mattkimsey

Why was Gm's quality so bad for the fbody? I like my fbody but, I hear a lot of people complaining about various things. I don't think I've heard of any other sporty type car having as many quality issues.

Some of the problems are:

-bent pushrods
-piston slap
-oil consumption
-warped brake rotors
-slow windows
-leaky t-tops
-10 bolt
-cracked paint (on front of cars)
-poor interior quality
-hatch dosent pop open well

If the Camaro comes back later on, I hope GM puts more emphasis on quality. It may help them sell more cars next time.

BlueSix

-bent pushrods
Would you rather your valves hit the piston when you miss a shift?

-piston slap
trivial problem, it's gone after the engine is warm

-oil consumption
Never had an LS1 drink any oil, there's a lot that have consumption, but a lot more that don't

-warped brake rotors
Break them in right and that doesn't happen

-slow windows
Power windows are a luxury, would you rather have crank? Cause power was an option not a mandate

-leaky t-tops
Only if you don't take care of the seals

-10 bolt
I'll give you that one.

-cracked paint (on front of cars)
Never had this problem. Only heard of it on higher mileage cars....paint doesn't last forever.

-poor interior quality
Want a bimmer interior with f body power? buy a GTO.

-hatch dosent pop open well
Then adjust the stops.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Very few people have ALL of those problems. Some people have one or two issues, but that's true about any car, and many are due to misuse or owner abuse/neglect. If cars never broke, then dealers wouldn't have entire service bays full of techs, tools, and cars (of all types).

Thing is, most of the people on this board have these cars (f-bodies), and any time you have a high concentration of people owning one type of car the issues are going to come up more often. Plus, people don't make posts like "Another 10,000 miles without an issue, this car is GREAT!", because that is what's expected of the car. But when something does go wrong, people post to ask questions about determining what the issue is, how to fix it, or complaining about the hard time they're having with it.

Personally, I've had 1 3rd gen and 3 4th gen F-bodies. The only "quality" issue I ever had was a tinking driveshaft on my '99 Z28. Otherwise, my F-bodies have been the best cars I've ever owned. Other problems I've had with them I've tracked down to being direct results of the modifications I've performed. I Can't blame GM for that.

For the money, I think F-bodies were very high quality. IMO.

mattkimsey

I'd hate to start an argument but I don't hear of newer 99+ Mustangs having as many quality issues. The 99 Cobra was low on power but Ford fix it for free.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

And I agree with all of this, except the 10-bolt part. I've never had an M6 F-body so I concede that 10-bolt breakage is a much bigger issue for those guys. But for the A4 cars, I don't really see any issue with the rearend (to a point). I've had 1.6x & 1.7x 60 foots in my old WS6, plus many street launches on sticky tires with a FULL factory weight. Rear never broke. My opinion? If you can get rid of wheel hop totally, and you have an A4 car that you don't plan to see better than high 1.6/low 1.7 short times, the rear will be just fine for a long time. Just my experiance.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I've never had a mustang of any kind, so I can't speak there. But what I can say is, I've had 13 different cars so far in life and none of them have been any better/more reliable/better quality, power, or options per dollar than my four F-bodies.

2MuchRiceMakesMeSick

Me too. The 10 bolts arent built up to take alot of HP. Most of them do ok on a completely stock car. Unless the guy is dumping the clutch with slicks. It just wasnt designed for that. With that said...its still junk.

hepcatws6

If we were so inclined we could make a similar list for any auto manufacturer you like. By the way, I noticed that you sold one GM and have a 99 model now. If you feel that GM makes such inferior quality products why did you purchase the second one? Also, there is no law prohibiting you from selling your 99 fbody and purchasing a 99+ mustang.

BlkZ28LS6

iTrader: (1)

I've seen 1.4X 60 foots with stock 10 bolt on a 50,000 mile Z many times. A4 of course, but it is still impressive IMO. I agree with RPM WS6 totally. What more do you expect out of it? It is not made from the factory to handle added power, huge stalls and ET Streets. With that in mind, I dont see how you could complain. An M6 with stock 10 bolt is reliable for sub 2.00 60 foots as well.

mattkimsey

-bent pushrods
Would you rather your valves hit the piston when you miss a shift?

No, but would it hurt to have stronger pushrods from the factory? I mean people have bent pushrods with relativly stock cars.

-piston slap
trivial problem, it's gone after the engine is warm

but it's still an obvious problem which could have been prevented.....I've heard of some cars that do it even after thew car is warm.(sounds like a diesel)

-oil consumption
Never had an LS1 drink any oil, there's a lot that have consumption, but a lot more that don't

Considering how many fbodies were made, if just 5% did burn oil, it seems like a problem which shouldn't happen.

-warped brake rotors
Break them in right and that doesn't happen

Seems like it happens a lot and people replace the rotors with aftermarket ones.

-slow windows
Power windows are a luxury, would you rather have crank? Cause power was an option not a mandate

I wouldn't call it a luxury when the windows don't go up and dowm properly.

