Joeyofblades

iTrader: (2)

Lets talk build a little. When do you do your torque converter and why? I have people telling me to put a 3800 stall on a non built 4l60e now with stock engine. I have others saying wait until after heads cam intake and built transmission. I'm curious as to why there's a difference in opinion.

Background Info: 1998 4l60e trans am. Stock engine and trans. 10 bolt will have 3.73s and a girdle. Will get a tune when gears are installed. Plan is heads cam intake... The 3800 stall was assuming I go for a custom grind 228R from the tuner who supplied the build with TrickFlow 215 as cast heads. But I may also lean toward 799 heads and get a custom grind for them instead and thus need a different cam. I've heard the converter should match the cam hence you do the converter after the cam.

MonmouthCtyLS7

iTrader: (6)

As long as you have all your bolt ons get the stall. Probably one of the biggest gains for a lightly modded auto car. Plan on grabbing a set of drag radials as well.

Joeyofblades

iTrader: (2)

I have:
TSP 1 7/8" Stainless Headers
TSP 3" ORY
Borla Quad Tip Open Flange
Poly/Rod LCA
Poly/Poly Panhard
SLP Lid
A/C Delete
TruCool 4490 Trans Cooler
Energy End Links

I am doing this stuff soon:
Subframe Connectors
CTSV1 Brembos Front
3.73 gears
Tune

I will be doing this stuff by end of summer:
Drag radials
Strano Springs / Bistein Shocks (if he ever gets them in stock... Been waiting 6 weeks)
Line lock

If I get a converter now, say the 3800 my tuner suggested for my end build. Will I need to change converters after the build is done? What if I decide to do 799 heads instead of TFS 215s? I will likely need a different cam than the tuner originally planned so I'm guessing the converter wouldn't match the new cam id need and therefore I would need to switch converters?

MonmouthCtyLS7

iTrader: (6)

The 3800 you plan on will work fine w/ most cams (if not all). The heads you choose have nothing to do with your stall speed...sounds like you need to educate yourself a bit, you'll get all the information you need here...as for using the search function your better off just typing your question into google then trying here.

Joeyofblades

iTrader: (2)

Thanks. I'm talking to a few different tuners and some friends just good to get more opinions. Like I said I have some people in each corner right now and just curious why the difference in opinion. If anyone else has anything feel free to post, I'm still scoping out the build and doing my bolt ons so I need all the ideas and education I can get. I'll google around but always appreciate direct responses and opinions - sometimes I find myself reading threads 10 years old with outdated information so I like to keep my discussions current.

MonmouthCtyLS7

iTrader: (6)

Outdated info or not its the same motor it was 10 years ago, your also not doing anything unheard of. Opinions are like ******** learn for yourself. You make it like your building a space shuttle lol, its a heads cam setup, call a vendor from here and have them lead you in the right direction.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

if you can wait get everything done at once and have it so everything works good together. a TC is a must to get the most out of your set up.


these trans dont like to reved high or a ton of power so plan on rebuild at some point. but in the meantime you should invest in added cooling. in addition to a cooler id get a deeper pan. b@M makes a nice one. also consider a shift kit

heres some helpful info.

http://etereman.com/blog/racing-tran...e-transmission


have fun.

Joeyofblades

iTrader: (2)

I plan on doing the whole valvetrain at once. But anything I can get done beforehand to spread out the cost yet remain daily-able (such as gears) can knock out when I get these gears done. Daily on a 3800 stall and 3.73s lololol

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

you never mentioned exactly/specifically what brand/model 3800 stall ?

3800/3.73s' daily LOLOLOL ? How about my daily SS3600/4.56s' !

A daily with 3.73s' and 3600-4000 stall is common occurrence around this forum.

Joeyofblades

iTrader: (2)

Was gauging reaction to see how much I'll hate myself after build is done lol. Glad it won't be that bad. Can't have a daily yet because no house...

Jeff wrote FTI SRL 9.5" lockup converter, 3800 stall and 2.48 STR. Going to research what those numbers mean but I specified the car was a daily so he knew what he was making a build for.

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

2.48 STR is a relatively tight stall,2.25 STR would be 'looser'. Lock-up convertor will be good for freeway cruising. 3800 is what it'll 'flash' to when enough torque is applied(the happy pedal).

