LS1Z2800

I know we all have heard about the 03/04 Cobras and the sick power these powerplants make with simple mods like pulley swaps, chip and tune. Besides going to a power adder or forced induction system that would include a supercharger, turbocharger or even nitrous, is it even possible to mod a natural aspirated LS1 to make the same amount of power or more a modded 03/04 Cobra would make with the similar mods listed above. If so what would be the route to go?
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2000 NBM Z28 A4, Y3000 stall, whisper lid, borla exhaust

300bhp/ton

What mods listed above?

A good h/c 346ci Ls1 will make similar HP to a bolt on pulley Cobra. If they get the blower ported then over 500rwhp is possible.

However, because they have a PD blower they will make more power more of the time and quite a bit more torque.

Sadly you can't really compare the enignes like this. FI is just a way of increasing effective displacement, i.e. it gets more air into the combustion chamber. The Ls1 simply has more displacement and it's affective displacement is the same as its physical.

The DOHC Cobra motor is very good, large and heavy maybe but it's strong and comes built from the factory. That means it will hold well over 600rwhp on stock internals.

A LS1 isn't going to survive for long at the same HP level without replacing the internals.

As for outright HP. Well the LSx engines ALWAYS have the displacement advantage. However due to DOHC technology and curtain area the Ford motor can achieve a better specific output (higher state of tune) and still be driveable and reliable for street use.

Ultimatley the displacement of the LSx will see it on top but it's amazing how close the DOHC 4.6 can run it. Of course if you start talking 402, 408 or 427ci Lsx then the mod motor doesn't really have anything to come back with.

The 5.4 from the GT is good and running 100 octane with TT's can make over 800rwhp on the stock long block. A 346ci Lsx would struggle to top that figure even with 0.3 litre extra displacement.

slow trap

iTrader: (22)

with every mod including a big cam, very free flowing heads,90/90 and all the other suporting mods the positive displacement of the supercharger will still come out on top.look what kind of tq they put out at low rpms and they still match our hp on the top end with simple mods like a pulley and tune only.and then if you run into one with a ported blower and all the suporting mods they will really have the power advantage.ford did a great job by putting a s/c on the cobras,only down side is the weight disadvantage.

PREDATOR-Z

Guys wipe out your tears please, you make me wanna

Why not comparing Britney Spears to Opra while you are at it. The answer is really simple put a supercharger on the LS1 and it will match the Ford output and more. Forge the LS1 and then Supercharge it and Ford better go wipe their panties.

Have you ever read a Modified Mustangs mag? 2 pages of mods and running 12s in the 1/4

when we mod, WE MOD 422 cid+ with 400 shot and into the 8s

300bhp/ton

lol

But Terminators are 12 second rides straight out the factory.

422ci and 400 shot but it's a lot of $$$$$$

mike#9

iTrader: (3)

They are also more expensive then a F-body brand new as well. If the extra 4-5K was put into forged internals..maybe S/C from factory..then the ls1 will rule all!! PERIOD

Not equal playing fields for either one of the cars though.

300bhp/ton

I don't deny that at all. I mean I do own a LS1 of my own free choice.

But the 4.6, espcially the DOHC 4.6 isn't anywhere near as bad as many make it out to be. It carries all the inherant traits and advantages of a multivalve engine. On such aspects the Ls1 being a OHV 2 valve can not compeat so it simply uses it's displacement advantage instead.

But the DOHC Ford is not the pinnicle of OHC tech.

I'd love to see someone take a 427ci LSx and convert it to a DOHC setup. It would still be small and lightweight (ok a tad bigger than a OHV Lsx but not by much) but would produce insane HP due to having the advantages of multivalve drivetrain. You could have a cam setup as tame and torque as stock in the bottom rpms while being wilder than a Trex in the uppers.

texada

iTrader: (3)

Those cobras when modded are no joke! I saw a cobra last week at Evadale, TX with and auto transmission, ported stock blower and bolt ons run 10.4 - 10.5 from 125 to 128 all night long. Also, they had another guy out there with a 03 CONVERTIBLE running 10.5's - 10.7's from 136-139 plus he had a 100 shot of nitrous that he wasn't even spraying. If this guy switched to an automatic, he would definitely have a 9 second car that he can drive to and from the track. I love my LSX's, but some of you guys need to get out of denial. You can mod this and mod that and make anything fast. I know even when I build my 402-427 I will still need a good dose of nitrous to stay ahead of the fast ones like I stated above.

PREDATOR-Z

there is no denial !

Those 10s cars are not on stock block, and if they are, they wont last long.
For 10>11K you can forge and supercharge a LSx stock cubes and do the same if not more. Look at LPE twin turbo setups with 650rwhp on stock blocks, forged the sky is the limit. I've personaly seen 1000+ rwhp twin turbo setups with 72 size hairdryers on iron blocks.

Go read the cam only section and that is no bull and without FI. Big cam and high stall with driveline mods and major weight loss.

apples to apples please.
NA the 4.6 is POS and any FORD modder will tell you that. FI we would still surpass them, because no matter how much they try, we can always go BIGGER.

