Abidar

As the title says, purely speculation, I don't want to be responsible for a rumor and get hunted down by GM, but wouldn't it make sense for GM to reintroduce the Camaro before 2007, or in 2007, the 40th anniversary year? There was a year that there was no Corvette...83? I've never fully believed that the F-body was flushed down the toilet, just put on the shelf to bring back (i'm hoping for an ls2 under the hood). Anyone have any thoughts or real info about this? Just food for thought.

XtinctHawk02

My hunch, s that they will bring the Camaro back to compete with the new Mustang. I really don't see GM taking a back seat, as they see the 05' Stang sell like hot cakes.
But on the other hand, needless to say that the Trans Am, I think is gone forever!
Which is fine by me
Makes my car more attractive!

locosteelersfan

2008 at the earliest, they have no choice.

Whitten

iTrader: (1)

I am going to ask Scott Settlemire about that today if I can find him. I talked to him last night, but forgot to ask him amidst the hustle and the bustle of the new Dick Harrell car getting unveiled.

locosteelersfan

He can't say anything. On other boards he never replies
to any talk of the 5th gen. I take that as a positive cause if
nothing was happening he could say that. If by chance he does slip
which I doubt, don't repeat it. GM fired alot of people for slipping
out C6 info, I heard. Regardless Quebec has the contract through 2007
and there isn't a plant anymore.

Whitten

iTrader: (1)

Well I think that you are right. I talked with him briefely before Ray Sullins Orginal driver of ZL-1 # 1 took a victory lap around the car show. He tpld me and I quote, "I'll tell you what I tell everyone else, just have faith." I for one have faith....and plan on followig his advise to a T.

tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

i just don't think there should be a v6 model anymore. don't get me wrong, i don't hate v6's or anything (i used to own one), but i know a lot of people that don't consider the camaro to be a sports car because it's available in a "slow" version. i think that's stupid to think that, but you can't change everyone elses opinion unless you change the car.

also, a "slow" version is a "cheaper" version; a "cheaper" version is a version that many people will buy just so they can have a "cool" car, and yet not take care of the car the way someone like a corvette owner would. expensive cars are usually taken good care of, and i think the camaro should try and attract that kind of owner, not just your regular ole driver that wants a "cool" car and never intends to wash the car more than once in it's lifetime.

that's just what i think. it bothers me to see 85% of the camaros (and firebirds) out there that are obviously not taken care of in the slightest. it's really a disgrace to other camaro owners. you don't see vipers in shitty condition, or porsches, and rarely do you see corvettes in shitty condition.

then again, if you do make a v8 version only, you won't be able to compete with the new mustangs because they will still have a v6 option.

locosteelersfan

You've got that all wrong though, A successful lengthy stay of
the Fbody need strong V6 sales. Know why Mustang killed them
in sales, most people bought V6's sustaining the platform. Looking
at the stats most fbody sales went to V8s. Actually the biggest selling
F in 02 was an SS, SVT will never be able to say that. The problem is
there wasn't a big enough market segment to for them. Not enough people
who truly want raw power. Even if you wanted a V8 to the average person
the stang was strong enough and more liveable, (no hump on floor etc...)

ChillnV

Its all very sad..I just hope to see this 'future' camaro soon

Whitten

iTrader: (1)

"Just have faith."

John95Z28

Like many of you, I've been pondering why the Camaro's sales figures continued to slump and why it got killed by GM, and in turn what it will take to have a successful comeback. I love my 4th gen Z28 and would love to see a 5th generation return to compete with the 'stang (might as well be in an anniversary year like '07). I think one reason the cars didn't do well is GM wasn't promoting and selling them enough. When I bought my car in '99, I was still considering buying brand new or used, and when I walked into my local GM dealership the sales guy just yawned and said "we don't sell many of those" and for the new sale price on a Camaro I might as well spend a bit more and get a Corvette. Here I am looking to drop $40,000 (Canadian money) on a new car, and he couldn't be bothered to sell me one. It was the same story at the other GM dealership in town; long story short I ended up buying it used from the Mazda dealership in another city.

The other main reason they didn't sell compared to the Mustang is the 'image problem'. For some reason, the 'stang is a more woman-friendly car. Lots of women I've talked to think the Camaro is too "big" for them to handle, and therefore not the car for them. Partly it's the shape; the 4th gen is much more pointy than the Mustang, but I think mostly it's about the length. Both ponycars have a wheelbase in the 101" range, but the Camaro is about 10 inches longer in overall length at 193". I didn't think about this until someone pointed it out to me, but consider how many more women drive Miatas and new Beetles than guys do; it's because of their "cute" and compact dimensions. Now don't get me wrong; I'm not suggesting making the 5th gen Camaro a V-8 Miata, but I think the new car should have about the same wheelbase (101") but much shorter front and rear overhangs, to make the length seem more manageable. Sort of like a C6 Corvette with a back seat.

