Exhaust Setup and Emissions Testing
10-02-2010, 08:51 PM
#1
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exhaust Setup and Emissions Testing I want to get my full exhaust done soon, complete with pacesetter LT's and a new Y pipe, but I live in an area that requires emissions testing (Vancouver, BC)
Note: It is only the scanner, not the sniffer.
Should I suck it up and buy some high-flow cats? or try to be sneaky and trick the computer?
What have others done?
Note: It is only the scanner, not the sniffer.
Should I suck it up and buy some high-flow cats? or try to be sneaky and trick the computer?
What have others done?
10-02-2010, 09:58 PM
#2
Since I live in area that does emission testing I'll be running high flow cats when I do my exhaust so you should do the same. The air is a lot cleaner now that cars have cats so lets keep it that way. (By the way I'm not a tree hugger but we can't live if we can't breathe.)
10-02-2010, 11:33 PM
#4
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I want to get my full exhaust done soon, complete with pacesetter LT's and a new Y pipe, but I live in an area that requires emissions testing (Vancouver, BC)
Note: It is only the scanner, not the sniffer.
Should I suck it up and buy some high-flow cats? or try to be sneaky and trick the computer?
What have others done?
Note: It is only the scanner, not the sniffer.
Should I suck it up and buy some high-flow cats? or try to be sneaky and trick the computer?
What have others done?
10-03-2010, 01:02 AM
#5
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some form of it, yes. As far as I know they just take a little mirror and look under the car to make sure cats are present, although I knew a guy who made it through with none whatsoever, just told them that they were tucked up out of sight or some b/s.
10-03-2010, 06:04 AM
#6
LS1Tech Administrator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
Posts: 32,021
Likes: 0
Received 1,471 Likes
on
1,060 Posts
NO sniff, NO visual, NO cats. That's my opinion.
We've had OBD scan only for several years in Chicago now, and I had no problem passing with no cats and custom tuning. I drove in with a loud and camming car and left about 5 mins later with a PASS.
You're buying headers for better performance. I don't see a reason to spend extra money for cats that don't help performance, unless you have a visual or tail pipe emissions test.
We've had OBD scan only for several years in Chicago now, and I had no problem passing with no cats and custom tuning. I drove in with a loud and camming car and left about 5 mins later with a PASS.
You're buying headers for better performance. I don't see a reason to spend extra money for cats that don't help performance, unless you have a visual or tail pipe emissions test.
Trending Topics
10-03-2010, 10:53 AM
#8
It scans the PCM or ECM and can tell if the O2 sensors aren't there or aren't working. Not running cats is against the law, plus as I said earlier they stop cars from polluting the air. RPM WS6 so those are some very good reasons for spending the extra money for them.
10-03-2010, 01:03 PM
#9
LS1Tech Administrator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
Posts: 32,021
Likes: 0
Received 1,471 Likes
on
1,060 Posts
2) Pollution. My daily drivers have cats. The catless cars I've owned are used for recreation, just like most motorcycles. When I see all the Harley guys with pre-cat bikes putting cats on, then I'll think about it.
Last edited by RPM WS6; 10-03-2010 at 01:21 PM.
10-03-2010, 02:08 PM
#10
Headers are against the law in California and not in any other states I know of. And a pre-cat car or bike doesn't require them, but yours does whether it's driven daily or once a month. According to what you said it's against the law to install a cam, yet any shop will perform that work but NOBODY will remove a cat from a car. It seems to me you're just full of excuses with no good reasons or info to support your views
.
.
10-03-2010, 03:14 PM
#11
Modifying your exhaust emissions equipment ie remove cats, move them further downstream (they won't heat up and work as intended) etc is against fed law in Canada afaik! I modded an older f bod pre Ont. Drive Clean and when it came into law for plate tags, I found out my cam was too big to pass! What a pain! If you have visual only (for now!) I would recommend putting cats on or be prepared to have to put them on sometime. The writing is on the wall up here, like it not, the feds will prolly push ALL prov to mandate I/M 240 or similar. Right now you have a choice - its up to you.
10-03-2010, 03:30 PM
#12
Headers are against the law in California and not in any other states I know of. And a pre-cat car or bike doesn't require them, but yours does whether it's driven daily or once a month. According to what you said it's against the law to install a cam, yet any shop will perform that work but NOBODY will remove a cat from a car. It seems to me you're just full of excuses with no good reasons or info to support your views.
.The only True 50 state legal headers are shorty headers for LS1 F-bodies because they don't change the location of the cats. With that said are there ways around it? and are some shops "less strict"? of course, but that doesn't make it truly Legal
10-03-2010, 04:01 PM
#13
LS1Tech Administrator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
Posts: 32,021
Likes: 0
Received 1,471 Likes
on
1,060 Posts
Headers are against the law in California and not in any other states I know of. And a pre-cat car or bike doesn't require them, but yours does whether it's driven daily or once a month. According to what you said it's against the law to install a cam, yet any shop will perform that work but NOBODY will remove a cat from a car. It seems to me you're just full of excuses with no good reasons or info to support your views.