Matt2105

iTrader: (4)

Yes they are, and yes they will.

ScottyDoesntKnow

Coming from a guy who owns a Mustang I will say that yes the NA 4.6s are pretty pathetic especially with the crap internals they get from Ford. The motor in the terminator is a whole different animal. Iron block, 8.5:1 compression, forged internals and the blower is just disgusting. Terminator owners can spend between 1 and 2k and have a 500whp car that is quite tame on the street and will beat up on just about anything in a straight line. With that said I have been very disillusioned with Ford lately and I think my next toy is going to be something with LSX power. Probably a FC or FD converted over.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

well, we all know what these freaky engines are capable of. but aside from forced induction, what kind of setup would atleast be needed to keep up with one?

ReLs1pect

get you a 408, and some turbos. then you should be ok!

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

man, u would own all with that!!

4.6gt-2-ls1ta

iTrader: (3)

(there is no denial !

Those 10s cars are not on stock block, and if they are, they wont last long.
For 10>11K you can forge and supercharge a LSx stock cubes and do the same if not more. Look at LPE twin turbo setups with 650rwhp on stock blocks, forged the sky is the limit. I've personaly seen 1000+ rwhp twin turbo setups with 72 size hairdryers on iron blocks.

Go read the cam only section and that is no bull and without FI. Big cam and high stall with driveline mods and major weight loss.

apples to apples please.
NA the 4.6 is POS and any FORD modder will tell you that. FI we would still surpass them, because no matter how much they try, we can always go BIGGER.)


I am sorry to say that you my friend need to get out of your dillusional world and go watch some modded Cobras those times are easily and completely attainable with a stock block Cobra motor. And about your apples to apples a na 4.6 is not the same as a na LSx, but that aside the main question was what was needed to run w/a modded Cobra w/a NA LSX. Oh and I own a LS1 WS-6, have modded an 03 Cobra and used to have a 03 GT (na 4.6) so I do know the motors!

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

when we ran Eastern F-Body Association vs. Mid-Atlantic Cobra Association there was no clear advantage on the ford side, in fact they lost every class, of course we were running indexes so it was alot more even, but for every f-body being N/A with the exception of the few outlaw nitrous cars from glen burnie, and every ford being blown 03/04 or not i'd say the f-bodies did pretty good.

ChrisUlrich

Wow dude... you should really re-think your words.

Honestly... this is crap I would hear from Honda Civic owners. Take the money saved from buying a F Body and put it into a motor/tranny/axels/turbo... haha Come on man. Stay on topic. Once you start modding, it's anyones game.

There is a dude that was on the SVT Site that makes just about 1000whp and street races religiously. Another bought the car, bought a Hellion Turbo setup. Now he runs mid 10s @ 131. Rest of car is bone stock.

The 4.6 Cobra motor n/a isn't a POS. The motor is build for FI!! The Mach 1 is a great motor and similar mods to a LS1 put out similar numbers. Now I said similar... not as much or more. You gotta think within reason and you have to compare apples to apples.

You can't hold a pricetag over the Cobra. The Cobra motor stock vs stock is just better. You can take the stock components and make more power/easier with a much more streetable conclusion for cheaper.

But for a n/a LS1 to hang with a modded Cobra... that's a vague statement. If you mean a bolton Cobra (Pulley, intake, exhaust, tune) you're talking big cam or mediocre heads/cam setup. Bolton cars are trapping in/near 120s.

1997bird

iTrader: (2)

A old friend of mine is a big time Ford MUFFstain boy. He has a 03 Ford Cobra Saleen that has been modified very heavily(will not tell anybody what all he has done to it). His dad has millions of dollars and gives Cody whatever he pretty much wants. Well to the point, he just got his A** handed to him by a 06' Duramax diesel this last weekend not once but three times. Yes the mustang can make horsepower, they have to. They are overweight and can't transfer the weight very well. Look at the new GT500 MUFFstain, 480 hp and could only muster a 12.9 quarter. The stock C6 'vette' runs a 12.5 quarter with 346 rwhp & 341 rwtq. Superior design doesn't mean you have to have more HP.

ChrisUlrich

GT500's run faster times then 12.9 dude... 10.4s with boltons, gears, and 9"

EDIT: People have different ideas on what's Heavily Modified. Some guy told me that his gears, catback, intake, and Pro 5.0 2000 SS is heavily modified.

1997bird

iTrader: (2)

Then why can you mod a GT5000(oops a GT500) and not a LS1 in this comparison. Or better yet, why to the different magizine's out there have to mod the Ford Mustangs to keep with everybody else? I live in a town full of Mustang owners(I literally see about 3 out of 5 cars this way) and they still have a hard time with "bolt ons" to keep up with 1957 chevy technology. But boy do they have excuses!! Oh yea, one more thing everybody here has a 10 second ride, just ask them. Farmington, NM