-leaky t-tops
Only if you don't take care of the seals

What about newer cars that still have the problem without worn out seals.

-10 bolt
I'll give you that one.



-cracked paint (on front of cars)
Never had this problem. Only heard of it on higher mileage cars....paint doesn't last forever.

Almost every fbody I've ever seen has had little spider web lines in the paint.

-poor interior quality
Want a bimmer interior with f body power? buy a GTO.

GTO wasn't available untill 04

mattkimsey

I like the way fbodies look better. Ford quality + LS1&t56 would make the perfect car i guess

unit213

LS1 fbodies gave you 300rwhp stock for around $20K when new. I say quit bitching.

BlueSix

No, but would it hurt to have stronger pushrods from the factory? I mean people have bent pushrods with relativly stock cars.
-show me one instance of bent pushrods that resulted from something other than a mechanical overrev (I.E. mis shift)


but it's still an obvious problem which could have been prevented.....I've heard of some cars that do it even after thew car is warm.(sounds like a diesel)
-I know what it sounds like, my GTO slaps until warm. I think it's been determined that the ones that "slap" while warm are actually ticking because of the oil pump gasket. It's a high performance engine that is built slightly "loose" it's bound to make some noises


Considering how many fbodies were made, if just 5% did burn oil, it seems like a problem which shouldn't happen.
-Show me one model of car that has never had consumption issues and i'll let you have this one.


Seems like it happens a lot and people replace the rotors with aftermarket ones.
-that doesn't mean the stockers are of a bad build quality....we replace the cam in these cars very often...does that mean the cam is of bad quality? or do we just want better performance?

I wouldn't call it a luxury when the windows don't go up and dowm properly.
-there's a difference between going up and down slow and going up and down properly. Ours are just slow.


What about newer cars that still have the problem without worn out seals.
-there's a "channel" in the seals....if you don't line it up properly they will leak. Take car of them and watch what you are doing when you put them back on and you wont have problems.


Almost every fbody I've ever seen has had little spider web lines in the paint.
-never seen that before, ever.


GTO wasn't available untill 04
-But it is available now...did you start this thread today or 3 years ago?

Wild85

iTrader: (1)

Now that you are on the topic of rwhp. The LS1 was advertised at 320hp, now that i am sure is for insurance. But did Ls1's make 300 wheel hp for real?

hepcatws6

I am not going to dispute that Ford is a fine automaker. However...they have their problems as well. I have a 94 Tbird with 194,000 miles on it. It has been a great car (I am going to be selling it soon). I bought it from my friend who replaced the transmission prior to 123,000 miles. After I bought it I had to replace the radiator fan and the computer. My father-in-laws Escape has been recalled at least twice that I know of. Recent news reveals that there were major problems with some of the motors being put in 05 Ford vehicles, including the GT. Also, there was a massive recall of Ford vehicles from the early 2000's becasue they had defective cruise controls which were a serious fire hazard. I am not badmouthing Fords, only stating facts. I do not feel that Ford or GM is superior and I respect them both. I may even buy another Ford when I replace my Tbird.

hepcatws6

I talked to Patman about it and then did some research of my own. According to various sources the hp on the Fbody LS1's were closer to 340hp which means GM did underrate it for different reasons.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Ford quality?? You've got to be kidding ... maybe the Cobra was ok. As for the 10 bolt, it may come as a suprise to some of us that GM didn't necessarily build the car to be taken to the track every weekend and endure 5000rpm clutch dumps. Same for running hi-stall converters, overheating the brakes, and a lot of the other things many of us do. Given the punishment we dish out to our cars, it's surprising they hold up as well as they do. Now as for power window motors, hidden headlamp motors, you're on to something there ...

hepcatws6

I still had the private message from Patman in my inbox. Here it is...

"Back in late 97/early 98 we figured it out since so many LS1s were running quarter mile times just as quick as the Corvettes, which were rated at 345hp. At first, many of us thought that only the earliest production LS1 f-bodies were getting these stronger motors, but soon people began getting their later built cars dynoed and found they put out over 300 horsepower at the wheels, making it's power at the engine closer to 350. My old 98 Formula dynoed 288rwhp in stock trim (on a 90F day at an outdoor dyno), which works out to about 330-340hp at the engine."

BlueSix

[QUOTE=Wild85]Now that you are on the topic of rwhp. The LS1 was advertised at 320hp, now that i am sure is for insurance. But did Ls1's make 300 wheel hp for real?[/QUOTE

Considering it's the exact same engine that was put in the 'vette i'd sure as hell hope it made 300 at the wheels.

Yes, most LS1's dyno right at 300 to the wheels in stock form.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

On average, Ford quality is right on par with GM quality.

Anyway, what is the point of this thread? Just to bash a car that you already own? If you dislike it, as hepcatws6 said just sell it to someone that will like it.

Either you expect way too much from your cars, or you've just had some bad experiances with your F-body. If the later is the case, then why did you buy a second one? And if the first one was fine and the second one is giving you all these problems, then doesn't that tell you that not all of them are like this?