kylush

Ok, so at the risk of sounding like a total noob I'll finally post this thread. Technically I kinda am a noob, but am 23, have been really into cars since I was about 15 or 16 and am currently finishing up my last semester of college to get my bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering and have took a bunch of engines class and am currently outfitting a dyno cell with a group for alternative fuel testing on diesel engines. So I know a little bit, but never the less, even though I've reasearched and read all the stickies I can't find clear answers to my questions.

I havn't been posting on here cause I've been a dirt poor college kid so I havn't had any money to do anything to my car but now I finally have a job lined up and will be graduating so I will have a little bit of funds to try make my dreams a reality. I think it is best to go at things like this with a defined plan of action instead of just adding bolt ons and things with no rhyme or reason as you get the money, and then changing your mind and having to replace parts later. I've done this on other projects and been out money because I bought things that in the end I didn't need.

Anyhow, enough with the pointless rambling. The qualities I want this car to have when I get done with this are:

1. 700-750whp
2. AC and all "creature comforts" still in tact
3. Still get "decent" highway fuel milleage (Like 20mpg would be awesome)
4. Be dependable enough to be a daily driver, and be able to take it out and rip on it a little without having to really worry that much about breaking. Also, be able to drive it to the track, run a couple really nice passes, and then drive it home with the ac blowing cold air and the stereo blasting.
5. Do this all in the most cost effective (not to be read cheap) way possible while still doing it right

Now I'm not interested in nitrous, simply because I don't like the idea of not having the power when the bottle is empty and having to constantly drive somewhere and fill the thing when it runs out.

I have had some forced induction cars, mainly 4 cylinders in the past and forced induction really interests me. One of the main things I'm trying to figure out if it would be better to go with a supercharger, turbocharger, or just a really built up NA application.

One of the things I was thinking with the supercharger vs. turbocharger setup is the highway fuel milleage. I know turbocharged vehicles can still get pretty good highway mileage while just cruising not in boost but I don't know about supercharged ones. The supercharger always causes parasitic losses through it's belt drive, but I would imagine they're not as bad while not in boost either, but I still think they would be more than the losses caused by the backpressure of the turbine, making them less efficient. Also, for achieving these power levels FI would it be better going with larger displacement or just running more boost? Also, what compression ratio would be good for a boosted application such as this? I was thinking like 9 or 9.5:1 but I'm not sure. What other things would really be needed to achieve these goals with the FI route? Heads? Intake? Cam?

Going the NA route for sure would require a larger displacement motor I'm thinking. Also, would more displacement effect highway mileage? Theoretically in my mind it really shouldn't since the aerodynamic and rolling resistance of the vehicle, and therfore the power required to cruise at a constant speed, shouldn't change. The only thing that I could think of is that larger pistons/cylinder bores would generate more frictional losses and that might contribute to it, but I wouldn't think it would be much. The one thing I was thinking with this route is that it would probably require a big cam that would shift the efficiency range of the motor into a higher rpm range which would be bad for highway mileage. Am I right or wrong? Anything else to add?

Also, what internals would be required to run at this power level dependably. I'm thinking pistons, rods, and maybe a different crank, but what ones would be able to stand up and be dependable at this power level? I've looked through lots of stuff on Callies, Oliver, Eagle, and other companies and they list all kinds of stuff about the different alloys but nothing really that can be used to figure out what kind of power it can stand up to, and for good reason too I'm sure they gotta cover their butts. Does anyone know what kind of bottom end components would be good for these power levels?

Other things I was thinking would be needed, different rearend, not really sure on this was thinking probably a Ford 9 inch, any input or other suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated. For a trans I was thinking the 4L80E. I've read on here that these can handle up to 800hp in stock form pretty dependably so I'm thinking that would be good for my goals. Maybe add a shift kit, and would be running like a yank 3800 stall with a good cooler of course. Let me know if this would be a good choice.

Are there any other things I'm forgetting? Would I need to replace the stock driveshaft? Also, If anyone knows of good options for tuning with a 98 ECU or if just swapping it with a newer one and using that to tune would be better let me know.

