Grusselgrosser

I couldn't really find much on my own.
Just looking for issues to look out for, things to check on the car to make sure I am not getting a lemon, like compression testing. What else would you reccomend? I am looking at spending $8-9,000 on the car. Thanks.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Have you tried a search on this site? There is a ton of info on this topic, many threads covering F-body specific issues for those shopping with limited experience regarding this platform. Here is one recent example of such a thread, it covers a great deal of specific things that you might want to know:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet...s-pleases.html

Firebrian

Review the past 10 months of the "What's it Worth" threads. They have very detailed data covering most of the pitfalls in buying a car....and how to identify the right one at the right price. I know I've posted several pages worth of things to look for. Feel free to post your candidates on the WIW thread.

A compression check is great but I doubt most people go through that much trouble...not that it's a bad thing. The majority look to find an owner(s) that performed the required maintenance at the required times. Those are scarcer than you think. The mileage and cosmetic condition of the car (how it looks) will typically drive the price on >80% of the cars. A well taken care of LS-1 with lower to mid-mileage shouldn't normally have compression issues. $8K to $9K can buy you a pretty sweet, <40K mile '98-'00 Firebird or Z28. If you want to step up to say a 2001-2002 WS6, then $8K to $9K might get you an 80K to 100K mile car. If you're not fussy about the package that wraps around your LS-1, I'd lean towards the earlier years in a more basic Firebird formula, Trans AM or Z28. You can possibly snag a 1 owner, very well taken care of, low mileage car for your $8K to $9K and have far less worries about buying a beat on 80K to 120K mile 2001-2002 that is due for problems. The automatic usually doesn't sport issues as often as a six speed transmission/clutch. While automatics don't seem to be as in demand overall, you do get to somewhat sidestep the issue of worn out of clutches and damaged gears. Again, a caring owner could have taken care of that 6 speed just fine. That's probably not usually the case on a car with 4 or more owners. Shoot for a 1 to 2 owner car if you can....where both owners are identified and it's clear what each did with the car. You can find more information along these lines in the threads on this site. If you're buying a local car (preferred) ensure it gets to a trusted mechanic who can identify big problems with engine, trans, rear end, suspension, wheels-brakes, heating/AC. A car close to needing tires (or having low quality tires), or having AC leaks, or some light whines or odd noises in the drive train can bleed you for thousands later on. Seeing as your from PA you may not have decent weather to adequately test drive any car you look at in Dec-February....certainly not the AC. But relatively few of these cars sell in those months so odds are if you like it today, it will probably still be there in early to mid-March...or whenever clear roads would be available.

If you pull up some of my threads from 2014 I've gone into great detail on what I've learned over the past 3 years of scoping these cars out...and what I should have known 3 years ago before buying my first car (noises in M6's, etc.). I did fine but should have known more. The post RPM WS6 has linked is superb. Nine Ball has a sticky thread on how to price your car in the "vehicle classifieds" forum. The same things apply when buying only in reverse. NC01TA has evaluated a ton of cars that forum members considered purchasing. Reviewing his threads in the "WIW" section would be very helpful too. On top of that, it wouldn't be a bad idea to look at some of the common thread issues in the "transmission, chassis, and suspension" form. Those are the faults and issues you should be on the lookout for...especially with an M6. There are enough of these cars out there to make a good choice...especially from now to March when they go on their annual 5-15% off sale. Good luck and let us know how you're doing.

JDEP162

what he said /\ lol.
seriously tho, what he said nails it.

Grusselgrosser

Thank you guys. Very helpful. I will not be car shopping until next November. Currently have a year left on a lease on a 2012 Civic I leased to have a reliable car while I went to nursing school. I will not lease another car though, waste of money IMO.

Firebrian

That gives you a lot of time to dig into the LS1tech.com site and hit the road to check out cars in your area. I found it helpful to keep an eye on Ebay motors and Autotrader.com to see what most cars are being offered at...vs. what they actually bring. If you're going after an M6 eventually, I'd test drive as many as those as you can over the next year to get a feel for what's feels/sounds right vs. what isn't. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if a number of those cars are still for sale by the time you're ready to buy. One exception is that 1 out of 20 car that is priced very right the first time around and the early bird gets it.

If you intend to buy outright you'll have no problems with any car you consider. If you're going to use financing that could be a problem where the finance company/bank may not even consider a car >10 yrs old. A number of members here have run into that issue and reported on it.