For better or worse, in some quarters the Camaro / Firebird is written off as a mullet mobile, so part of it's new image makeover should be to attract more women driving enthusiasts. If nothing else, it would liven up the club meetings I also vote for including a V-6 base model, as long as it's a decent powerplant. When GM puts their best foot forward, they can make good products (witness the base V-6 model / LS6 model Caddy CTS). Nobody who drives a 5th gen V-6 Camaro should think to themselves "the power sucks; I should have spent more and got the V-8". A V-6 Camaro should be designed to challenge and beat 95% of the 4-cylinder ricers out on the streets right now. Also, saddling automatic purchasers with only 4 speeds would have to end. If we could get either a 6-speed manual or a 6-speed paddle shifting manumatic / auto as tranny choices, we Camaro faithful would have reason to celebrate. And maybe even an optional IRS, like what's available on the Mustang Cobra?

If only GM would get off their corporate asses and build a car people want to buy, and then actually promote and support their own product! What a concept that would be

ActionJack

'John95Z28' I think you made some good points and agree. The V6 is a needed platform and GM was not promoting the F-Body IMO. I also found it an interesting analogy that women like smaller cuter cars.

As to a Camaro in 2007 (or 2008) on the Sigma-lite platform, I have heard speculation that it is a big possibility and will have the V6 and the V8, with the V8 having two different setups :Z28 and SS.


For GM future 'Possibles' I refer to http://www.gminsidenews.com in the Future product Roadmap since they will typically get inside info. But, as far as I have heard it is still only speculation and No Confirmation of the Camaro revival or the Firebird (Firebird even less likely).

John95Z28

Thanks ActionJack; I appreciate it. And thanks for that link. In a perfect world, it would be great if the new 5th gen car had its own platform, but since we don't live there, it will probably be a shared (Sigma?) platform. I have a sinking feeling that this will force the Camaro to be bigger and heavier than it otherwise should be. The new GTO, for example, is pushing close to 4000 lbs of curb weight. At least it's got that spacious back seat

GM design gurus; if you're listening, is there any chance of having the new Camaro share the Y-body platform with the XLR and the 'vette??

Getting back to the V-6 issue - as much as we associate V-6 Camaros with 'slow' and other unkind adjectives, it really wouldn't have to be that way. Does anybody think the BMW M3 is a piece of crap because it 'only' has 6 cylinders? Of course not. With an aluminum block and heads, roller rockers, an LS1 combustion chamber and camshaft design, and composite intake, a 3.8 litre V-6 could easily make around 300 hp (not to mention shaving some weight off the front end). That'd be plenty for those economy minded folks who don't need the V-8's greater performance.

locosteelersfan

Well, GM isn't going to go through the R/D of that high
output V6. They are in love with the 3800. The bad thing
is to them 3800SC FWD A4=performance cars.
They are looking further into the mid-displacement V8's like
in the SSR. The V6 models basic problem was never power,
it compares to the V6 stang. But the "image" thing is so true.
Mustangs are for chicks. Yes they make Cobras but their bread
and butter are V6 sales for people who just want the look.
V6 Camaro doesn't have that appeal, like said its harder to judge,
hump, sit low, windsheild rack etc, etc.. Face it we make sacrificies
to have a LS1 fbody because of the LS1, but if your not buying a V8
the ford is more pleasant, especially to females.

I just hope that Gen IV and by then Gen V SBC's still are what is going to
be in the next fbod. I expect so since it lowers the overhead spreading the
unit around. And no matter what is considered "high tech" keep the OHV/pushrod

locosteelersfan

Yes but their product lineup is so incrediably boring. They realize
that now hence the "american revolution". Funny how 2 of the cars
featured in the campaign (equinox/aveo) have major percentages of
them built in asia

Abidar

I agree that the product line is incredibly boring. The Corvette is an excellent flagship, especially with the supposed "LS7" with 525-575hp. The really do need a performance car under 30 grand. I personally would be okay if they brought out the camaro for a few years, built up the rivalry with Ford, and then reintroduced the Firebird to put a hurtin on the stang. Dodge is supposed to reintroduce the Charger with one of their HEMIs. I like the concept camaro on GM High Tech's website. It has a retro look while being quite modern. They should do the same for the Firebird. Gimme two of those Camaros in black with LS2 or LS7 engines and I'll be content for quite a while...

John95Z28

I hate to say it, but you make a strong point. GM seems to think that their 90 degree 3.8L V6 is just perfect the way it is, even though it wouldn't be that tough to R&D some high flow heads and intake / exhaust if they wanted to. Even worse is they think everybody loves front wheel drive. All the FWD cars in their lineup seem the same to me. I think our best hope for GM to start designing high-output RWD cars again is if the competition is doing it. Like someone else said: they only do something to make money, and if Chrysler can make money selling hemi engined RWD cars to the average citizen then the General will have to take notice.

If Dodge makes a Charger with their 5.7L hemi, and the new Mustang is selling, then the Camaro will have a better chance to get corporate approval.

locosteelersfan

That's what I mean about spreading the overhead of R/D, hemi
is showing up all over. Its just too bad that I don't by imports,
won't buy a Ford or Chysler, so I'll just take good care of my 99
while the General sleeps.