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Old 03-10-2009, 06:37 AM   #1
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Default PayPal strikes again!!!

like cajun i wasnt sure were to post this thread but heres there story anyway....i was selling something on ebay...it was new but the package had been opened and the shrink wrap was gone. I clearly stated this in the auction and also stated that I do not accept returns unless i send the wrong item. well when th ebuyer got it they said they wanted their money back because the item was open...they kept giving me a bunch of **** so i said take it up wih paypal because its not my fault you didnt read the description or return policy. So guess what, they did take it up with paypal and guess who paypal decided would get a full refund including original shipping and all fees??? that dumb **** that didnt read the description...it pisses me off because i did everything right and still end up getting screwed because of some *** hole and a shitty company...im canceling my account today!!!...oh and if anyone is interested the persons email is r little muel @ aol .com without the spaces of course...
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:49 AM   #2
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they got the money back? or your account showed negative? You gotta put the money straight into yuor bank account as soon as you get it. But that fucked up. You should call and raise hell for 40 days and 40 nights. Tell them the guy didnt ship you the item back too
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:22 AM   #3
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Bitchin to them won't do any good. You'll just get the automated reciting of thier user rules and regulations.
As long as you understand that eBay and paypal set thier business up so that they are judge, jury, and executioner in EVERY case, you can roll with them without regret. Most people have a problem with that. And therein lies the problem.
I've posted before that eBay OWNS paypal. It is EXACTLY like a mortgage company owning a non federally regulated bank and then railroading all thier clients to use thier bank. This is illegal. But ebay and paypal are for some reason allowed to operate like this nontheless.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:33 AM   #4
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You do know that if you ask your buyer to take it up with PayPal, that your return policy no longer applies right? If PayPal gets involved then you are asking the buyer to take other means to resolve the situation other than whats listed in eBay. PayPal does not return a partial amount for eBay purchases, the buyer is covered for the full amount now ONLY for eBay purchases though. Also general rule of thumb is MOST not as described cases are going to be in the buyer's favor, the buyer will be asked to ship the item back for a refund.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:44 AM   #5
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well i dont have any money in the paypal account now just the bank account i use....and i dont plan on giving any money back either
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_Rapitis View Post
well i dont have any money in the paypal account now just the bank account i use....and i dont plan on giving any money back either
Was the money already returned to the buyer, or is the case awaiting the buyer to return the product to you and have the funds been placed on hold or do you have neg. balance in your PayPal account right now? If you do not have the money to return to the buyer, your PayPal account will remain negative and you will eventually be sent to a collection agency for the amount, just wanted to let you know.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:03 AM   #7
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if i never receive the item then i cannot return the money...and its negative right now...
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:21 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Nick_Rapitis View Post
if i never receive the item then i cannot return the money...and its negative right now...
this is correct the buyer has to provide a tracking number showing delivery to your address, and pay to have the item returned back to you in order to receive a refund. The only instance where this may differ, is if the buyer files a chargeback with there credit card company. The reason its negative is b/c you withdrew the funds to your bank and when a case is file the funds are taken and placed on hold, so if no funds are available you will have a neg. balance.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:25 AM   #9
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what about the original shipping and all ebay fees and all that? i get screwed out of em?
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:37 AM   #10
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replied to your pm
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 108dragon View Post
At least they have to jump through some hoops to get a refund. Still sucks a$$ though. Nick listed the item "accurately" and ALL the terms as such and is still getting the s*** put to him over it. I guess his only mistake was telling the buyer to get paypal involved.. the ol' judge/jury/executioner thing again.
btw, no, you will not be reembursed any ebay, paypal, shipping, overdraw, or any other incurred fees.. whether you or paypal incurred them. What? You didn't read your "user agreement"? Your user agreement allows paypal/ebay to tie up your funds in limbo indefinately. If you're lucky you might get a "sorry for your inconvenience", but even that is doubtful.
Just be thankful the buyer didn't claim he never received the item. It gets even lovelier when that happens. The burden of proof is on you and your funds are tied up till the buyer claims that he received the item... whether he actually did or not.
You my friend are informing people of a TON of incorrect information once again and the miss conception of how paypal actually works gets comments like this posted everywhere, therefore people believe it. For people that do not work here and are not avid paypal users you will never understand how often this company changes. For one, in a non receipt case all you have to do is provide valid tracking as a seller to the address listed in the receipt of the payment, ship the item within 7 days of receiving payment, anything over $250 also requires signature confirmation and tracking must show delivery. If you follow those steps you will be covered for non receipt cases, PayPal has not and will never just sit and wait till the buyer says they have it. The only time that happens is when you ship internationally and you can not track those packages online so they must confirm with the buyer if the item has been received or not. Also paypal can only hold funds for up to 180 days, at which point an email is sent saying your remaining available funds are open for withdrawl.

