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Old 06-11-2012, 07:14 AM   #1
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Default SFC's and Torque Converter

Wasn't sure if this would be more suited to the transmission section or the suspension section so I figured it would be best to ask here, but what is the typical/recommended order for doing SFC's and Torque Converters? I plan on having a converter in the 3400-3600 stall range by the end of summer but one of my buddies said to get sub-frame connectors before that. Just want ya'lls opinions on that.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:14 AM   #2
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I'd get a yank
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:18 AM   #3
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SFC's are something for most people should have came on the car from the factory. They are very useful and needed. Get them done sooner, rather than later. Weld in Preferable. I use boxed BMR (Hammertone black).

As for TQ converter as a guy that races, you select your converter as one the last items to optimize the over all package. (Weight, Power, Suspension, Tire). YOu want one that would like a sizeable cam later on. Nothing is worse than understalling a car. But I am a guy who will do the TQ converter last due it matching to the set up. IF you really want one now...

It should be a converter of good quality and High 3000's maybe low 4000's Now this is all in anticpation of the 4LJUNKIE does not eat it self and contaminate the converter. Sometimes you can save them, sometimes not. All depends on the situation and you need to decide if you want to invest the $$$ on something that WILL eat itself at some point.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:24 AM   #4
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I'd get a yank
^ That was absolutely no help and not related to the topic of the thread whatsoever. You fail sir.

But to answer you, I considered Yank, but I want a better range of choices so I'm going with FTI or Circle-D.

Now, let's get back on topic

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SFC's are something for most people should have came on the car from the factory. They are very useful and needed. Get them done sooner, rather than later. Weld in Preferable. I use boxed BMR (Hammertone black).

As for TQ converter as a guy that races, you select your converter as one the last items to optimize the over all package. (Weight, Power, Suspension, Tire). YOu want one that would like a sizeable cam later on. Nothing is worse than understalling a car. But I am a guy who will do the TQ converter last due it matching to the set up. IF you really want one now...

It should be a converter of good quality and High 3000's maybe low 4000's Now this is all in anticpation of the 4LJUNKIE does not eat it self and contaminate the converter. Sometimes you can save them, sometimes not. All depends on the situation and you need to decide if you want to invest the $$$ on something that WILL eat itself at some point.
My car has 2.73 gears and I can't justify spending money on a gear change when I plan on getting a beefier rear unit eventually with better gears then so I had planned on doing the converter first, camming the car next year, something like a TSP 228R, Torquer v2 or custom grind. I want to add the converter to give it a better kick in the pants and help shift extension now while I wait on the rear end. It will be a street/strip car with much more emphasis on the street part. I won't need anything over a 3600 stall.

For the SFC's I was planning on UMI 2 point boxed weld-in red ones to match the car
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:28 AM   #5
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If you plan on launching your car pretty hard before/after the tq converter then I'de go with your buddies advice. If you manage to take it easy then you could probably wait on the SFC's. But I wouldn't wait long, this is a must for our cars. Usually one of the first recommended mods is SFC's, they should have just put these on the cars to begin with. Read up in the stickies about SFC's, those combined with the LCA's you already have will eliminate a lot of twist on launch, all you'll need then is a good tq arm and PHB and you'll be ready to destroy that 10 bolt.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:40 AM   #6
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Read up in the stickies about SFC's, those combined with the LCA's you already have will eliminate a lot of twist on launch, all you'll need then is a good tq arm and PHB and you'll be ready to destroy that 10 bolt.
Hopefully destroying the 10 bolt doesn't ever happen!

I am installing a UMI PHB next week. I'll get a TQ Arm whenever I get the new rear end lol. I'm on street tires too so hopefully the 10 bolt lasts a solid while, at least 2-3 more years!

I may take the car to the track once or twice a year, I may borrow a buddies DR's for those times. From what I've read I'd either flash the converter from idle or stall it up to 1200-1400 and launch and hopefully the 4L60E will be more forgiving on that rear end.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:41 AM   #7
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I have the UMI weld in boxed 2 points, very nice piece. You'll love them.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:51 AM   #8
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I agree with your buddy on doing the SFC before you stall the car. There is definately alot of body twist going on that shows up with the cracked dash pads and hoods not lineing up like they use too. Good luck with your 10 bolt setup.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:28 AM   #9
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SFC should def be first...brace it before you race it!
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:06 PM   #10
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Sfc's should go in before any mods should be done period. Listen to these guys, I git em and would never ever build power in an F body without them. These cars really do twist quite easily and without much effort. That's one of the reasons the car was discontinued. To much power for the design of the vehicle. Sorry if I went off topic.
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:30 PM   #11
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Get some weld in 2pt SFC, they'll reduce body flex, won't cause any clearance issues, and it'll give more flexibility on where you jack the car up.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:10 PM   #12
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Definitely go for some subframe connectors first, and follow that up with a nice torque converter. These cars develop enough squeaks and rattles without any help from performance parts so whatever you can do to make things a bit more solid helps a lot.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:37 PM   #13
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+1 for subframe connectors. I got UmI bolt in 2 points and had them welded later. Defiantly a must have for all f-body's
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:18 AM   #14
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Sounds good. Just need to find someone to weld them up with the suspension loaded. Easier said than done around here
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:52 AM   #15
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Sfc are a must for the first couple of mods done to these cars.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:21 PM   #16
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As some one who added 2 point subframe connectors to his car (current `02 M6 SS): they are useless and do absolutely nothing beside add 40lbs or what ever to the car. All the flex, squeeks and rattles that were there previously are still present. Added them at ~50K miles. If I'd paid more than $70 for them I'd be pissed. I don't have experience with 3 and 4 point units though, although I have read mixed reviews on them too.