Anyone who actually reads all of that and helps me clear some of this stuff up it would be greatly appreciated. My head is spinning trying to find all this info, hopefully this thread doesn't just confuse me more. I have no problem spending money to do it right, I just don't want to spend money that I don't need to be spending to achieve the goals I want. Just don't want to be randomly throwing money at it. Thanks in advance for the help.

jimbo98z

iTrader: (3)

-Low compression built motor (Go big, 418 LS3 if you can)
-Turbo specific cam
-Turbo(s)
-Intercooled (you would likely lose A/C)
-4L80
-9"
-Aftermarket d/s
-Suspension upgrades
-Fuel System
-Cage or at least a bar

Make it happen lol

hitmanws6

iTrader: (20)

Wow... where to begin with this. 700 hp and daily driver dont mix. Ill break down my friends setup for you , his is making 700rwhp, 600 rwtq before methanol.

LQ9
Stock Crank, forged rods/pistons
EPS custom cam
D1SC Procharger running 18lbs i believe
FMIC
Longtubes/2.5 TDs
Built T56
Stock 10 bolt

Or you could buy a crate LS9 and throw a cam in there, would take a lot of guesswork out of your power goals

TrippyJoey

iTrader: (1)

Your main problem with that much power on a dd would be being able to transfer all that power to the ground. Built tranny, hd driveshaft, and a strong rear end, not to mention some sticky tires.

What are the specs on the cam, if you don't mind me asking?

slingshot928

You can easily have a 700 hp if you build it right. A rear end, suspension, and transmission are a must for it though. So putting a bunch of money in the motor and not the rest will only cause headaches.

I am in the same boat you are, I am a phd student in chemistry, my brother and my dad are engineers.

This is my plan for my 93 z28 (93k miles) when I graduate:

LQ9 - Iron Block re-sleeved to 427, LS7 or some crazy heads, Victor intake with accufab throttle body
Callies Crank, Rods, some kind of forged pistons (too many out there to list)
Custom Hydraulic Roller cam so no valve adjusting after startup...more streetable.
T56
Strange S60 - So I can do clutch dumps without anything breaking, the 9.75" ring gear would be great.
Billet Specialties Street Lites -15*4 in the front, 15*10 in the back
One humongous hair dryer!
Run with all accessories, including A/C

Can it be done, yes, but with lots of money..hopefully after a few years I can accomplish this goal.

One note, post in the proper section and there will be more qualified answers. Many posts on this site are a wish list such as mine, listen to the people that have actually done the work and it produces that power. 700 hp has been done, just take a look around before you dive into the project.

garygnu

knowledge is free, but it is worth alot.

kylush

Ok, serious question here, what are your reasons for saying 700hp and a daily driver don't mix? I'm just kinda wondering because I have heard people talk about numerous high hp setups with these motors, especially with the boosted setups that say they still get decent milleage, have all creature comforts and drive like they came that way from the factory so why would it be out of the realm of possibility for a DD? Nelson Racing Engines come to mind, they build setups (pretty elaborate and expensive ones) all the time with over 1000hp that retain pretty much full streetability.

Yes obviously on the street, with street tires, this will most likely be a problem. This only should really be a problem when rodding on it though. By a daily driver I don't mean something I'm gonna take out and do WOT pulls every single day on the street, I just want a 700hp car that I can still drive back and forth to work if I want, and make little 2-3 hour road trips with while still retaining good hwy milleage, and take out and really have fun with when I want and throw some sticky tires on and head to the strip every once in awhile.

Yes, I'm planning on doing a rearend, suspension, and transmission. Heres a dumb question. Why do so many people go with the LQ9 iron block? I've seen alot of people resleaving it to larger displacements too. Can't you resleave the aluminum LS1 block and with the right rotating assembly get up to 427ci? I was under the impression that you could and I would think this would be better because you would still have the nice light aluminum block. Maybe it gets too weak? What Callies crank and rods are usually used for this hp level? Also, what section would have been the right one to post this in? I looked for awhile and it doesn't really completely fall into internal or external engine, or forced induction, or fuel injection, or any of the sections I saw. Where should I have put it?

99FormulaM6r

iTrader: (2)

I think one of the main reasons that people use the LQ9 is because the iron block is more durable than the aluminum block, especially with FI. If you want to make that much power reliably and for a long time, it might not be a bad idea to just get the iron block. To cut down on weight, you can always get a lighter weight K member and such up front.

chasgiv3

iTrader: (1)

I don't personally recommend the LS1 for boosted applications. I just don't see it having enough strength to handle the dynamic compression ratios developed from Turbocharging. Short term it will work but long term with complete reliability means the iron block. I recommend the LQ4 block only because it's cheaper around these parts to pick up at a decent price. Rotating assembly should be done on whatever motor you choose. I've heard folks running stock parts also in these iron blocks with great success but I'd rather do it right the first time and not worry about things going bust!

