have the degree.

sparky1397r

really?

what you are trying to say is the reward is worth the effort it takes to get there. saying it the other way around doesn't make sense at all.

BigT2002

iTrader: (2)

You are correct Sir and you are right I can barely even take online classes with the **** we do. Too much to keep up with and the constant "you'll be leaving soon don't take anything b/c you probably won't have time to do it when your gone" attitude of those above ya.

It is the #1 reason I am getting off Active Duty next year to go back to college. I don't really want to do it per say because I do like what I do and with the economy its even harder to do. Why I wish they would just let us go and do our thing and get it done in 2 1/2 years with accelerated (year long school instead of the summer off) time and then come back and give the time back if needed.

BigT2002

iTrader: (2)

I know man, but this is something I would like to see Armed Forces wide though. I don't look at it as "me" but as "us." You don't think the Army/Marines, who are having trouble with recruitment goals, would benefit from having a program where you spend 2 years active (to get the GI benefits) and then can go to college for 3 years, maintaining all military things to include an annual PT Test, and come back and serve 3 more years with their degree and a head full of knowledge? And its not like the entire military would be going to school, hell probably only 10% of enlisted members across the board would do it anyways. I know a lot of ppl who are staying in for 10 just so they can transfer the benefits to their kids or spouse.

325trooper

iTrader: (2)

Yes, and it's a good program, but when you get out you may find a degree from Central Texas College or whichever junior college at the ed center doesn't hold alot of weight. Every major college has active duty officers attending TDY. Enlisted get the ed center, if they are very lucky.