The converter on the other hand was the absolute best mod for my previous car (`99 A4 SS). Don't forget the supporting mods though: trans cooler and either a shift kit or reprogramming the shift points and pressures. They really made the car wake up.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt D View Post
As some one who added 2 point subframe connectors to his car (current `02 M6 SS): they are useless and do absolutely nothing beside add 40lbs or what ever to the car. All the flex, squeeks and rattles that were there previously are still present. Added them at ~50K miles. If I'd paid more than $70 for them I'd be pissed. I don't have experience with 3 and 4 point units though, although I have read mixed reviews on them too.

The converter on the other hand was the absolute best mod for my previous car (`99 A4 SS). Don't forget the supporting mods though: trans cooler and either a shift kit or reprogramming the shift points and pressures. They really made the car wake up.
You're just the 2nd person to say anything bad about SFCs that I've ran into. The first was a buddy that installed them on his SS after 80k miles and he said after the install his T-Tops leaked. I assume thats because any damage to the chassis as far as twist already happened. Perhaps thats what happened in your case as well?

My car has 25k miles and I don't believe it has ever been to the track or launched hard (stock converter, 2.73 gears) so it should be pretty straight. Hopefully wouldn't have to worry about any problems installing them
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt D View Post
As some one who added 2 point subframe connectors to his car (current `02 M6 SS): they are useless and do absolutely nothing beside add 40lbs or what ever to the car. All the flex, squeeks and rattles that were there previously are still present. Added them at ~50K miles. If I'd paid more than $70 for them I'd be pissed. I don't have experience with 3 and 4 point units though, although I have read mixed reviews on them too.

The converter on the other hand was the absolute best mod for my previous car (`99 A4 SS). Don't forget the supporting mods though: trans cooler and either a shift kit or reprogramming the shift points and pressures. They really made the car wake up.
Disagree 100% on SFC's

I've had 3 different 4th gens and one of the three was a LT1 car and with even over 100k miles you can tell the difference. Rattles and squeeks may still occur due to you having loose panels or things that have come loose.

There is a method to having them welded in and if that is not followed, it could effect how they work should be plenty out in google land if you want to search for it.

Converters will improve performance no doubt but spend 1k on a converter and even if you do your own labor. Its going to suck if you blow that trans and ruin the converter, happend to quiet a few people out there.

It's up to the owner and he has to like it in the end.

----

Just to add some personal exp. This car I own has 47k on the clock, I added BMR Boxed weld in SFC and UMI Drag bar at the same time (the drag bar is solid but does have some give, good street/strip unit.

I removed before that the front sway. Nothing horrible but noticeable in turns (sloppy as expected) add these two pieces and the car handles on a rail again and very sharp turns. Stiff as hell and feels like it has a front sway. Like said most of it should be due to the stiff rear bar but I had cars that had the front removed and the sfc's and you can absolutely tell.

Any time you solidify a flexible point it runs stiffer. Rod ended suspension, sold TQ arm mounting off the cross member just a few examples. Weld in 6 or 10 point cages/bars

Last edited by BlackScreaminMachine; 06-13-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:24 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by NC98Z View Post
I agree with your buddy on doing the SFC before you stall the car. There is definately alot of body twist going on that shows up with the cracked dash pads and hoods not lineing up like they use too. Good luck with your 10 bolt setup.
This ^^...I did boltons before SFC and cracked the windshield

Weld-in SFC first!!
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BlackScreaminMachine View Post
Disagree 100% on SFC's

I've had 3 different 4th gens and one of the three was a LT1 car and with even over 100k miles you can tell the difference. Rattles and squeeks may still occur due to you having loose panels or things that have come loose.

There is a method to having them welded in and if that is not followed, it could effect how they work should be plenty out in google land if you want to search for it.

Converters will improve performance no doubt but spend 1k on a converter and even if you do your own labor. Its going to suck if you blow that trans and ruin the converter, happend to quiet a few people out there.

It's up to the owner and he has to like it in the end.

----

Just to add some personal exp. This car I own has 47k on the clock, I added BMR Boxed weld in SFC and UMI Drag bar at the same time (the drag bar is solid but does have some give, good street/strip unit.

I removed before that the front sway. Nothing horrible but noticeable in turns (sloppy as expected) add these two pieces and the car handles on a rail again and very sharp turns. Stiff as hell and feels like it has a front sway. Like said most of it should be due to the stiff rear bar but I had cars that had the front removed and the sfc's and you can absolutely tell.

Any time you solidify a flexible point it runs stiffer. Rod ended suspension, sold TQ arm mounting off the cross member just a few examples. Weld in 6 or 10 point cages/bars
Well stated above. Think of the unibody as a thin sheet of plywood. It is strong but will flex and bow. Add 2x4's as a frame and it gets stronger and stiffer.
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