.Relocation of cats is FEDERALLY illegal. That includes 50 of the 50 states. Just because you can pass a local/state inspection with them does NOT make them legal. Don't think for a second that you're 100% legal just because you have LT headers with cats. If you have moved the cats further downstream (as is the case with all LT headers for LS1s), you are not. You are required to keep cats in the FACTORY location. Just having them is not good enough, if you want to meet federal laws.
Please do some research with the USEPA. I know I have. Understand the FTP (Federal Test Proceedure) that all new cars must pass before OE manufactures are allowed to offer them for sale to the public. Also understand that to be federally legal, any modification you make to any emissions controlled passneger vehicle that deviates from factory configuration, would need to pass an FTP and prove that it meets or exceedes the OEM specs.
Furthermore, your cam install example is no different. Any alteration to the factory configuration that increases emissions is federally illegal unless you can prove with a FTP that emissions are not impacted. Will the USEPA crack down on your cammed car? Nearly impossible, but it doesn't change the fact that it's illegal. Additionally, any of the local speed shops around Chicago will remove your cats and install LT headers with an ORY just as they will install a cam. There is no difference federally, it's all technically illegal.
As for my personal vehicles, the only one I currently own without cats is my Nova. Cats were never required on pre-'75 vehicles, so it doesn't "need" them whether I drive the car every day or once a year.
So are those better reasons to support my views? Or still excuses?
Last edited by RPM WS6; 10-03-2010 at 04:18 PM.
10-03-2010, 04:32 PM
#14
^^^^First off, the problem with the cam not being legal was the extra hydrocarbons in the exhaust due to the excessive overlap - the tailpipe emissions were not clean. Obviously the inspector can't see the cam and the cat couldn't clean it up! Some aftermarket stuff actually makes the car CLEANER, but by definition of its' presence on the vehicle make it illegal- I think you alluded to that. Second, the OP needs to check local laws TO HIM ie BC., CANADA, not USEPA, even though the regs may look similar or are being adopted. Context is everything in this case!
10-03-2010, 04:40 PM
#15
Show me the law that says cats can't be moved from the factory location. And I was talking about a shop removing the cat and not installing one, not installing LT's with cats. If the motor is tuned properly after a cam is installed there won't be excessive hydrocarbons unless you drive at WOT 100% of the time. And since the sniffer test is done at low RPM's a car with a cam will pass along as it has cats.
10-03-2010, 04:42 PM
#16
LS1Tech Administrator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
Posts: 32,021
Likes: 0
Received 1,471 Likes
on
1,060 Posts
Not true, here in NC if you go by the books they are illegal and you will fail inspection if you have them. In most cases as RPM WS6 said it is Illegal to move the cats from the factory locations, so by default it makes LT's illegal.
The only True 50 state legal headers are shorty headers for LS1 F-bodies because they don't change the location of the cats. With that said are there ways around it? and are some shops "less strict"? of course, but that doesn't make it truly Legal
The only True 50 state legal headers are shorty headers for LS1 F-bodies because they don't change the location of the cats. With that said are there ways around it? and are some shops "less strict"? of course, but that doesn't make it truly Legal
^^^^First off, the problem with the cam not being legal was the extra hydrocarbons in the exhaust due to the excessive overlap - the tailpipe emissions were not clean. Obviously the inspector can't see the cam and the cat couldn't clean it up! Some aftermarket stuff actually makes the car CLEANER, but by definition of its' presence on the vehicle make it illegal- I think you alluded to that. Second, the OP needs to check local laws TO HIM ie BC., CANADA, not USEPA, even though the regs may look similar or are being adopted. Context is everything in this case!
Agreed on both counts.
10-03-2010, 04:48 PM
#17
TECH Resident
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Joliet Illinois
Posts: 966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It does more then that it checks for any monitors not set and any stored codes. If a code has to do with the PCM like cps tps egr and the list goes on if any PCM codes are set you fail if you have more them 2 monitors not ready you fail not just the O2's
10-03-2010, 04:59 PM
#19
LS1Tech Administrator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
Posts: 32,021
Likes: 0
Received 1,471 Likes
on
1,060 Posts
I really do encourage people to fully understand the laws they are breaking before they break them. Hence the reason why I investigated this years ago myself.
I'm not sure if you're speaking regionally or federally here, but as for our specific region, there is no sniff test of any kind any longer in IL. As for other regions and other styles of testing (idle sniff, I/M240), cam size will be limited if you want to pass. Not every cam will be mild enough to pass, regardless of tuning.
10-03-2010, 05:22 PM
#20
[QUOTE=RedHotG8;13943273]Show me the law that says cats can't be moved from the factory location. Nope, not my job, I'm done with this! I was on board for awhile, you check your local regs and do what you like, it's your perogative. I think RPM is attempting to CONSTRUCTIVELY point the OP and others in the right direction without being combative. Eventually, his patience will wear thin as well...