From a transmission standpoint I see no reason why you couldn't re-use the stock transmissions at that level. 6-speed built with a good clutch or the auto built with good parts should hold it fine. Chromemoly drive shaft and a built 12 bolt or 9 inch should have you covered.

Now trying to fit a decent size turbo in the engine bay with the A/C and everything else is a work of art. I didn't try it at all. I also went with a TH400 because I didn't want any issues at my HP levels with broken transmission parts. Move the battery to the back and put a decent size turbo there and I think you'll make your goals.

bad_408_vert

iTrader: (6)

The reason 700 hp rwhp or even flywheel wont work as a dd because of the set up that you 'd need to make 700 on all motor.

All motor would definitely require a big motor plus big upgrades.

If you go FI route, you can always control your boost so your not driving around always at a high psi but still have the option to crank out ponies.

Another Option is an iron 402 with spray.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

700 crank hp or rwhp? Either way, an aluminum block is more than up to the task of doing this (VA speed has hit 1,800hp with an LS2 block a couple times).

Turbos are best because you can run a boost controller and turn the boost down for everyday driving. Forged bottom end on a 347, 76+mm turbo, E85 would be nice for pwoer and cooling, would definitely make some good power, then you have to get the drivetrain and suspension to match. Kentucky Turbo has a kit that keeps A/C, give them a call.

kylush

Why do you say you have to make 700 on all motor?

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

He's not saying you have to. He's saying that what parts and setup required to make 700hp all motor wouldn't make for a good DD. That would be like a 454ci with ls7-lsx heads or better, biggg cam which would require lots of gear in a manual and a big stall in an auto....ot fun for gas mileage or dd.

kylush

Oh, I see what he's saying now, I just misread his post. I was kinda thinking the same thing but just kinda checking if I was wrong and there was a way all-motor could be made practical for my goals.

sscamaroburn02

iTrader: (14)

lq9 iron block with a D1 or F1 is very common on here. With the right cam and heads you can easily achieve 700 hp. You will also need good suspension in rear, S60 or 9 bolt rear and a good stall. For the rear you can contact Midwest chassis and they can steer you in the right direction. Check the vendor list on right. Some that come to mind are Texas Speed, Late Model Racecraft, Speed inc, Vengeance racing. Suspension setups you can talk with Sam Strano. Lots of good reviews on his stuff.

Good Luck with your build. I'll be starting mine soon as funds come in.

chasgiv3

iTrader: (1)

I had no problem with 700RWHP on an LS1 motor. However after 1 season on it the block was pulled and the cylinder bores were measured. They were no longer true and basically the block was a ticking time bomb. Now you mention the LS2 and I don't really have any experiance with that block. Perhaps it's stronger. Don't know. But if you're looking for low a cost solution that's relaible the LQ4 better fits the bill as far as both go. You do take a slight penalty in weight but the ability to bore it out and still have incredible strength outweighs that negative.

If you want to go really cheap then I'd go LQ4 with stock rotating assembly and stock heads. It gives you a compression ratio of 9.4:1 and therefore you could put more boost through it. It's still plenty strong and probably would get you to your numbers. The other motors just have too much compression for my liking.

Evil 'Bird

700HP DD??? LOL

i got "only" 420hp and i dont even want to DD my car at all.....my big cam, not great for cold start ups and sitting with the a/c on in traffic.... you would have to go FI

rosey

iTrader: (13)

Sounds like a tuning problem to me...

To make that kind of power n/a is going to take some serious cubes or revs...either will be expensive and/or not street friendly.

Go start reading up in the forced induction section, that kind of power shouldn't be a problem for a well sorted setup, you'll be able to do it with any base of LSx engine(5.3, lq4/9, ls1, ls2, ls3 etc...) but usually more cubes will let you do it more sedately on pump gas. I would be looking at doing a forged ls2 or 370 lq9 with a 75-80mm turbo and th400 or 4l80e if it were me, but there are tons of different ways to skin that cat.

slo_lt1

iTrader: (2)

LOL .....that is all.

TrippyJoey

iTrader: (1)

He never said it's still in one piece