Also when I viewed the item in question on this thread, he took a copy and paste description of the item he was selling, then also inserted his own description below that. His description did contradict what the copy and paste description was. Generally not as described cases will be won in a buyers favor but not always. In this case the buyer is responsible for returning the item for a refund and providing valid tracking. I'm not saying Nick isn't a good guy by anymeans I'm sure he is, this is just what i viewed when I looked at things.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:08 AM   #12
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Can you close your PayPal account down and reopen it under a different email about a month later or so or is your "banking info" flagged?
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:12 AM   #13
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Can you close your PayPal account down and reopen it under a different email about a month later or so or is your "banking info" flagged?
Not sure what you are asking here, you are still responsible for any neg. balances that occur on a closed account, and the account wont be able to be closed with a neg. balance. You could attempt to open another account, but that account may be flagged and linked to the other one, therefore the new one may be restricted from use until the other account was taken care of.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:12 AM   #14
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to put it in simpler terms...say i was selling a strut tower bar...i have never used the piece but i did take the nuts out of the box and plan on keeping them...if i put the manufactureres description which states that all hardware is included but then in my own description on the same page say that the nuts have been removed from the package but the strut tower bar is still new and unused i am not contradicting myself by any means...it is perfectly clear what is being sold...if the buyer doesnt understand it then they shouldnt buy it or at least ask questions before buying it...its as simple as that...
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:16 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_Rapitis View Post
so by using "copy and paste" description and then clarifing in my own description that the item was opened one someone was used i contradict myself? no, thats not the case to anyone with half a brain...the copy and paste description was the description on the back of the case. i clearly stated that the item i was selling no longer meets that description...its the buyers fault he didnt read that part...thats ok, you paypal people are full of it and dont care about the people who have accounts with you...my lawyer is gonna have a field day with this...i hope you guys have as much fun once he gets involved...
Actually yes you did, in the copy and paste description is says:
LIMITED EDITION - Three New "Halo 3" Multiplayer Maps Be one of the first to experience the Mythic Map Pack from Bungie which includes three new maps, Assembly, Orbital and Sandbox

in your description is says:
It comes with three different codes however the halo 3 mythic map code has been used. Happy Bidding!

The copy and paste description says it comes with all three, your says it now comes with only two since one has been used. Don't ask for assitance if all your going to do is get upset. Also you can have fun with your lawyer over a $69 item.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:17 AM   #16
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As a merchant for the last 11 years...

The merchant, vendor or seller usually will end up being responsible.
This is the way banks and card lenders have the system set up.

1.) The buyer only has to deny the charges, 2.) claim they never received the merchandise or 3.) claim the merchandise wasn't as promised.

The buyer legally has 180 days to do so.

I know it's unfair to a legitimate seller but these stipulations were put
in place because of all the fraud over the last few years.

This not only protects the buyer, IT ULTIMATELY PROTECTS THE BANKS
AND CREDIT CARD COMPANIES AS THEY WILL GET THIER MONEY REGARDLESS.

I know it sucks but that's the way it is .... END OF STORY.



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Old 03-10-2009, 10:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_Rapitis View Post
to put it in simpler terms...say i was selling a strut tower bar...i have never used the piece but i did take the nuts out of the box and plan on keeping them...if i put the manufactureres description which states that all hardware is included but then in my own description on the same page say that the nuts have been removed from the package but the strut tower bar is still new and unused i am not contradicting myself by any means...it is perfectly clear what is being sold...if the buyer doesnt understand it then they shouldnt buy it or at least ask questions before buying it...its as simple as that...
I do agree that your description is very easy to understand, but paypal is VERY cut and dry on these cases, if it states two different things just as in your auction, its instant win for the buyer. Anyone with common sense would understand your listing.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miller456 View Post
You my friend are informing people of a TON of incorrect information once again and the miss conception of how paypal actually works gets comments like this posted everywhere, therefore people believe it. For people that do not work here and are not avid paypal users you will never understand how often this company changes. For one, in a non receipt case all you have to do is provide valid tracking as a seller to the address listed in the receipt of the payment, ship the item within 7 days of receiving payment, anything over $250 also requires signature confirmation and tracking must show delivery. If you follow those steps you will be covered for non receipt cases, PayPal has not and will never just sit and wait till the buyer says they have it. The only time that happens is when you ship internationally and you can not track those packages online so they must confirm with the buyer if the item has been received or not. Also paypal can only hold funds for up to 180 days, at which point an email is sent saying your remaining available funds are open for withdrawl.