A higher stall will allow the engine to jump into a better part of the powerband instead of having to climb to it.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I would skip the 3.73s and put that money towards the stall swap now. 3500 stall should be considered the minimum for even a stock LS1, IMO. The 3800 will still serve you well with the proposed build. The stock trans will be fine for quite some time at stock power levels/shift points, even with a bigger stall, as long as it wasn't already highly worn/on it's last leg and as long as you keep temps down with a cooler. The higher rpm shift points that will be required to take advantage of the cam swap, combined with the power increase of the H/C build, will take a greater toll on your trans than anything else; I would prepare for a performance build at that point.

Gear swaps from 2.73 or 3.23 up to 3.73 won't do much to help ET once you have a 3500+ stall speed already in place; expect no more than 0.1-0.15 seconds of ET reduction doing so. A 3.73 swap is worth much more with a stock stall (but still only half as much as a proper stall upgrade by itself), but if you plan to upgrade stall speed anyway then the gears are really only worth it if you find yourself bothered by the "looseness" of the higher stall. Some people barely notice this, or just simply aren't bothered by it (I'm in that group), while others don't like the feel with stock gears. For the cost of a gear swap, and the fact there is little to be gained from said swap once you have a 3500+ stall speed with a 4L60E/LS1 combo, I would always recommend doing the stall first and then finding out which group you're in. You can always do the gears later if you find yourself bothered at all by the looseness, and if not you can save that cash for something else.

Joeyofblades

iTrader: (2)

Could you explain loose vs tight stall converter? Yeah the lockup part wasn't for debate... I need my highway cruising. But I may change my mind and ask Jeff about a looser stall depending on what the benefits would be.

I haven't gotten the car tuned yet. I did already buy the gears though. I can save another two weeks for a stall and have that and the gears done at the same time since I'm going for my first tune anyway. Car has 50k miles and never been ragged on so stock transmission should be fine. I have a 12"x11" trucool hooked directly to the trans and sitting on the middle of the radiator. Car has no condenser because a/c delete so airflow is excellent.

As long as transmission will be fine ill go get the big stall now and have whoever installs gears do that too, then tune the car.

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

Which gears/brand did you acquire ?
Gears have a couple benefits other than the 'go' factor. You never mentioned if you're currently 2.73 or 3.23,but in either case,3.73s' will make a stall feel tighter. It won't change the stall rpm/flash rpm. AND since the 3.73 gearset now provides a better mechanical advantage in getting the car moving,everything forward of the gears sees less stress. Engine,convertor,tranny,u-joints,driveshaft.
A 'loose' stall feels like it takes too much RPMs' to get the car moving. I've seen TCI 3000 streetfighter stalls that were looser than a Yank SS4000 stall. TCI off the shelf inexpensive stall vs custom stalls from Yank,CircleD,FTI. You get what you pay for.
This thread should have been started in the auto trans section,you would have gotten a lot more responses. Check those threads out.

Joeyofblades

iTrader: (2)

Motive 3.73s sitting on my bed. Coming from a 2.73. I'm getting the stall first and doing gears at a later time. My tuner recommends it. Thanks for the help. And yes I'm still getting used to ls1techs forum architecture. Any idea where the torque specs thread is for a 98 trans am? Doing brembos tomorrow and need specs for caliper bracket bolts ... Thanks! I've been trying to search for it but I guess the terms "torque spec" are too general and give me 1 million results. I thought it would be stickies in the firebird specific section but I guess not... It must be a sticky somewhere else?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

There are disadvantages to gears as well. Depending on brand and quality of install, you may find yourself with gear whine that didn't exist before, and rears that have had gear swaps also seem to be a bit more prone to breakage (again, could be a quality of gears/install issue, or that certain ratios are just weaker due to tooth count.) There is also a bit of a MPG penalty at highway speeds, since rpms will always be higher at a given speed. What's nice about the higher stall is that although it will affect city MPG, once you reach lock-up rpms are the same as stock so MPG on the highway remains the same.

Not sure if there is any truth to the argument that the increased mechanical advantage does anything significant to reduce drivetrain "stress". However, the higher numeric ratio will increase engine speed at any given vehicle cruising speed, which has the effect of putting greater wear on the engine at said speed (vs. lower numeric ratio at the same cruising speed.) In other words, I would call this a wash.

The biggest advantage, again, is having the effect of making a higher stall feel "tighter", but this is a non-issue for some people, especially with a good quality torque converter like some of the brands mentioned above.

Joeyofblades

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for explaining it to me. I will be getting a stall put in soon and a shift kit too. I think I have a pretty good grasp on this stuff now and feel confident. It will take some getting used to but it'll probably feel like a whole new car hehe.