Here's a decent 2 owner 1998 SS with only 37K miles. With 4 hours to go and only at $7400 (no reserve auction). It ought to be worth $9K to $10K. Good deal for someone if it doesn't go any higher.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-SS-Coupe-2-Door-1998-chevrolet-camaro-z-28-ss-coupe-2-door-5-7-l-/251701541806?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3a9a94bbae&item=251701541806&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Grusselgrosser

I was going to try to avoid the 98s because of the connecting rod problems or whatever it was. But that is nice, other than the auto.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

There are no connecting rod problems on the '98s. You might be thinking of the different rod bolts, but this is a non-issue unless you plan to spin the motor well beyond the factory rev limiter. In which case, you'd also have to worry about valve springs (regardless of the model year).

If you review the link I posted above, you will see a summary of the differences between model years.

Firebrian

I actually would prefer an early in the year '98 to avoid the issue of bubbling roof paint. I had a '98 Z28 from 2002-2009 and never had an issue....and it spent a lot of time in the sun baking while at work. Also didn't realize there was a roof paint issue in the following years. In my mind there is more bang for buck in the '98's and 99's due to having seen more depreciation than the later years. The '98's have a more limited production and tend to be much harder to find in nice condition. I suspect in years down the road the 1st year of the 4th gen will get a lot more respect than it does today. Sure, the '98's are rated slightly less in horsepower....though not something you can actually feel when driving. It would be interesting to see which of the years from 1998-2002 have the lowest incidence of M6 problems.

While it looked like the '98 I linked above was going to be a bargain it ended up going for $11,000, which I think was due to bogus bidding. At $6800 two bidders ran it all the way up. One of them placed their bid of $11K at that point. That's not exactly smart imo. The other guy just ran it up and up and dropped out just at $11K. How convenient was that? If it really sold for $11K it would be top-top dollar for such a car. Considering how stingy Ebay bidders are, this kind of bidding sticks out like a sore thumb.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...&showauto=true

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree. To me, this is the single biggest issue to be concerned with, aside from finding an example with the options most important to me. I've gone through the roof replacement on my '02, and luckily back then you could still get a new GM panel and my local dealer did the repair for free. At this point, only used or reproduction panels are available, and the labor involved is a big hassle IMO. It works out well for those of us that prefer the '98s, since they are already cheaper (thanks to some rumors and subjective preferences of many buyers), and then you also save by not having to deal with the roof. Just keep in mind that '98s built in 05/98 or later are potentially subject to the same roof bubbling issue as all the '99+ cars, so if you get a very late '98 you might end up facing the same issue anyway.

Not sure if there is any difference in M6 related issues in the earlier model years, but I definitely prefer the '98 rear end. This was the last year for the Auburn limited slip, with '99+ getting the Torsen LSD. The Auburn is quieter and more "seamless/predictable", for lack of a better word, IMO.

There are a couple other things about the '98s specifically and '98-'99 models in general that I prefer, these are outlined in the link above if the OP wants to review.

For those looking for rare/unique colors, '98 and '99 are the best years to choose from. They had the widest selection of colors and some that are considerably more rare than ones offered in '00+.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Agree that the roof panel bubbling is a major issue when searching for a pristine example. Strangely, neither my or my son's 2000s have the problem. I think mine was replaced by the first owner, as there's a little color bleed out in the paint that doesn't look factory, and the gaps are not perfectly aligned side to side. But my son's shows no evidence like that, and there's nary a bubble.

Firebrian

My 16K mile 1999 SS M6 shows no signs of bubbling anywhere. But, I got a good scare back in late May 2012 when I had it out at an all day Chevy show on an cloudless 85 degree day. I left the car for about 90 minutes to do some peer judging on the other classes. When I returned about 1 PM I saw a pair of 1" wavy lines down either side of the rear sail panel. Holy carp! I immediately took my felt dash pad cover and placed it on the roof. If that can happen in <2 hrs I can only imagine what bubbling could occur after hundreds of hours of exposure, especially when parked. It's never seen that kind of exposure since as I carry a special black cover the width of the sail panel to put over it if need be. Any time the car is out I look for shaded spots to park far from other cars. No problems since. Makes me wish I had gone with an early '98 SS M6 instead.