Also when I viewed the item in question on this thread, he took a copy and paste description of the item he was selling, then also inserted his own description below that. His description did contradict what the copy and paste description was. Generally not as described cases will be won in a buyers favor but not always. In this case the buyer is responsible for returning the item for a refund and providing valid tracking. I'm not saying Nick isn't a good guy by anymeans I'm sure he is, this is just what i viewed when I looked at things.
You are full of horses***. The "user agreement" covering this states that I have to send the item by EXPENSIVE ebay defined shipping method, which as often as not, the buyer DOES NOT want to pay for and opts out of. And this was the case in my situation(s). The package shipped from Colorado to Tennessee... not internationally. It took 14 days to get there by the shipping method the BUYER insisted on. I provided tracking information, ALL of my email correspondance with the buyer, and proof of my shipping of the item and I STILL had to wait until the buyer stated that the item had arrived before the case was closed and my account brought out of the red. And your definition of "covered" is "ebay won't put the s*** to you". Not "covered" in the sense that ebay and paypal will have your back.
In Nick's case, he may have pasted a description. But his secondary description contradicted the first only in modification of what was there and his terms for sale. This is OBVIOUS from his posts here. I don't have to see the listing to know that much. Obviously, the buyer didn't bother reading the entire listing or ordered/purchased the wrong part and wanted a refund...which was also addressed in the listing.
Either way, paypal has no business interfering with a process that it can ONLY negatively effect. What? You think you helped Nick tying up his funding? Paypal told me that they will only reimburse the buyer what they can collect from the seller. If this is the case, then this buyer will receive what? You have effectively helped WHO? And if paypal can only tie up funding for 180 days, this is a recent change. And probably only then because it was litigationally forced.
And if I am believed, it is only because I say what I do and then back it up with evidence. I have not stupidly deleted anything from my computer or hotmail. I keep files from my auctions (buying and selling) from as far back as 1998.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearcatt View Post
As a merchant for the last 11 years...

The merchant, vendor or seller usually will end up being responsible.
This is the way banks and card lenders have the system set up.

1.) The buyer only has to deny the charges, 2.) claim they never received the merchandise or 3.) claim the merchandise wasn't as promised.

The buyer legally has 180 days to do so.

I know it's unfair to a legitimate seller but these stipulations were put
in place because of all the fraud over the last few years.

This not only protects the buyer, IT ULTIMATELY PROTECTS THE BANKS
AND CREDIT CARD COMPANIES AS THEY WILL GET THIER MONEY REGARDLESS.

I know it sucks but that's the way it is .... END OF STORY.



.
Like I said, if you FULLY read the user agreement, can even understand it, and can live with always being on the crap end of the stick to make or save a few bucks, than all is good on planet eBay.
Most people don't understand and can't follow the user agreement because the majority of it involves rules in place to cover paypal and ebay should the situation ever arise for the implimentation of said rules. The fact that the "user" -in most cases- has never had to deal with such altercation is the bases for them not understanding the rules, thier meaning, how they effect the user and when, and why they are even in place. ...ergo, they simply go to the bottom of the page and hit "agree".
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miller456 View Post
I do agree that your description is very easy to understand, but paypal is VERY cut and dry on these cases, if it states two different things just as in your auction, its instant win for the buyer. Anyone with common sense would understand your listing.
regarding your other post...its not about the money, its the principle of it...i can live without $69 ....

regarding this post...if anyone with common sense would understand my listing why am i the one getting screwed??? because thats the policy? then the policy is wrong...its that simple....just cuz its the current policy doesnt mean its the right policy
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:17 AM
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