Grusselgrosser

Hmmm, that gives me stuff to think about what year I want to get. I kind of want to get a 2002 model year if I can, not only because it's the newest, but because it's the last of the 4th gens and is the 35th anniversary edition. My first car was a 1992 RS 25th Anniversary, so I kinda wanted to get another anniversary one.

Grusselgrosser

Btw, it is crazy when I go online to browse how much the automatic LS1s outnumber the M6 ones. It's like a 10-1 ratio.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Yep, and once it starts it's relentless. My '02 got so bad that the bubbles would break open and ooze glue down the back window as I drove down the highway. As a daily driver, that car was parked outside often though.

The earlier models can sit in the sun forever and not have any issues at all. My March-built '98 has spent countless hours in full summer sun over the last decade at car shows, and never even a wave has appeared. It's really a shame that GM screwed this up so badly in the final years of production.

As someone who greatly prefers the automatic, I can tell you that low mileage M6 cars are far more common, at least in my area. Most of the autos were daily drivers and got used a ton more, while many M6s were toys/second cars that received less usage. In recent years I've had a tough time finding low mile A4 cars, but always plenty more M6s. I guess it's always harder to find what you're looking for vs. what someone else seems to be looking for.

Having said that, in terms of original production figures it was usually about a 60/40 split in terms of A4/M6 for the V8 models year by year.

Firebrian

It just can't be anywhere near that ratio unless only automatic owners are selling their cars these days. Keep closer track as you do it and it will come down closer to the 55/45% ratio that came from the factory in 2002 (earlier years might be slightly different). For the 2002 SS anniversary coupes the M6's outnumber the A4's. I could buy the fact that the survival rates of M6's has been lower due to thrashing them into other objects or destroying the drive trains. But, I'd be surprised if the automatics outnumber them by more than 2-1 today (66.6/33.3 survival rates). It's an interesting question though. Now if one considers the numbers of original, tight and totally problem-free M6's out there, that number might indeed be 10-1 vs. the automatics. From the scouting I've done the past 4 years I'd say the automatics outnumber the M6's at all levels (ultra low miles, low miles, mid-miles, high miles, and ultra high miles). But it's not a big enough difference to make a huge difference in price. OK, now to check my hypothesis:

In checking autotrader.com for any LS-1 F-Bodies there are 671 examples nationwide listed with a breakdown of 401 A4 and 208 M6 (62 abstained). Pretty good guess on my part as that works out to be 65.8% vs. 34.2% for any mileage car. When looking at cars with <45K miles it changes to 59.5/40.5. At <30K miles it's 57.8/42.2. So what RPM WS6 states seems to be true that the nice A4's get tougher to find as the mileage drops way off. At <15K miles it's 49.3/50.7 with the A4 being slightly scarcer.

Grusselgrosser

Yeah, maybe not 10 - 1 but it was alot. Just checked on autotrader.com, 1998-2002 Camaro 8 cylinders with automatic - 251, with manual - 126. And that was in the whole USA, on autotrader anyway. With no price cap.

As far as sub $9k ones goes, it was Autos - 82, Manuals - 33

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Same thing happened to my brother this summer. His 02 didn't have it, as it's low mileage and spends most of its life in a garage. But he had it at a car show this summer and then called me after becoming alarmed when he noticed it.

My 02 has it, but not bad - just looks like small rust bubbles under the paint, but no oozing - I think because it's an Oregon car. I noticed it worsen after a day in the sun at a car show this summer ...

That's what makes my son's 00 amazing. It's parked outside 24/7 but shows no evidence of it at all. The panel is perfectly smooth and flat.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Is he (or you) the original owner? If not, it may have also been replaced. When original GM panels were still available (or if you were to get a used OEM one), some of the more experienced shops are able to get them to fit as perfect as the assembly line did.

My local Chevy dealer replaced the one on my '02 back in 2008, they told me they had only done 2-3 others. The job was decent but, like you mentioned about yours, a keen discriminating eye could tell that the fitment was not assembly line perfect.

On the other hand, I know a couple local guys that had them replaced by shops that were a little more careful (or perhaps just more experienced) - fitment was so good that I was not able to tell them apart from an example that still wore its factory untouched panel.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

No, we're not original owners. The car was a trade-in a Toyota dealership back when we bought it. The car is a V6 5spd with the 3800 Performance Package (Y87) so maybe the original owner was into it enough that (s)he noticed the problem and had it taken care of.